New Cruising Guidelines Issued by EU

[navybankerteacher]

43 minutes ago, RJB said:

Still has to fit right or it will be of little use.   Everyone should be able to get a proper mask so we all can be protected. 

Your talking about “little use”, and your earlier post mentioning “experts” saying  a “...piece of cloth does no good to protect anybody” - is the sort of blather which too many ignorant, selfish, anti-social people use to justify their disinclination to wear anything.

 

ANY face covering is better than nothing. Why not urge the use of effective face covering rather than saying “don’t do anything because what you feel like doing doesn’t help you”?

 

It is a matter of if you are not with us, you are against us.  When you nod at irresponsible behavior, you make yourself part of the problem.

Edited July 22, 2020 by navybankerteacher

[clo]

1 hour ago, RJB said:

Still has to fit right or it will be of little use.

Could you please provide a citation that says "little use."

[clo]

44 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

I never said people shouldn’t wear masks, so to protect others. I certainly do when I go out in public.

 

Educated opinions don’t make science. That takes a process! We’ve seen a lot of educated opinions about the usefulness of certain drugs. All purely opinion, not science yet! 

So should nothing be done for a few years until it's all done and the data completely analyzed? You're neither a doctor nor a scientist, are you?

[clo]

24 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

ANY face covering is better than nothing.

Bob went to the hardware store the other day to pick up one small item. When he got there he realized he hadn't brought his mask. He covered his nose and mouth with a paper napkin, apologized to the guy, quickly got what he needed and left. Had he been doing 'real' shopping he'd have returned home to get his mask.

[Paulchili]

54 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Educated opinions don’t make science. That takes a process! We’ve seen a lot of educated opinions about the usefulness of certain drugs. All purely opinion, not science yet! 

The "science" about COVID is a developing thing. There is obviously a lot more that we do NOT know about this virus than what we DO know and what we do know now changes in time as we gather more data and learn from it.

The science knows all there is to know about gall bladder stones and disorders and how to treat them. That is not the case yet for COVID but that doesn't mean we should not call it science. It is a learning curve and in time we'll have a lot more answers that may differ from what science recommends today but it is science.

I would rather wear masks, keep social distancing and wash my hands frequently - as recommended by the scientists today - and if sick take Remdesivir and Dexamethasone instead of Hydroxychloroquine or IV Lysol or ultraviolet light enema as recommended by some others.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Paulchili

[basor]

I thought that all COVID-19 discussions were going to stay off cruise topics and instead be posted on the COVID-19 topic....this topic, as so many others, has disintegrated into back and forth arguments about mask wearing., etc.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, basor said:

I thought that all COVID-19 discussions were going to stay off cruise topics and instead be posted on the COVID-19 topic....this topic, as so many others, has disintegrated into back and forth arguments about mask wearing., etc.

That is the general idea but people are people and sometimes post a bit off topic (most of us are guilty of this - perhaps not you).

When I see a post that I strongly disagree with (like about COVID) I feel compelled to reply to it even though it is not on the correct thread. 

There is no easy way that I know of how to transfer that post to the COVID thread so that I could answer it there.

[pinotlover]

2 hours ago, clo said:

So should nothing be done for a few years until it's all done and the data completely analyzed? You're neither a doctor nor a scientist, are you?

Chemistry and Math by undergraduate degree. While I may often follow the advisements of scientific opinion, I never confuse that opinion with proven science, it’s still opinion.

 

As to the argument of value of use, while the rhythm method may be “ better than nothing”, I typically don’t recommend its use in favor of something more substantial. 😂 Better than nothing is a very low bar and only opinion at this

point.

[clo]

24 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

That is the general idea but people are people and sometimes post a bit off topic (most of us are guilty of this - perhaps not you).

When I see a post that I strongly disagree with (like about COVID) I feel compelled to reply to it even though it is not on the correct thread. 

There is no easy way that I know of how to transfer that post to the COVID thread so that I could answer it there.

Well, er, this thread is BECAUSE of COVID, right? We wouldn't need any new guidelines otherwise.

[clo]

15 minutes ago, pinotlover said:

Chemistry and Math by undergraduate degree. While I may often follow the advisements of scientific opinion, I never confuse that opinion with proven science, it’s still opinion.

 

As to the argument of value of use, while the rhythm method may be “ better than nothing”, I typically don’t recommend its use in favor of something more substantial. 😂 Better than nothing is a very low bar and only opinion at this

point.

So again, should the US be doing nothing?

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, pinotlover said:

As to the argument of value of use, while the rhythm method may be “ better than nothing”, I typically don’t recommend its use in favor of something more substantial. 😂 Better than nothing is a very low bar and only opinion at this

point.

A very poor comparison. While I agree with your statement about that other matter, for COVID there are opinions that are very specific and for now are the best and only way to prevent the virus.

At the moment these are not opinions - they are the Holy Grail (until we find more effective ways)

There are no alternative opinions to choose from - this is it for now until we'll have the "pill" (unlike your example that has proven methods that are more effective).

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Paulchili

[blacksmith]

Sticking with the chosen analogy, abstinence would be a 100% effective solution.
Well, not many of us are willing to “shelter in place “ so we look for guidance regarding an alternative.
Pardon the sports analogy, but if you wanted to learn how to throw a football would you listen to John Elway or a politician?


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[RJB]

22 hours ago, ORV said:

Or perhaps he's saying something you agree with, then it makes sense to you. Doesn't make it right. 

Sure if I agree with it than it makes sense to me.  About 99% of what is written on these boards are opinions of the posters.  And it makes sense to them. 

[ORV]

33 minutes ago, RJB said:

About 99% of what is written on these boards are opinions of the posters

Well, that would be your opinion, which I don't happen to agree with. 

[Paulchili]

28 minutes ago, ORV said:

Well, that would be your opinion, which I don't happen to agree with. 

Exactly.

Some are indeed just opinions without any substantiating or supporting facts; others are opinions that have references from authorities on the subject and thus are not just statements from the poster.

[RJB]

18 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Exactly.

Some are indeed just opinions without any substantiating or supporting facts; others are opinions that have references from authorities on the subject and thus are not just statements from the poster.

yes, and some of the so called authorities disagree with each other. Sometimes it is hard to know which of the competing authorities is right.  Tough times, but will get better.

[pinotlover]

1 hour ago, RJB said:

yes, and some of the so called authorities disagree with each other. Sometimes it is hard to know which of the competing authorities is right.  Tough times, but will get better.

+1. A lot of opinions and very little science!

[Hawaiidan]

7 hours ago, RJB said:

yes, and some of the so called authorities disagree with each other. Sometimes it is hard to know which of the competing authorities is right.  Tough times, but will get better.

At this date of time  everything can be put in to the  either  possibilities or Probabilities  all of which are not actual FULLY  factual  only the best current guess  based on the moment . To take a quote from the Andromeda Strain.....( "601" )

[Paulchili]

27 minutes ago, Hawaiidan said:

At this date of time  everything can be put in to the  either  possibilities or Probabilities  all of which are not actual FULLY  factual  only the best current guess  based on the moment . To take a quote from the Andromeda Strain.....( "601" )

Nevertheless, we must do something. The best thing we can do is follow the recommendations of recognized experts - like Dr. Fauci. That is far better than doing nothing or whatever any individual decides for themselves because as far as they are concerned nobody knows anything for sure so why follow anyone's advice.

That is why we are where we are.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Paulchili

[clo]

9 hours ago, pinotlover said:

+1. A lot of opinions and very little science!

Well, this isn't a science site. There's loads of science out there.

[RJB]

16 hours ago, Paulchili said:

Nevertheless, we must do something. The best thing we can do is follow the recommendations of recognized experts - like Dr. Fauci. That is far better than doing nothing or whatever any individual decides for themselves because as far as they are concerned nobody knows anything for sure so why follow anyone's advice.

That is why we are where we are.

Problem is the recommendations keep changing every week or two.  And the so called recognized experts are not always in sync.  Still a guess.

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, RJB said:

Problem is the recommendations keep changing every week or two.  And the so called recognized experts are not always in sync.  Still a guess.

You are mistaken.

There are 3 things they have recommended from the beginning - wash your hands frequently, social distancing and face covering.

Easy enough to follow. If this had been made MANDATORY in all 50 states on Jan 31 when WHO declared this a pandemic, we would be where the rest of the civilized world is now with far fewer deaths and little damage to economy. We chose option B - do whatever you want, the virus will disappear like magic.

Unfortunately, too many people believed that.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Paulchili

[clo]

2 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

You are mistaken.

There are 3 things they have recommended from the beginning - wash your hands frequently, social distancing and face covering.

Easy enough to follow.

Yep. I remember Dr. Fauci saying that he hoped that people never go back to shaking hands.

[Issyalex]

On 7/6/2020 at 6:06 PM, ORV said:

Someone here is going to love that age segregation thing. I see lawsuits. 

Lawsuits? Why? If you know what is happening before you cruise then surely there’s no basis to sue? Or is it because I’m Scottish that I’d never think of suing! 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Issyalex]

On 7/6/2020 at 7:11 PM, Paulchili said:

..and if one does have one then the whole EU should.

The U.K. has age discrimination laws.