November 6th 2020 Cruise August Deposit Can Be Paid Four weeks Before Holiday

[No pager thank you]

I wonder if this has something to do with Oceana leaving the fleet.

 

So far, P&O have been steadfast about the 3 month rule, winding up a lot of customers unnecessarily and causing themselves more work to do with processing refunds.  About time for a change.

 

The benefit, from a P&O perspective, of doing this, is that they can potentially avoid giving out too many 125% FCCs on full balances, as opposed to just deposits.  There could be a calculation that the benefits of cash flow are being outweighed now by deteriorating customer sentiment and adverse PR I.e. MSE survey....or....

 

Could be just the usual inconsistency caused by speaking to P&O staff member A versus P&O staff member B.  Left foot, right foot etc.  I'll bet on the latter for now, but take advantage of you get through to the 4 week person!

[molecrochip]

11 hours ago, No pager thank you said:

I wonder if this has something to do with Oceana leaving the fleet.

 

So far, P&O have been steadfast about the 3 month rule, winding up a lot of customers unnecessarily and causing themselves more work to do with processing refunds.  About time for a change.

 

The benefit, from a P&O perspective, of doing this, is that they can potentially avoid giving out too many 125% FCCs on full balances, as opposed to just deposits.  There could be a calculation that the benefits of cash flow are being outweighed now by deteriorating customer sentiment and adverse PR I.e. MSE survey....or....

 

Could be just the usual inconsistency caused by speaking to P&O staff member A versus P&O staff member B.  Left foot, right foot etc.  I'll bet on the latter for now, but take advantage of you get through to the 4 week person!

We know that there is an update to investors/market tomorrow.

 

So far this week, Oceana has left, Carnival has reshuffled some deployments for Jan-May 2021 and Princess have reshuffled some deployments through September 2021.

 

This seems to suggest that affairs are being put in order before the October 15 minus three months point. I wonder if there will be an update later this week to change final payment dates.

 

With this in mind, I'll predict this. Iona's first passenger cruise will be after October. *I'll run and hide now*

[Adawn47]

20 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

We know that there is an update to investors/market tomorrow.

 

So far this week, Oceana has left, Carnival has reshuffled some deployments for Jan-May 2021 and Princess have reshuffled some deployments through September 2021.

 

This seems to suggest that affairs are being put in order before the October 15 minus three months point. I wonder if there will be an update later this week to change final payment dates.

 

With this in mind, I'll predict this. Iona's first passenger cruise will be after October. *I'll run and hide now*

Do you think you're crystal ball would be able to help this little old lady and "suggest/guess" if there's any liklihood at all of Arcadia leaving for her November 6th 2020 cruise? ☺

Avril 

Edited July 9, 2020 by Adawn47

[terrierjohn]

7 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Do you think you're crystal ball would be able to help this little old lady and "suggest/guess" if there's any liklihood at all of Arcadia leaving for her November 6th 2020 cruise? ☺

Avril 

Avril, after just reading an article about laying up and restarting cruise ships, and all the potential problems, I don't think I would want to be on one of the first cruises to start after a 7 month lay up.

[Adawn47]

18 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Avril, after just reading an article about laying up and restarting cruise ships, and all the potential problems, I don't think I would want to be on one of the first cruises to start after a 7 month lay up.

Hmm, I think I would give it a try. I've not seen the article you're referring to, but surely it can't be any worse than ironing out all the problems that occur on a maiden cruise.

Avril 

[terrierjohn]

Just now, Adawn47 said:

Hmm, I think I would give it a try. I've not seen the article you're referring to, but surely it can't be any worse than ironing out all the problems that occur on a maiden cruise.

Avril 

Things like, mould, damp, corroded plumbing and leaks, sea salt induced rust, de-humidifiers needed for cabins and enclosed venues etc......

[Adawn47]

2 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Things like, mould, damp, corroded plumbing and leaks, sea salt induced rust, de-humidifiers needed for cabins and enclosed venues etc......

I would have thought that would have all been rectified before they resume sailings. I somehow can't see them scrambling to set sail again without prior warning, and do you seriously think Carnival are going to let multi - million pound ships bob about at sea for 7 months being left to fall apart? because I don’t.

Avril 

[jeanlyon]

I would have thought that all the crew left on board would be keeping things up to scratch.  However, I can see another list of cancellations coming in August possibly.  Theatres aren't even open, so how can you cram loads of people on a ship and put shows on?

[Roger Ackroyd]

7 minutes ago, jeanlyon said:

I would have thought that all the crew left on board would be keeping things up to scratch.  However, I can see another list of cancellations coming in August possibly.  Theatres aren't even open, so how can you cram loads of people on a ship and put shows on?

There is a very long list of things I would want to know before paying any balances. Here's a few

A) Will masks be compulsory on board in public areas?

B) Will social distancing be enforced?

C) What arrangements are to be made about dining? Would we be able to share with others on tables of 4+?

D) What would the arrangements for shows look like?

E) Casinos and one-armed bandits open or closed?

F) Bars?

G) Tendering at ports?

H) Ports refusing liners?

I) Itinerary changes?

....

there are plenty more but if any of the above pertained I wouldn't want to cruise. And my guess is that plenty of regular cruisers are beginning to weigh up the likely experiences on board and finding that it won't be worth the ££££ involved. And I speak as one who has cruised a far amount over the last 10 years and have already had 3 cruises cancelled this year and two booked for next.

No more balances will be paid by me until firm guidelines are issued by the cruise lines.

[Adawn47]

42 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Things like, mould, damp, corroded plumbing and leaks, sea salt induced rust, de-humidifiers needed for cabins and enclosed venues etc......

I've found a similar article and according to what I read you are referring to the outcome of a 'cold lay up' which is the worst case scenario,  and as I mentioned before I can't see Carnival subjecting their multi - million pound ships to that. There are many more ways to lay up their ships with none of the issues you mentioned. Positivity John 😉

Avril 

[ann141]

4 minutes ago, Roger Ackroyd said:

There is a very long list of things I would want to know before paying any balances. Here's a few

A) Will masks be compulsory on board in public areas?

B) Will social distancing be enforced?

C) What arrangements are to be made about dining? Would we be able to share with others on tables of 4+?

D) What would the arrangements for shows look like?

E) Casinos and one-armed bandits open or closed?

F) Bars?

G) Tendering at ports?

H) Ports refusing liners?

I) Itinerary changes?

....

there are plenty more but if any of the above pertained I wouldn't want to cruise. And my guess is that plenty of regular cruisers are beginning to weigh up the likely experiences on board and finding that it won't be worth the ££££ involved. And I speak as one who has cruised a far amount over the last 10 years and have already had 3 cruises cancelled this year and two booked for next.

No more balances will be paid by me until firm guidelines are issued by the cruise lines.

It is for the reasons you list(apart from E) why I am hoping that the balance won t be due until much nearer the date so that we will be better informed to make a decision to sail or not.However I also have realised that if the current FCO office still advises no cruising for over 70 s and vunerable groups we may not be able to cruise because all though we are both under 70, I have a medical condition that puts me in the vunerable category which presumably would mean insurance wouldn t cover me for anything!The decision might be made for us

[Dorset cruise fan]

Ok, just got off the phone to P&O and not very happy (surprise!). We have just had our Oceana cruise cancelled for the second time. First time was the repositioning so we put our FCC from that and a cancelled Aurora cruise towards a November Oceana. That was straightforward but now Oceana being sold we got the standard email saying 125% FCC so we thought well, with all we've already spent on this cancelled cruise will get FCC but no! If you've already had FCC you don't get it again so they've sold our ship and we get no compensation at all! I know from these threads that compensation in the past has varied wildly but I've read the email over and over and nowhere does it say you can't get FCC again, which would have been approx £500, which was the difference in price between cancelled cruise and new booking. The  girl I spoke to was lovely and helpful but basically we have got nothing for having our cruise  cancelled because ship was sold.

[molecrochip]

3 hours ago, terrierjohn said:

Things like, mould, damp, corroded plumbing and leaks, sea salt induced rust, de-humidifiers needed for cabins and enclosed venues etc......

 

2 hours ago, Adawn47 said:

I've found a similar article and according to what I read you are referring to the outcome of a 'cold lay up' which is the worst case scenario,  and as I mentioned before I can't see Carnival subjecting their multi - million pound ships to that. There are many more ways to lay up their ships with none of the issues you mentioned. Positivity John 😉

Avril 

John does indeed refer to a cold lay-up. All the time the ships are sailing they are no technically laid-up. One of the reasons for Carnival moving their crew into passenger cabins across all brands was to ensure that the passenger cabins continued to be aired etc. Water systems are still being used and flushed through daily to ensure no build-up of bacteria etc. There are a couple of you-tube videos which show how everything has been cleaned/decommissioned and then bagged-up to protect it.

 

In a cold lay-up a ship can be emptied of water / fuel and basically locked-up secure with no one on board. A cold lay-up expects a dry dock/refurbishment before re-entering service.

[ann141]

2 hours ago, ann141 said:

It is for the reasons you list(apart from E) why I am hoping that the balance won t be due until much nearer the date so that we will be better informed to make a decision to sail or not.However I also have realised that if the current FCO office still advises no cruising for over 70 s and vunerable groups we may not be able to cruise because all though we are both under 70, I have a medical condition that puts me in the vunerable category which presumably would mean insurance wouldn t cover me for anything!The decision might be made for us

Just heard that FCO advise against cruising for everyone.Hubby can t even go by himself!!!

[molecrochip]

3 minutes ago, ann141 said:

Just heard that FCO advise against cruising for everyone.Hubby can t even go by himself!!!

At present. FCO has not yet relaxed its restrictions because a) UK cruise lines have not announced their new health measures and b) like Gyms, Cinemas etc, it lots of people in a close space.

 

We might not have the US CDC putting no sail orders in place in the UK, but the cruise ship operators are very much playing ball with the UK governement. Hence why restart dates are in October etc.

[ann141]

1 minute ago, molecrochip said:

At present. FCO has not yet relaxed its restrictions because a) UK cruise lines have not announced their new health measures and b) like Gyms, Cinemas etc, it lots of people in a close space.

 

We might not have the US CDC putting no sail orders in place in the UK, but the cruise ship operators are very much playing ball with the UK governement. Hence why restart dates are in October etc.

I wonder if thats the reason that P and O are possibly going to let people pay their balance nearer the time of sailing.I can't imagine anyone paying their balance for a cruise that the FCO is advising against.I realise things may (hopefully ) change but as viruses often worsen  in the autumn and winter I wonder if cruises may not resume until next year.

[molecrochip]

1 hour ago, ann141 said:

I wonder if thats the reason that P and O are possibly going to let people pay their balance nearer the time of sailing.I can't imagine anyone paying their balance for a cruise that the FCO is advising against.I realise things may (hopefully ) change but as viruses often worsen  in the autumn and winter I wonder if cruises may not resume until next year.

It would certainly be sensible off them from a PR point of view.

[happy v]

8 hours ago, Dorset cruise fan said:

Ok, just got off the phone to P&O and not very happy (surprise!). We have just had our Oceana cruise cancelled for the second time. First time was the repositioning so we put our FCC from that and a cancelled Aurora cruise towards a November Oceana. That was straightforward but now Oceana being sold we got the standard email saying 125% FCC so we thought well, with all we've already spent on this cancelled cruise will get FCC but no! If you've already had FCC you don't get it again so they've sold our ship and we get no compensation at all! I know from these threads that compensation in the past has varied wildly but I've read the email over and over and nowhere does it say you can't get FCC again, which would have been approx £500, which was the difference in price between cancelled cruise and new booking. The  girl I spoke to was lovely and helpful but basically we have got nothing for having our cruise  cancelled because ship was sold.

On P&O website in FCC section the FAQ state if you book another cruise which is cancelled you can't have more FCC. You can't really expect to receive it twice.

[Dorset cruise fan]

You can if they've just sold your ship!

[No pager thank you]

8 hours ago, Dorset cruise fan said:

Ok, just got off the phone to P&O and not very happy (surprise!). We have just had our Oceana cruise cancelled for the second time. First time was the repositioning so we put our FCC from that and a cancelled Aurora cruise towards a November Oceana. That was straightforward but now Oceana being sold we got the standard email saying 125% FCC so we thought well, with all we've already spent on this cancelled cruise will get FCC but no! If you've already had FCC you don't get it again so they've sold our ship and we get no compensation at all! I know from these threads that compensation in the past has varied wildly but I've read the email over and over and nowhere does it say you can't get FCC again, which would have been approx £500, which was the difference in price between cancelled cruise and new booking. The  girl I spoke to was lovely and helpful but basically we have got nothing for having our cruise  cancelled because ship was sold.

This is one of the quirks in the FCC rules which will catch some people out.

 

My understanding is that for a second or subsequent cancellation, you only receive additional FCC if you also paid more to rebook your holiday....i.e.

 

Cruise 1 - March, £2,000 - cancelled by P&O, passenger receives £2,500 FCC.

 

Passenger rebooks Cruise 2 for £2,700.  They pay the £200 extra.

 

When cruise 2 is cancelled, they receive £50 extra FCC.  This means that if they re book for cruise 3, they have:

 

£2000 from Cruise 1

£200 from Cruise 2

£550 FCC

 

Therefore, the budget for Cruise 3 is £2750 to avoid paying more.

 

The problem is of course that you are now being asked to rebook a cruise again where your original money will not go as far, which I agree is unfair.  It is particularly unfair that when Oriana was sold with more notice, all passengers received £75 OBC as compensation.

 

Up to you how to proceed, but my advice would be to request the initial refund in cash, as a point of principle.

[Dorset cruise fan]

Thank you No Pager, you've explained it really well and I agree you can't keep getting compound FCC for the same reason but when it's for a different reason then they should be offering something, it's really frustrating. 

[terrierjohn]

On 7/9/2020 at 1:31 PM, molecrochip said:

 

John does indeed refer to a cold lay-up. All the time the ships are sailing they are no technically laid-up. One of the reasons for Carnival moving their crew into passenger cabins across all brands was to ensure that the passenger cabins continued to be aired etc. Water systems are still being used and flushed through daily to ensure no build-up of bacteria etc. There are a couple of you-tube videos which show how everything has been cleaned/decommissioned and then bagged-up to protect it.

 

In a cold lay-up a ship can be emptied of water / fuel and basically locked-up secure with no one on board. A cold lay-up expects a dry dock/refurbishment before re-entering service.

You are of course correct Moley, but you have rather undermined my doom and gloom post to Avril about her possible Q4 cruise.

[Adawn47]

Finally, finally😄 I've managed to get through to a lovely lady from P&O about deferring the balance for our November cruise to September 30th.  Everything sounded positive and she took all the details and said she needed to discuss it with her finance manager and would get back to me later today. Now I'm not naive, the ball is now firmly  in their court. I won't  keep chasing this and if I haven't heard anything by August 8th the balance won't be paid. Fingers crossed.

Avril 

[terrierjohn]

25 minutes ago, Adawn47 said:

Finally, finally😄 I've managed to get through to a lovely lady from P&O about deferring the balance for our November cruise to September 30th.  Everything sounded positive and she took all the details and said she needed to discuss it with her finance manager and would get back to me later today. Now I'm not naive, the ball is now firmly  in their court. I won't  keep chasing this and if I haven't heard anything by August 8th the balance won't be paid. Fingers crossed.

Avril 

Best of luck Avril, really they ought to agree otherwise they definitely won't receive any of the balance.  Unless of course they already know the cruise will be cancelled, in which case they might not say anything and hope some passengers will pay the balance.

[Adawn47]

48 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Best of luck Avril, really they ought to agree otherwise they definitely won't receive any of the balance.  Unless of course they already know the cruise will be cancelled, in which case they might not say anything and hope some passengers will pay the balance.

She was very non - committal but nice. All the usual spiel, " I completely understand your situation, I've noted it on your booking form, consult with my manager and get back to you",  the normal script.  We'll wait and see, but ultimately it's all down to the FCO.

Avril