Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[UnorigionalName]

2 hours ago, REEtired said:

TeeRick,  maybe it’s too early but any idea if this will be a live vaccine vs not a live vaccine like the flu shot. Shingles vaccine is a live vaccine which my oncologist says I should not get.  We have cancelled three cruises and hoping I can cruise with the covid19 vaccine. Fingers toes eyes and everything else crossed!  Thx.  Marie 

 

As I understand it, the AZ vaccine is technically a live virus, as I don't believe they inactivate it.

 

But they virus used is a hobbled weak chimpanzee virus, with theoretically no ability to infect humans and replicate in humans (or even chimpanzees), so theoretically it should be safe for all humans.  We will see though, as more data comes out, as this is a novel way of making a vaccine.  A brilliant novel way for many reasons.

Edited July 25, 2020 by UnorigionalName

[NantahalaCruiser]

3 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

As I understand it, the AZ vaccine is technically a live virus, as I don't believe they inactivate it.

 

But they virus used is a hobbled weak chimpanzee virus, with theoretically no ability to infect humans and replicate in humans (or even chimpanzees), so theoretically it should be safe for all humans.  We will see though, as more data comes out, as this is a novel way of making a vaccine.  A brilliant novel way for many reasons.

First, a division of the University of Oxford is the developer of this vaccine - not AZ.  AZ has partnered with the University of Oxford to mass produce their vaccine.

 

Second, the modified chimpanzee virus is merely used as a carrier of a vulnerable portion of the COVID-19 virus.

 

Here is a link to the University of Oxford's simplified description of the vaccine methodology:

 

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/about

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, REEtired said:

TeeRick,  maybe it’s too early but any idea if this will be a live vaccine vs not a live vaccine like the flu shot. Shingles vaccine is a live vaccine which my oncologist says I should not get.  We have cancelled three cruises and hoping I can cruise with the covid19 vaccine. Fingers toes eyes and everything else crossed!  Thx.  Marie 

 

Marie- I am not in a position to comment on anybody's specific medical situation nor am I qualified.  It is highly recommended to discuss everything with your oncologist once the approved vaccine (or vaccines) is known.  As for shingles - see below.  There is a non-live version (Shingrix) now to discuss with your doctor and oncologist to see if appropriate for you.

 

Go to this link:  https://www.vaccines.gov/basics/types

Here is some general background on viral vaccine types and how they apply to COVID vaccines being tested:

1) Live attenuated vaccines- a similar but much weakened live virus as the one you are trying to prevent- but altered to make it safe for most people but still induces a strong protective immune response.  Examples here are MMR vaccine (Measles, Mumps, Rubella) and Chickenpox vaccine.  There is a live-attenuated influenza nasal spray vaccine too.  Note that the "older" Shingles vaccine Zostavax is in this category.

2) Inactivated vaccines- a "killed version" of the original virus.  Influenza vaccines use this technology.

3) Subunit vaccines (non-live) - uses pieces (antigens) of the virus usually formulated in a special solution  (adjuvant) to produce a required immune response.  Additional booster shots are usually necessary.  Hepatitis B vaccine.  Note that the newer Shingles vaccine Shingrix is in this category.  There are versions of COVID vaccines being tested that use the purified SPIKE protein as a potential subunit vaccine

4) Vectored vaccines and RNA/DNA vaccines - new categories lumped together here for brevity.   In general they have been around for quite some time but not used (yet) in approved human preventative vaccines.  The lead Oxford/AZ vaccine uses a replication-deficient (so "non-live") chimpanzee adenovirus (another type of common cold virus) that has been engineered to carry the coronavirus SPIKE protein.    A human adenovirus version is being tested in China (CanSino) and is partnered with J&J.   The Moderna vaccine uses purified pieces of the coronavirus RNA (non-live) delivered to cells in fat-like particles (liposomes).   This vaccine is taken up by cells which then make the coronavirus SPIKE protein.  Pfizer and BioNTech have a similar version of this RNA vaccine.

5) There are literally over 100 different vaccine approaches to COVID moving forward using versions of these technologies.

[TeeRick]

9 hours ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

First, a division of the University of Oxford is the developer of this vaccine - not AZ.  AZ has partnered with the University of Oxford to mass produce their vaccine.

 

Second, the modified chimpanzee virus is merely used as a carrier of a vulnerable portion of the COVID-19 virus.

 

Here is a link to the University of Oxford's simplified description of the vaccine methodology:

 

https://covid19vaccinetrial.co.uk/about

Thank you- nice diagram!

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

As I understand it, the AZ vaccine is technically a live virus, as I don't believe they inactivate it.

 

But they virus used is a hobbled weak chimpanzee virus, with theoretically no ability to infect humans and replicate in humans (or even chimpanzees), so theoretically it should be safe for all humans.  We will see though, as more data comes out, as this is a novel way of making a vaccine.  A brilliant novel way for many reasons.

You ask the right question.  This will be a true test for worldwide regulatory authorities in the business of approving new vaccines.  It is a muddy area.  Are viral-vectored vaccines like the Oxford vaccine live if they do not carry their entire native genome and also cannot replicate?  Or are they considered inactivated?  These vectored approaches have been around for years actually.  The debate has raged for years.  Some have been used in oncology therapeutic vaccine approaches.  None have been approved in large scale healthy adult populations (yet).  Ebola vaccine from Merck which uses a vector approach called VSV has been used in limited areas in humans with success.  They are developing a COVID vaccine using this same technology.  This will all be fascinating (to me anyway!).

[TeeRick]

The 30,000 person Moderna COVID Vaccine trial began today in the USA.  Good luck! Hope it works!

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/the-worlds-biggest-coronavirus-vaccine-study-begins-a-us-trial-that-will-include-30000-people-to-see-if-the-shots-really-work.html

[TeeRick]

More news on the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine (known as ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 or AZD1222) as they gear up supply in the US.  I called AZ about volunteering for the phase III study- they are not taking applications yet in the US but very soon.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/astrazeneca-emergent-sign-expanded-174m-pact-for-u-s-coronavirus-shot-supply

[madmacs]

With cases starting to rise again in the UK, our Chief Medical Officer has suggested we have reached the limit of how far restrictions can be lifted, indeed they have been ramped up somewhat. I really can't see cruises happening until folks are vaccinated. That will almost certainly take us into next year. We are due to go on a cruise in March which I now rate as at best 50/50/

[K.T.B.]

On 7/27/2020 at 8:26 AM, TeeRick said:

The 30,000 person Moderna COVID Vaccine trial began today in the USA.  Good luck! Hope it works!

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/27/the-worlds-biggest-coronavirus-vaccine-study-begins-a-us-trial-that-will-include-30000-people-to-see-if-the-shots-really-work.html

 

On 7/28/2020 at 10:23 AM, TeeRick said:

More news on the Oxford/Astra Zeneca vaccine (known as ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 or AZD1222) as they gear up supply in the US.  I called AZ about volunteering for the phase III study- they are not taking applications yet in the US but very soon.

https://www.fiercepharma.com/manufacturing/astrazeneca-emergent-sign-expanded-174m-pact-for-u-s-coronavirus-shot-supply

 

When Dr. Fauci is confident in a vaccine being developed very soon, that gives me a lot of hope!

[terrydtx]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

 

When Dr. Fauci is confident in a vaccine being developed very soon, that gives me a lot of hope!

I agree and believe from everything I read that it will be by December of this year. The only problem is that 28 to 30% of people polled in the US say they will never take the vaccine. I hope that the travel industry as a whole will require anyone traveling outside the US by auto, air or ship have a certification of being vaccinated or not allowed to travel. A simple stamp on passports could accomplish the goal of proof of vaccination.

[Ken the cruiser]

13 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

I agree and believe from everything I read that it will be by December of this year. The only problem is that 28 to 30% of people polled in the US say they will never take the vaccine. I hope that the travel industry as a whole will require anyone traveling outside the US by auto, air or ship have a certification of being vaccinated or not allowed to travel. A simple stamp on passports could accomplish the goal of proof of vaccination.

Then that's on those folks who decide not to take the vaccine. But we agree, the cruise lines should require proof of vaccination in some form or fashion and also to continue to do temp checks prior to boarding.

[foodsvcmgr]

Couldn’t agree more - let the anti-Vaxers stay home.

That will provide some greater margin of safety if everyone on the ship and plane have been vaccinated and are required to present proof of same.

Everyone has a choice, I choose to be vaccinated and I choose to cruise.

[pumpkin 11]

I wouldn't get the vaccine because I know I'm not in a high risk category and I will recover. It should for the older people and people with underlying health conditions.

 

Getting a vaccine doesn't mean you can't still spread it, which is what all of our measures are centered around now. 

[npcl]

36 minutes ago, pumpkin 11 said:

I wouldn't get the vaccine because I know I'm not in a high risk category and I will recover. It should for the older people and people with underlying health conditions.

 

Getting a vaccine doesn't mean you can't still spread it, which is what all of our measures are centered around now. 

So instead of being part of the solution you will be part of the problem.  Not high risk so will just get it and potentially spread it to others that might not be able to tolerate the vaccine.

[phoenix_dream]

58 minutes ago, pumpkin 11 said:

I wouldn't get the vaccine because I know I'm not in a high risk category and I will recover. It should for the older people and people with underlying health conditions.

 

Getting a vaccine doesn't mean you can't still spread it, which is what all of our measures are centered around now. 

I know I shouldn't take the bait, but sometimes I can't help myself.  First of all, you absolutely can't know that you will recover, and even if you do you may have long-lasting damage to your heart or other organs.  There have been a number of news stories about perfectly healthy individuals with no underlying conditions who have died from the virus.  So your chances of recovery may be better, but unless you have a crystal ball you cannot be sure you will recover.

 

Secondly, there are a number of people who cannot take the vaccination due to health issues or being newborns.  If you catch it you are putting their lives at risk by not being vaccinated.  It's sad you could live with that on your conscience.  I know I couldn't.

[pumpkin 11]

45 minutes ago, npcl said:

So instead of being part of the solution you will be part of the problem.  Not high risk so will just get it and potentially spread it to others that might not be able to tolerate the vaccine.

Did you not read what I said at all? A vaccine just makes the “sickness” Portion less severe so you won’t die hopefully. Doesn’t stop the virus from showing up in some form or you being able to spread it.

 

The vaccine just makes it less severe so hopefully people won’t die from it. 
 

If you cannot get the vaccine because of the risk of the after effects than I can’t help you you’re on your own and there is no government policy that will help you.

Edited August 1, 2020 by pumpkin 11

[markeb]

1 minute ago, pumpkin 11 said:

Did you not read what I said at all? A vaccine just makes the “sickness” Portion less severe so you won’t die hopefully. Doesn’t stop the virus from showing up in some form or you being able to spread it.

 

The vaccine just makes it less severe so hopefully people won’t die from it. 
 

If you cannot get the vaccine because of the risk of the after effects than I can’t help you you’re on your own.

 

I usually don't bite on these, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

The first endpoint in the vaccine trials is recovery of the virus. So if the vaccine candidates, or any of them, succeed at that, then the virus won't show up and you won't be able to spread it. The secondary endpoints are disease severity.

 

You can find all that information at clinicaltrials.gov. It's actually mostly in English, although it certainly helps if you understand science.

 

And,  yes, you getting vaccinated can help people who can't. 

 

[pumpkin 11]

22 minutes ago, phoenix_dream said:

I know I shouldn't take the bait, but sometimes I can't help myself.  First of all, you absolutely can't know that you will recover, and even if you do you may have long-lasting damage to your heart or other organs.  There have been a number of news stories about perfectly healthy individuals with no underlying conditions who have died from the virus.  So your chances of recovery may be better, but unless you have a crystal ball you cannot be sure you will recover.

 

Secondly, there are a number of people who cannot take the vaccination due to health issues or being newborns.  If you catch it you are putting their lives at risk by not being vaccinated.  It's sad you could live with that on your conscience.  I know I couldn't.

Point one, those news stories always say, you “might” have long lasting damage. That happens in like 3 people. Oh great job media you finally got one! Let’s focus on the hardest cases because the phrase “hard cases make bad law,” isn’t true here at all! 😉

 

I keeping all these ridiculous suspicions about covid... “maybe”... maybe covid 19 will make you unable to walk and you’re going to hop around on your knees for the rest of your life... MAYBE.

 

Point two, you’re argument about “continuing to spread it without having a vaccine,” is first of all is pure conjecture. Secondly, the vaccine doesn’t stop you from being able to spread Covid 19, just helps with lessoning the symptoms so you hopefully don’t die.

[Covepointcruiser]

For the Moderna trials in the U.S., 300,000 have signed up with only room for 30,000.

I hope they have no problems getting through this phase.   I hope that those not getting the vaccine when it’s available are denied boarding at least until this gets under control.

[npcl]

1 hour ago, pumpkin 11 said:

Did you not read what I said at all? A vaccine just makes the “sickness” Portion less severe so you won’t die hopefully. Doesn’t stop the virus from showing up in some form or you being able to spread it.

 

The vaccine just makes it less severe so hopefully people won’t die from it. 
 

If you cannot get the vaccine because of the risk of the after effects than I can’t help you you’re on your own and there is no government policy that will help you.

Not worth reading or responding to your posts. Finally found  a use for ignore.

 

A saying from Forrest Gump comes to mind.

 

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by npcl

[REEtired]

Well said. 

[pumpkin 11]

13 minutes ago, npcl said:

Not worth reading or responding to your posts. Finally found  a use for ignore.

 

A saying from Forrest Gump comes to mind.

 

 

 

That's what happens in all pandemics, a certain population (the venerable will die off). There is very little proof asymptomatic peoples can spread it but we will have to agree to disagree at this point.

 

I don't tolerate rudeness so I'm glad you didn't use your forest gump saying, I had/ have no intention of saying anything mean to you.

[babylene]

Pumpkin 11, why wouldn't you take the vaccine?

[phoenix_dream]

27 minutes ago, npcl said:

Not worth reading or responding to your posts. Finally found  a use for ignore.

 

A saying from Forrest Gump comes to mind.

 

 

I tried to do the Ignore thing, but the person in question keeps showing up anyway.  Help!  Any idea what I could be doing wrong?  I'm fearful I won't be able to control myself one of these days and will have to respond with a comment that will get me blocked from Cruise Critic for good LOL.😎

[pumpkin 11]

10 minutes ago, babylene said:

Pumpkin 11, why wouldn't you take the vaccine?

Already explained above.