Are vaccines the light at the end of the tunnel?

[Ken the cruiser]

Just now, terrydtx said:

Some places are free and others take my Medicare Advantage insurance. For example the local Shriners Temple has drive up free testing but they have long lines so we use an Urgent Care located close to our home and they take our insurance with no waiting lines, just walk in and do the test. The Urgent care will not do the test if you come in with a fever.  We get the results back in 48 hours or less by email.

Thanks! Good to know about the Urgent Care option as we have those in our area. 

[terrydtx]

1 minute ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Thanks! Good to know about the Urgent Care option as we have those in our area. 

Ken, where in Alabama do you live? We lived in Helena Alabama from 2004 to 2014 before we moved back to Texas.

[nocl]

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

In one of the medical articles I read this week, that here are only 5 world wide confirmed cases of reinfection with Covid 19 if true is extremely rare. and should not be an issue to worry about.

 

What was the publication date of the article?  

 

An article on Sept 20 fully documented 6 cases.  Keep in mind that they are only identifying those as reinfections that meet a number of critieria including having a good enough sample from the original infection to rule out that it is not just a continuing infection. So there are most likely more for which that criteria cannot be met and for that matter additional ones since a month ago. (takes time to confirm and then report)

 

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Re-infection-and-viral-shedding-threat-assessment-brief.pdf

 

It seems that the average time for reinfection in the cases so far seem to be around 3 months.  So either these cases did not have a good initial immune response or the immune response is shorter lived than one expects. The ones that are showing up this early should be outliers, not the norm.

 

Based upon other Corona viruses, one would expect immunity to last less than a year (but not as short as 3 months) the real test of re-infection should come around next May.  Then you might see the rate of reinfection to be determined by the date of original infection, couple with the rate of new infections.

[terrydtx]

2 minutes ago, nocl said:

4 hours ago, terrydtx said:

 

What was the publication date of the article?  

I think it was from last week.

[Ken the cruiser]

2 hours ago, terrydtx said:

Ken, where in Alabama do you live? We lived in Helena Alabama from 2004 to 2014 before we moved back to Texas.

We live just north of Montgomery. 

[Despegue]

On 10/14/2020 at 3:29 PM, TeeRick said:

So the news now is that J&J put their "one shot" vaccine trial on temporary pause as their independent medical board sorts out an adverse event report.  Much of the media reports that the trial is on hold.  But it is paused which is built into the protocol.  Here is an accurate account (IMO) of what is happening from NPR.  It also discussed an issue with the therapeutic mAB/remdesivir combination study (Lily).   Of interest the Russian "approved" Sputnik vaccine uses the same human ad-vector approach as J&J.  We might not know if they are seeing any adverse events.

 

https://www.npr.org/sections/coronavirus-live-updates/2020/10/13/923225994/johnson-johnson-vaccine-trial-paused-due-to-unexplained-illness-in-participant

A little sidenote: the J&J vaccine development is done by Janssen Farmaceutical, a Belgian company. 
Most  research and development  by Pfizer, Sanofi, J&J  (Janssen )is actually done in Belgium, as we are a World leader in vaccine research and development. ( oh, and this independent of your “Operation Warp Speed”, which is just Political although the head of that operation is...Belgian!)

[LGW59]

29 minutes ago, Despegue said:

A little sidenote: the J&J vaccine development is done by Janssen Farmaceutical, a Belgian company. 
Most  research and development  by Pfizer, Sanofi, J&J  (Janssen )is actually done in Belgium, as we are a World leader in vaccine research and development. ( oh, and this independent of your “Operation Warp Speed”, which is just Political although the head of that operation is...Belgian!)

WOW on 5 star Belgium!!!

[nocl]

1 hour ago, Despegue said:

A little sidenote: the J&J vaccine development is done by Janssen Farmaceutical, a Belgian company. 
Most  research and development  by Pfizer, Sanofi, J&J  (Janssen )is actually done in Belgium, as we are a World leader in vaccine research and development. ( oh, and this independent of your “Operation Warp Speed”, which is just Political although the head of that operation is...Belgian!)

As far as Pfizer is concerned the folks at Pearl River, NY might contest that point.

 

Pfizer does have a clinical research group in Belgium, but as Pfizer puts it

 

The Pearl River site is the primary location for the company’s global Vaccine Research and Development work.

 

The Pearl River site is the primary research and development center housing activities relating to Pfizer’s collaboration with BioNTech, which is focused on developing a potential mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine aimed at preventing COVID-19 infection.

Edited October 18, 2020 by nocl

[Despegue]

8 minutes ago, nocl said:

As far as Pfizer is concerned the folks at Pearl River, NY might contest that point.

primary Pfizer Covid19 vaccine research has been done in New Haven, Brussels and Singapore.

Production of the vaccine is scheduled to be in Puurs, Belgium and 3 other locations.

 

[LGW59]

17 minutes ago, Despegue said:

primary Pfizer Covid19 vaccine research has been done in New Haven, Brussels and Singapore.

Production of the vaccine is scheduled to be in Puurs, Belgium and 3 other locations.

 

In order of where:  Kalamazoo, MI; St Louis, MO; Andover, MA; "The company will also utilize its Puurs, Belgium facility"

[nocl]

33 minutes ago, Despegue said:

primary Pfizer Covid19 vaccine research has been done in New Haven, Brussels and Singapore.

Production of the vaccine is scheduled to be in Puurs, Belgium and 3 other locations.

 

Apparently Pfizer does not agree when they say that Pearl River " is the primary research and development center housing activities relating to Pfizer’s collaboration with BioNTech, which is focused on developing a potential mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine aimed at preventing COVID-19 infection"

[wrk2cruise]

Frankly I don't care where it comes from as long as it's safe and effective and available sooner rather than later.

[TeeRick]

13 hours ago, Despegue said:

A little sidenote: the J&J vaccine development is done by Janssen Farmaceutical, a Belgian company. 
Most  research and development  by Pfizer, Sanofi, J&J  (Janssen )is actually done in Belgium, as we are a World leader in vaccine research and development. ( oh, and this independent of your “Operation Warp Speed”, which is just Political although the head of that operation is...Belgian!)

Despegue you should be proud of your country's current effort and historical contributions to many effective vaccines over decades.   I have been to Belgium and had some business at GSK at the Rixensart site. Beautiful countryside.  I met Moncef Slaoui once a number of years ago when he was at that site.  He was very impressive.  The US population in general has really no idea how vaccines (like many other drugs) are a worldwide effort and there are many advanced research, manufacturing and development sites in Europe.  There is a major industry in Ireland too.   It is clear to me that US and UK and EU countries are all working together across their sites in many countries to beat this virus.  That's what it will take and I'm very happy to see it.  Companies are already submitting early data to global regulatory authorities.  

[TeeRick]

12 hours ago, nocl said:

As far as Pfizer is concerned the folks at Pearl River, NY might contest that point.

 

Pfizer does have a clinical research group in Belgium, but as Pfizer puts it

 

The Pearl River site is the primary location for the company’s global Vaccine Research and Development work.

 

The Pearl River site is the primary research and development center housing activities relating to Pfizer’s collaboration with BioNTech, which is focused on developing a potential mRNA-based coronavirus vaccine aimed at preventing COVID-19 infection.

I used to be based at Pearl River for Wyeth which became Pfizer in 2009.  Pfizer has recently very much downsized there but they still have a solid vaccine presence.  They use multiple sites in the US and worldwide for different stages of R&D and particularly manufacturing, fill/finish, packaging and distribution.  As do most Pharma companies.

[mimbecky]

22 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

What I find interesting is that in Alabama most of us normal folks can't even call to get an appointment to get a COVID test unless we have some of the related symptoms. But yet some folks are saying up to 40% of the those that test positive are asymptomatic. Could there be a lot more folks that have had COVID, but didn't get tested because they didn't have any symptoms? Just curious how so many folks think they need to get tested if they aren't displaying any symptoms?

 

I just tested for the first time here in California.  We took a trip back east to see my brother in law who has entered hospice.  There unfortunately were unmasked people near us on all 4 flights and honestly at one point I was in a room of 12 unmasked people (family gathering) while at our destination.  I have no symptoms, but one of the places I volunteer asked me to either quarantine for 14 days or test (5 days after returning home) in order to come back.  I went through a county website, and didn't have to have symptoms or have "reason" to test. Nor did I have to pay-although they did take my insurance information.  They said I'd have results in 48-72 hours.  I have friends who have gone several times per work request (education field, Physical Therapy)- same spiel. 

IMO I think California may be going this route to keep the testing percentages down?

 

M

[d9704011]

8 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

IMO I think California may be going this route to keep the testing percentages down?

I don’t understand.  Your experience sounds pretty normal to me but I don’t see how that may connect to the testing percentage and a desire to keep it down/supressed.

[TeeRick]

39 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

 

I just tested for the first time here in California.  We took a trip back east to see my brother in law who has entered hospice.  There unfortunately were unmasked people near us on all 4 flights and honestly at one point I was in a room of 12 unmasked people (family gathering) while at our destination.  I have no symptoms, but one of the places I volunteer asked me to either quarantine for 14 days or test (5 days after returning home) in order to come back.  I went through a county website, and didn't have to have symptoms or have "reason" to test. Nor did I have to pay-although they did take my insurance information.  They said I'd have results in 48-72 hours.  I have friends who have gone several times per work request (education field, Physical Therapy)- same spiel. 

IMO I think California may be going this route to keep the testing percentages down?

 

M

There are still not enough tests in the US so if they are keeping testing down in CA and elsewhere it is mostly because they are prioritizing who gets them.  

[d9704011]

1 minute ago, TeeRick said:

There are still not enough tests in the US so if they are keeping testing down in CA and elsewhere it is mostly because they are prioritizing who gets them.  

That’s pretty much the case in Ontario.  Over the summer when case counts were relatively low access to testing was somewhat relaxed and just about anybody could be tested.  With case counts now highly elevated, the eligibility for testing has been very much tightened up to focus on higher risk individuals.

[Despegue]

1 hour ago, TeeRick said:

Despegue you should be proud of your country's current effort and historical contributions to many effective vaccines over decades.   I have been to Belgium and had some business at GSK at the Rixensart site. Beautiful countryside.  I met Moncef Slaoui once a number of years ago when he was at that site.  He was very impressive.  The US population in general has really no idea how vaccines (like many other drugs) are a worldwide effort and there are many advanced research, manufacturing and development sites in Europe.  There is a major industry in Ireland too.   It is clear to me that US and UK and EU countries are all working together across their sites in many countries to beat this virus.  That's what it will take and I'm very happy to see it.  Companies are already submitting early data to global regulatory authorities.  

The battle is indeed a Worldwide effort, and that is the only thing I wanted to emphasise. Some politicians seem to think that it is a “one man  (reality) show”, which is insulting to the thousands of researchers Worldwide who have not rested since January 2020. Operation Warp Speed is obviously a good thing, but not more than what any other country is doing right now, something that a lot of Americans don’t seem to understand, and which certainly won’t be mentioned on Fox Propaganda, sorry, “news”.

 

Unfortunately, here in Belgium, we are suffering a major second wave, partly because the youth, those who we rely our future prosperity on, found it more important to party than to adhere to the rules...

Let’s hope for a solution in 2021. We luckily have reserved already millions of doses with several companies, as most developed countries have.

What worries me more are those people living in countries without the financial means to buy massive Covid19 vaccine stocks.

This needs to be a WHO effort to eradicate this nightmare Worldwide.

 

I have also had the honour of meeting mr. Slaoui and he is certainly the right man for the job.

 

[Laurab23]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

There are still not enough tests in the US so if they are keeping testing down in CA and elsewhere it is mostly because they are prioritizing who gets them.  

Like athletes?

 

[mimbecky]

5 hours ago, d9704011 said:

I don’t understand.  Your experience sounds pretty normal to me but I don’t see how that may connect to the testing percentage and a desire to keep it down/supressed.

I didn’t mean keep testing percentage down, rather testing positivity rates down.

Right now anyone in San Diego can get tested without symptoms or “reason”. Testing positivity is a county metric for reopening.  This metric is the percentage of positive cases vs all those tested. If just anyone is getting tested, chances are that that metric will be lower than if they were only testing symptomatic people.

The STATE  has a case rate metric which is the percentage of positive cases vs population. That is much higher for us.

I’m not for, or against, opening faster so please don’t take it a political statement.

Hope that clarifies.

M

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by mimbecky

[dreaminofcruisin]

47 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

I didn’t mean keep testing percentage down, rather testing positivity rates down.

Right now anyone in San Diego can get tested without symptoms or “reason”. Testing positivity is a county metric for reopening.  This metric is the percentage of positive cases vs all those tested. If just anyone is getting tested, chances are that that metric will be lower than if they were only testing symptomatic people.

The STATE  has a case rate metric which is the percentage of positive cases vs population. That is much higher for us.

I’m not for, or against, opening faster so please don’t take it a political statement.

Hope that clarifies.

M

 

 

My DD is an NP for Long Term Care facilities. She is now being tested weekly....with the nasal swab that goes up to your brain... 🤪 

I think that is the current CDC recommendation for LTC staff.

 

[LGW59]

52 minutes ago, mimbecky said:

I didn’t mean keep testing percentage down, rather testing positivity rates down.

Right now anyone in San Diego can get tested without symptoms or “reason”. Testing positivity is a county metric for reopening.  This metric is the percentage of positive cases vs all those tested. If just anyone is getting tested, chances are that that metric will be lower than if they were only testing symptomatic people.

The STATE  has a case rate metric which is the percentage of positive cases vs population. That is much higher for us.

I’m not for, or against, opening faster so please don’t take it a political statement.

Hope that clarifies.

M

 

Pretty clear to me, thanks, and we are basically doing the same in MA.

[hcat]

Distribution of vaccines may become a potential hurdle .I saw our NY Gov on TV today raising many issues.

 

 He talked about the State(s) being responsible for storage of vaccine doses at proper temps,  distribution, and  in what order,  etc and convincing people to be vaccinated and tracking (?) . Said folks will  likely need 2 doses.  And need for  Fed Gov  funding.

 

Sounds like another huge bureacracy in the making. How this will all play out is a serious question, esp if a vaccine is needed before folks can cruise.

 

Actually never gave this much thought.  For flu, pneumonia and shingles  vaccines we just get them at our local pharmacy. Either covered by insurance or pay cash.

[greykitty]

From what I've read, several of the vaccines need to be transported and stored at extreme cold temperatures - I've seen numbers from -4 F to - 94 F.  This is far more difficult that the usual cold storage needed for many vaccines.  Not sure every local Walgreens will be able to manage -94 F temps.  That said, a lot of companies are ramping up based on what they expect/hope will happen with a successful vaccine.

 

Also, if two doses are required, it'll be a logistical issue to track each person receiving the shot and ensuring they show up on time for shot 2.  There were issues with Shingrix with people missing the recommended window for shot 2, especially the first year of availability.

 

Or, will they turn stadiums, schools,  etc., into inoculation centers?  Almost hearkening back to the polio vaccines and mass inoculations (sugar cubes back then).  Will they expand who can give inoculations beyond the current personnel?

 

https://www.discovermagazine.com/health/keeping-coronavirus-vaccines-at-subzero-temperatures-during-distribution

 

Lots of infrastructure to consider, even if all goes well.

 

Then you've got the whole probably tiered inoculation administration.  I'm still guessing HCW and first responders, essential workers of whatever industry, then those 'civilians' with age and/or chronic conditions that put them more at risk, etc etc.   How will those designations be assigned and verified?  

 

I remember some years back when the flu vaccine was scarce - I have Type 2 diabetes so did get to 'skip to the head of the line', but had to show physician's statement.

 

A local pharmacy tech did tell me a month ago her nationwide chain was being kept in the loop and trying to work out best working practices.

 

I have read that Medicare will cover any vaccine for its recipients.  Hopefully all the major US insurers will follow, and subsidized inoculations for those who cannot afford insurance in the US>