Omg. Fred have bought the 2 flagships of Holland America! We finally get decent sized ships in the UK!

[ovccruiser]

Well its official excerpt from email

We would also like to let you know that when we return to the waters in 2021 our new ships Bolette and Borealis will be taking on itineraries sailing from UK ports for sister ships Black Watch and Boudicca, which we plan to retire from our fleet. Both vessels have served us very well over the years and we know they are dearly loved by many of our guests.

 

Sad, I enjoyed being on both BW and Bou

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, ovccruiser said:

Well its official excerpt from email

We would also like to let you know that when we return to the waters in 2021 our new ships Bolette and Borealis will be taking on itineraries sailing from UK ports for sister ships Black Watch and Boudicca, which we plan to retire from our fleet. Both vessels have served us very well over the years and we know they are dearly loved by many of our guests.

 

Sad, I enjoyed being on both BW and Bou

Yes, it is sad - I was looking forward to sailing Boudicca next year. They are beautiful ships, more akin to Ocean Liners than cruise ships. I have messaged Fred Olsen to ask if Bolette is small enough to go through the Kiel Canal and locks, as that is what I am due to do.

[sagavista]

I believe both the Bolette and Borealis are too big to transit the Kiel Canal.

[Britboys]

1 hour ago, sagavista said:

I believe both the Bolette and Borealis are too big to transit the Kiel Canal.

Yes, that is what I think too. I think they might fit in the locks but be too high for the bridges. Have had a very non-committal response from Fred Olsen. It will be very annoying if it is cancelled as it is a replacement for one cancelled this May, so they have already had our full payment for over 6 months!

[cruzingnut]

6 hours ago, Britboys said:

Yes, that is what I think too. I think they might fit in the locks but be too high for the bridges. Have had a very non-committal response from Fred Olsen. It will be very annoying if it is cancelled as it is a replacement for one cancelled this May, so they have already had our full payment for over 6 months!

 

I don't think either of these ships went thru the Kiel Canal; the only Holland ship that I know of that went through was the Prinsendam.  That ship is considerably smaller than these. 

[Britboys]

7 hours ago, cruzingnut said:

 

I don't think either of these ships went thru the Kiel Canal; the only Holland ship that I know of that went through was the Prinsendam.  That ship is considerably smaller than these. 

As well as posting a question on their fb page, I also messaged them direct and the response from that was also non-committal. I'm pretty resigned now to losing my fourth cruise since Covid-19 raised its ugly head...

[tring]

17 hours ago, Britboys said:

Yes, it is sad - I was looking forward to sailing Boudicca next year. They are beautiful ships, more akin to Ocean Liners than cruise ships. I have messaged Fred Olsen to ask if Bolette is small enough to go through the Kiel Canal and locks, as that is what I am due to do.

 

I have seen your itinerary and suspect as it is Kiel week, they will still go there but miss another port or reduce time in them to allow for the extra journey, though as it is Kiel week I suspect they could have allowed a long time for the crossings as could be very busy.  I do not think Fred will answer any individual questions before he contacts people booked on those cruises and realistically I do not think we can expect him to do so as it is best details are not released piecemeal.  I had asked about Bordeaux a few weeks ago and was basically just reassured that they will always make sure they go as "close" as possible, as they always do.  Hopefully we will know about next summers departures fairly soon of the other cabins are to be released for general sale in early September.

 

I can see a number of itinerary changes  Considering we are booked for 10 nights next July to Bordeaux, Aviles, Saint Malo, Falmouth and Getxo (near Bilbao), I feel most of our ports could be suspect apart fro Getxo, which is the only one I am confident they will make as it is near Bilbao.  I still feel he has got to give flexibility with the chance to change cruise and likely and offer an upgraded cabin to prevent people wanting to cancel a cruise, so will be interesting if the first people who hear give feedback on what is offered if he goes through the bookings one by one.  Though it is possible he has mailings sent out to everyone more or less at the same time as any changes must be well in hand for him to go public.  We will have to wait and see.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by tring

[tring]

Tried to log into my booking, but says, "Sorry, we’re carrying out some maintenance to this page of our website. We will be back up and running soon."   🙂

 

So something is happening - I wonder how long soon will be.

Edited August 22, 2020 by tring

[ighten]

Im slightly curious re future pricing and those booked in outsides currently .. Wouldn't the ratio of balconies to outsides be totally different - or is it not an issue as they probably hadn't sold many in the current situation...

 

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by ighten

[Britboys]

19 minutes ago, ighten said:

Im slightly curious re future pricing and those booked in outsides currently .. Wouldn't the ratio of balconies to outsides be totally different - or is it not an issue as they probably hadn't sold many in the current situation...

 

 

There are certainly a lot more balcony cabins and of course the Lanai Cabins that open onto the Promenade. Difficult to know how many bookings they have but some - like me will undoubtedly be people who agreed to transfer a cruise after this year's cancellation.

[Britboys]

3 hours ago, tring said:

 

I have seen your itinerary and suspect as it is Kiel week, they will still go there but miss another port or reduce time in them to allow for the extra journey, though as it is Kiel week I suspect they could have allowed a long time for the crossings as could be very busy.  I do not think Fred will answer any individual questions before he contacts people booked on those cruises and realistically I do not think we can expect him to do so as it is best details are not released piecemeal.  I had asked about Bordeaux a few weeks ago and was basically just reassured that they will always make sure they go as "close" as possible, as they always do.  Hopefully we will know about next summers departures fairly soon of the other cabins are to be released for general sale in early September.

 

I can see a number of itinerary changes  Considering we are booked for 10 nights next July to Bordeaux, Aviles, Saint Malo, Falmouth and Getxo (near Bilbao), I feel most of our ports could be suspect apart fro Getxo, which is the only one I am confident they will make as it is near Bilbao.  I still feel he has got to give flexibility with the chance to change cruise and likely and offer an upgraded cabin to prevent people wanting to cancel a cruise, so will be interesting if the first people who hear give feedback on what is offered if he goes through the bookings one by one.  Though it is possible he has mailings sent out to everyone more or less at the same time as any changes must be well in hand for him to go public.  We will have to wait and see.

 

 

I will certainly be looking for some flexibility and compassion from Fred. If they do go to Kiel, my guess is that they would drop Travemunde completely and reduce time in either/both Amsterdam and Antwerp.

The change of ship is not a problem per se, although I am disappointed that I will never have sailed on Boudicca. Fred made a big point of the canal transits in their publicity and it was a major factor in my cruise buddy and I accepting a transfer to another cruise when our May one went due to Covid. We had already paid the balance for this May before the ramifications of the Pandemic hit but that means by next June, Fred will have had the full cost of our cruise for around 15 months. Consequently, with these factors, I would expect an upgrade (from the outside booked) to a balcony (or at least lanai) cabin and either some additional obc or an upgrade to all-inclusive.

[tring]

46 minutes ago, Britboys said:

I will certainly be looking for some flexibility and compassion from Fred. If they do go to Kiel, my guess is that they would drop Travemunde completely and reduce time in either/both Amsterdam and Antwerp.

The change of ship is not a problem per se, although I am disappointed that I will never have sailed on Boudicca. Fred made a big point of the canal transits in their publicity and it was a major factor in my cruise buddy and I accepting a transfer to another cruise when our May one went due to Covid. We had already paid the balance for this May before the ramifications of the Pandemic hit but that means by next June, Fred will have had the full cost of our cruise for around 15 months. Consequently, with these factors, I would expect an upgrade (from the outside booked) to a balcony (or at least lanai) cabin and either some additional obc or an upgrade to all-inclusive.

 

I cannot find where I saw it now, but am sure I read somewhere this morning that Fred is to allocate our new cabins, but then give us chance to discuss with him regards that.  If my memory about that is correct, then I suspect he will be flexible to however much he feels he needs to be with individuals, but perhaps not give a lot as a standard offer to everyone.  You have a very good case and no doubt at all it is a major change to you, even without any other port/time changes, so a very individual situation.  Assuming the ship used from Dover is Amsterdam, she has azipods so will at least be better to manoeuvre than her sister, so an advantage in some itineraries, though maybe not yours.

 

I have gleaned some information from Fred's Fb page.  One of his staff said the extra speed of Borealis will mean some interesting itineraries from Liverpool and it was also said they are looking into offering flexible dining rather than just set sittings.  I had asked about smoking on balconies and eventually the member of staff said she will try to find out if there are any thoughts regards that.  I do not see why they could not at least ban it from one side of the ships, even if they leave the other side for smokers as some will be booked on Black Watch and Boudicca balconies at present.

[gstewart]

Just watched Fred’s announcement.  Seems Bolette will be based in Dover and take over Boudicca’s itineraries. Borealis will be based in Liverpool and take over Black Watch’s itineraries.

 

I will be interested to see if they bring them to Rosyth first - will they get under the Forth Bridges?

[Britboys]

12 minutes ago, gstewart said:

Just watched Fred’s announcement.  Seems Bolette will be based in Dover and take over Boudicca’s itineraries. Borealis will be based in Liverpool and take over Black Watch’s itineraries.

 

I will be interested to see if they bring them to Rosyth first - will they get under the Forth Bridges?

A number of the press notices released by Fred Olsen have stated that the two new ships will join the others in Rosyth - notably recently to say that work will be carried out to help bring them in line with their fleetmates. Presumably including putting them into the company livery.

[showingdiva]

53 minutes ago, gstewart said:

Just watched Fred’s announcement.  Seems Bolette will be based in Dover and take over Boudicca’s itineraries. Borealis will be based in Liverpool and take over Black Watch’s itineraries.

 

I will be interested to see if they bring them to Rosyth first - will they get under the Forth Bridges?

 

That is currently the plan.   However, both ships have little more than a 1m clearance between themselves and the bridges, not taking into consideration any abnormal tides in the Firth of Forth, or bridge gantry work.   As I said previously - "Going to be a tight fit under the Forth Bridges.   Air draft on both ships is 47.9m, and the bridge clearance is 49.2m to Rosyth.   That's likely the reason that Rotterdam has anchored at South Queensferry on her previous visits."

 

Edited August 22, 2020 by showingdiva

[Britboys]

17 hours ago, showingdiva said:

 

That is currently the plan.   However, both ships have little more than a 1m clearance between themselves and the bridges, not taking into consideration any abnormal tides in the Firth of Forth, or bridge gantry work.   As I said previously - "Going to be a tight fit under the Forth Bridges.   Air draft on both ships is 47.9m, and the bridge clearance is 49.2m to Rosyth.   That's likely the reason that Rotterdam has anchored at South Queensferry on her previous visits."

 

Thanks for that information - it definitely confirms for me that I will not be going through the Kiel Canal on Bolette next June, as their bridge clearances are set at 42m.

[JMyrtle]

This is terrible!

 

We dislike large ships, even Balmoral is too big for us and the point everyone has missed, although no longer being able to navigate the Kiel Canal has been commented on, is that the whole point of "Fred" is access to smaller ports and easy access into town. 

 

My husband is terrified of small boats and open water( he was even unhappy on the Saga Pearl) so we are always very careful to check there are no anchor/ tender ports before we book anything. 

 

We are booked to go to Iceland next June on Boudicca, if the new bigger ship has anchor or tender ports we will have to cancel. 

[Britboys]

40 minutes ago, JMyrtle said:

This is terrible!

 

We dislike large ships, even Balmoral is too big for us and the point everyone has missed, although no longer being able to navigate the Kiel Canal has been commented on, is that the whole point of "Fred" is access to smaller ports and easy access into town. 

 

My husband is terrified of small boats and open water( he was even unhappy on the Saga Pearl) so we are always very careful to check there are no anchor/ tender ports before we book anything. 

 

We are booked to go to Iceland next June on Boudicca, if the new bigger ship has anchor or tender ports we will have to cancel.

Looking at cruiseiceland.com, it appears all your ports there should be big enough to take Bolette alongside. Also, I have been to Kirkwall aboard Queen Elizabeth, so that will certainly take Bolette too. No other ship appears to be in Kirkwall the day you are due there, so no problem.

Going forward, you will find it a problem to find smaller cruise ships operating ex-UK. The two new Saga ships are a very similar size to Bolette and Borealis. Silversea, Azamara and Oceania all operate smaller ships but with very few UK departures. If you are happy to fly-cruise, you will have more choice.

[rkacruiser]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:34 PM, ovccruiser said:

 Boudicca, which we plan to retire from our fleet.

 

I am sorry to learn this as well.  I sailed on her in 1980 for two cruises when she was the Royal Viking Sky.  I rate my experiences on her over my experiences on my 2008 world cruise aboard the Amsterdam.  

[JMyrtle]

Thank you for the reassurance, we have had four cruises cancelled this year already, I know this must sound rather excessive but it's actually the same cruise from last March rebooked and cancelled over and over again so we were thinking " oh no not again, will we ever see Iceland". 

[tring]

I am thinking that there will be no equivalent to the terrace balconies on Black Watch and Boudicca.  We have booked these a number of times as smoking is not allowed on them.  If Fred continues to allow smoking on all the balconies on the new ships we would not be interested in one, so more likely to go with another cruise line for itineraries like the Boudicca fly cruises in hot climes. 

 

It also makes me wonder if it the chance of smoke drifting from the balcony next door, would put a lot of other people off booking Fred's balconies as well.  We were told by an Oceans/sales rep on Boudicca a couple of years ago that they were looking at changing the policy in a few years, but not happened yet. They would need to leave some smoking balconies for smokers who have booked cruises on the older ships already, but could easily do that.

 

I have also been looking at the deck plans for Rotterdam and there is not much open deck space on the top of the ship, like with the retiring, smaller ships.  Mainly just the pool deck which has a retractable roof. I do not like those as they never open completely and they are often kept closed even when it is dry and a fairly reasonable temperature, so not much access to fresh air.  Now begining to  feel the new ships are perhaps not for us as we could feel quite closed in.

Edited August 24, 2020 by tring

[Chrisifab]

6 minutes ago, tring said:

I am thinking that there will be no equivalent to the terrace balconies on Black Watch and Boudicca.  We have booked these a number of times as smoking is not allowed on them.  If Fred continues to allow smoking on all the balconies on the new ships we would not be interested in one, so more likely to go with another cruise line for itineraries like the Boudicca fly cruises in hot climes. 

 

It also makes me wonder if it the chance of smoke drifting from the balcony next door, would put a lot of other people off booking Fred's balconies as well.  We were told by an Oceans/sales rep on Boudicca a couple of years ago that they were looking at changing the policy in a few years, but not happened yet. They would need to leave some smoking balconies for smokers who have booked cruises on the older ships already, but could easily do that.

 

I have also been looking at the deck plans for Rotterdam and there is not much open deck space on the top of the ship, like with the retiring, smaller ships.  Mainly just the pool deck which has a retractable roof. I do not like those as they never open completely and they are often kept closed even when it is dry and a fairly reasonable temperature, so not much access to fresh air.  Now begining to  feel the new ships are perhaps not for us as we could feel quite closed in.

I haven’t sailed the Rotterdam or Amsterdam, but I have extensively sailed the Ryndam when she was with Holland America (identical layout, just slightly smaller in size), and I can say that there is plenty of outside space on these ships.

 

Terrace balcony equivalents would be the Lanai cabins and veranda decks. 
 

The layout of these ships is honestly the best I’ve experienced; everything just ‘flows’. You never feel like you’re far from where you need to be, and everything feels like it’s ‘where it should be’.

 

The gym, spa and salon give amazing morning workout views, after which breakfast is just a stroll past the pool. The sports deck (one deck up) is surprisingly huge, with lots of open space. The promenades are beautiful. The Lido decks have huge open spaces just beyond the marketplace.

 

I like open deck space, and was lucky enough to sail on the Southern Cross when she was Ocean Breeze. That ship had tons of open deck space up top, but it was mostly unused. Ryndam felt more utilised.

 

Majesty of the Seas had a bigger atrium than these ships (I do like space), but outside space was wall to wall sun lounger.

 

QE2 felt surprisingly cramped in bad weather when the pools were closed and we are all forced inside.

 

I believe these ships will enable Fred to be more competitive in their pricing and offer a better overall product. 
 

Regards the smoking, I definitely agree (even as a smoker) that smoking on balconies should be restricted to either port or starboard, if at all. Not only is it a fire hazard, it’s downright rude to expect others to breathe in smoky air that can kill them or give them cancer. I wouldn’t choose to smoke on my balcony regardless, as the lady next door might end up having to wear a formal dress that stinks of smoke that evening, and that’s not nice at all. Just give me a smoking area and I’ll make my way to it.

[Britboys]

10 hours ago, Chrisifab said:

I haven’t sailed the Rotterdam or Amsterdam, but I have extensively sailed the Ryndam when she was with Holland America (identical layout, just slightly smaller in size), and I can say that there is plenty of outside space on these ships.

 

Terrace balcony equivalents would be the Lanai cabins and veranda decks. 
 

The layout of these ships is honestly the best I’ve experienced; everything just ‘flows’. You never feel like you’re far from where you need to be, and everything feels like it’s ‘where it should be’.

 

The gym, spa and salon give amazing morning workout views, after which breakfast is just a stroll past the pool. The sports deck (one deck up) is surprisingly huge, with lots of open space. The promenades are beautiful. The Lido decks have huge open spaces just beyond the marketplace.

 

I like open deck space, and was lucky enough to sail on the Southern Cross when she was Ocean Breeze. That ship had tons of open deck space up top, but it was mostly unused. Ryndam felt more utilised.

 

Majesty of the Seas had a bigger atrium than these ships (I do like space), but outside space was wall to wall sun lounger.

 

QE2 felt surprisingly cramped in bad weather when the pools were closed and we are all forced inside.

 

I believe these ships will enable Fred to be more competitive in their pricing and offer a better overall product. 
 

Regards the smoking, I definitely agree (even as a smoker) that smoking on balconies should be restricted to either port or starboard, if at all. Not only is it a fire hazard, it’s downright rude to expect others to breathe in smoky air that can kill them or give them cancer. I wouldn’t choose to smoke on my balcony regardless, as the lady next door might end up having to wear a formal dress that stinks of smoke that evening, and that’s not nice at all. Just give me a smoking area and I’ll make my way to it.

Sounds good. I really don't understand why they allow smoking on balconies. Most cruise lines banned this after a fire started in a cabin on a Princess ship when a cigarette end was drawn back into the cabin from the balcony. Maybe Fred will change the policy now that they will have so many more balconies.

I hope you are right about them being able to offer more competitive pricing - especially for solo pax! 

[tring]

11 hours ago, Chrisifab said:

I haven’t sailed the Rotterdam or Amsterdam, but I have extensively sailed the Ryndam when she was with Holland America (identical layout, just slightly smaller in size), and I can say that there is plenty of outside space on these ships.

 

Terrace balcony equivalents would be the Lanai cabins and veranda decks. 
 

The layout of these ships is honestly the best I’ve experienced; everything just ‘flows’. You never feel like you’re far from where you need to be, and everything feels like it’s ‘where it should be’.

 

The gym, spa and salon give amazing morning workout views, after which breakfast is just a stroll past the pool. The sports deck (one deck up) is surprisingly huge, with lots of open space. The promenades are beautiful. The Lido decks have huge open spaces just beyond the marketplace.

 

I like open deck space, and was lucky enough to sail on the Southern Cross when she was Ocean Breeze. That ship had tons of open deck space up top, but it was mostly unused. Ryndam felt more utilised.

 

Majesty of the Seas had a bigger atrium than these ships (I do like space), but outside space was wall to wall sun lounger.

 

QE2 felt surprisingly cramped in bad weather when the pools were closed and we are all forced inside.

 

I believe these ships will enable Fred to be more competitive in their pricing and offer a better overall product. 
 

Regards the smoking, I definitely agree (even as a smoker) that smoking on balconies should be restricted to either port or starboard, if at all. Not only is it a fire hazard, it’s downright rude to expect others to breathe in smoky air that can kill them or give them cancer. I wouldn’t choose to smoke on my balcony regardless, as the lady next door might end up having to wear a formal dress that stinks of smoke that evening, and that’s not nice at all. Just give me a smoking area and I’ll make my way to it.

 

Thanks a lot for your insight, perhaps I am just in an umpty mood 🙂 

 

It is only with being on the ship we will actually make our own minds up, so will likely try one of them, though I do see Amsterdam has some public space to the rear of a couple of decks, which is taken up with cabins on Rotterdam.  TBH we are not lovers of any ship that we would call big, and that includes the P&O mid sized ships, though we do sail on them sometimes, we found Arcadia particularly closed in.  None seem to have the spaces that can be found on Fred ships if you go up to the very top decks (e.g. deck 9 on Boudicca as well as the wings above pool deck and the two decks above pool deck).  It all depends largely on how many people are on board and the climate, so will have to see.  There is a large pool area which has the optional cover, so it may be that a lot of people use that space and there will not be the competition for the rear deck, that I fear.  We much prefer an open aspect rather than a closed in pool deck, but perhaps just our choice.

 

We also make good use of observation lounges, but proportionately, they do not seem to be as big as the ones in Black Watch, Boudicca and Balmoral, but again we shall see.  Fred has started having fancy afternoon teas and "cheese and wine events", (which are spaced out right across the front of the observation lounges) when in scenic locations so it can be very difficult to find a place to sit, even before and after the events as they keep the area set up for quite a while before.  We have come to the conclusion that the only way is to pay for the "event" even if we do not really want to partake, just for the sake of getting a chance to sit there.  They are the sort of areas when balconies do not totally work as most only have the view on one side of the ship.  The aft facing balconies would be of interest to us regards that, but can I ask if there is much vibration at the back of Rotterdam (I have seen reports of that)?  I am thinking it would mainly be a problem at lower levels and not bad on Amsterdam as she has pods, which I think are better regards that. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by tring

[ovccruiser]

I wouldn't worry too much about future cruises, Cunard have cancelled all cruises until April 2021 at the earliest and are in the process of rescheduling other cruises. I am sure all the other cruise lines will need to follow, this pandemic is not over or anywhere near it.