Jump to content
Cruise Critic Community
llawrence

Bahamas Ban US Residents

Recommended Posts

39 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

It would look like the rest of the developed world, like the NE of the US.  Where you get the total prevalence of the disease to a low level, so you can reopen your economy somewhat with universal mask usage and play whack-a-mole with contact tracing and partial closures until a vaccine comes along.  You know, the rational by-the-numbers strategy that all the 1st world countries took.  Not like the 2nd/3rd world countries of Russia, Brazil, India, and the US.

 

Mortality rate is a false herring.  Especially when you are talking about travelers.  It's because the first part of this wave 1.5 in the US was driven by young people, who have a lower mortality rate.  But they then transferred to older people; the average age of infected is going back up up again, and if you look at the total US data, the mortalities are going up up again, as there is a lag between covid detection and death, and a lag as young people are transferring it to older people.

 

Other countries don't care if the people coming into their countries with covid are young or old, they will spread it all the same.  So mortality rate is just about the worst statistic to look at.  

 

So options are like asia and europe.  If you are like Asia, then you have universal mask usage, and more intrusive contact tracing.  With those in place, countries like singapore, taiwan, HK, and Japan have mostly been able to keep their economy running like normal.  restaurants are still open, people are finding ways to work from home, executives are taking temporary paycuts so they don't have to lay off workers, rotating partial closures on a flexible scale as areas have more or less cases.  you know, 1st world stuff. (Japan has unemployment of 2.6%!!!!!!)

 

Or even like europe, where you do a long lockdown to get cases under control.  Use that lockdown period to increase testing capabilities and a centralized contact tracing.  And reopen as cases are very low and only allow travel between similarly low countries.

 

I don't understand how some Americans are so blind that they cannot accept that right now, their COVID response is the laughing stock of the world.

Can’t like your post enough.  Thank you.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said:

Italy. Remember how bad they were? See how they flattened out.

146624028_ScreenShot2020-07-20at6_05_45PM.png.86770697bd6731bc3257676fa39293c3.png

 

US. See how we never flattened out but opened up anyway and are going up up up?

1450165710_ScreenShot2020-07-20at6_04_29PM.png.13e84db06e602558ef8302dbe7462062.png

 

Note these are total cases so can never go better than flat... the curve won't go back down for instance.

 

3 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said:

Here's Bahamas.

1024137791_ScreenShot2020-07-20at6_35_21PM.png.544b5a3ac64c8b34c8371db3ca8bf6b3.png

Anyone trying to make a comparison between these three graphs should make sure that they are paying full attention to the scale. The x-axis is identical for all three, but the y-axis varies significantly:

Bahamas - 0, 100, 200

Italy - 0, 100K, 200K, 300K

US - 0, 2M, 4M

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

Anyone trying to make a comparison between these three graphs should make sure that they are paying full attention to the scale. The x-axis is identical for all three, but the y-axis varies significantly:

Bahamas - 0, 100, 200

Italy - 0, 100K, 200K, 300K

US - 0, 2M, 4M

 

Definitely... I was showing flattening vs non-flattening which is true regardless of the number of cases.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, Cachecara said:

I can’t blame them or anyone else that chooses to ban USA. 
Until people act like mature, responsible adults vs ignorant, selfish children, I don’t see a curve reversal. Jmo

Some individuals and groups do their own thing.  Do not care about others.

Some groups are out partying and protesting in large groups....&  in a big way.

 

..Police had to clear out 700+ night time  beach party goers at Long Beach NY.. most without masks and NO distancing.   Really disgraceful...

 

The rest of us suffer...most of us worked very hard to flatten the curve in NY but they are out to ruin it for everyone!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, twins_to_alaska said:

 

Definitely... I was showing flattening vs non-flattening which is true regardless of the number of cases.

There are those on CC whom I feared might focus on the similarity between the US and Bahamian curves and fail to realize the difference in absolute numbers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, hvbaskey said:

 

Neither can the Toronto Blue Jays (MLB) - announced this week, they are not permitted to play in Toronto (even with an empty stadium).    They need to find a new home base until further notice.

Whoa!

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

It would look like the rest of the developed world, like the NE of the US.  Where you get the total prevalence of the disease to a low level, so you can reopen your economy somewhat with universal mask usage and play whack-a-mole with contact tracing and partial closures until a vaccine comes along.  You know, the rational by-the-numbers strategy that all the 1st world countries took.  Not like the 2nd/3rd world countries of Russia, Brazil, India, and the US.

 

Mortality rate is a false herring.  Especially when you are talking about travelers.  It's because the first part of this wave 1.5 in the US was driven by young people, who have a lower mortality rate.  But they then transferred to older people; the average age of infected is going back up up again, and if you look at the total US data, the mortalities are going up up again, as there is a lag between covid detection and death, and a lag as young people are transferring it to older people.

 

Other countries don't care if the people coming into their countries with covid are young or old, they will spread it all the same.  So mortality rate is just about the worst statistic to look at.  

 

So options are like asia and europe.  If you are like Asia, then you have universal mask usage, and more intrusive contact tracing.  With those in place, countries like singapore, taiwan, HK, and Japan have mostly been able to keep their economy running like normal.  restaurants are still open, people are finding ways to work from home, executives are taking temporary paycuts so they don't have to lay off workers, rotating partial closures on a flexible scale as areas have more or less cases.  you know, 1st world stuff. (Japan has unemployment of 2.6%!!!!!!)

 

Or even like europe, where you do a long lockdown to get cases under control.  Use that lockdown period to increase testing capabilities and a centralized contact tracing.  And reopen as cases are very low and only allow travel between similarly low countries.

 

I don't understand how some Americans are so blind that they cannot accept that right now, their COVID response is the laughing stock of the world.

 

Very well and rationally said.  🌻

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cachecara said:

I can’t blame them or anyone else that chooses to ban USA. 
Until people act like mature, responsible adults vs ignorant, selfish children, I don’t see a curve reversal. Jmo

 

Oh, so never then......  :classic_sad:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The news media in Athens. GA (University of GA) showed at bar packed with young people partying away...no masks...no social distancing. Really dumb. Wonder why the rest of the world wants to ban Americans from traveling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, zitsky said:

 

Maybe we should start making a list of the places we can still go to.  No Canada, No Europe, No Bahamas.  What about Mexico and the Caribbean?

No Australia, No New Zealand, No UK, No Brazil (as if you'd want to go there at the moment)

The list goes on

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
14 hours ago, verizon said:

That’s very true.I hope Celebrity will delete Bahamas in future cruises as a port stop.

Not just Celebrity - why not all of the cruise lines ? (Tongue in cheek)

Edited by GeroWA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

It would look like the rest of the developed world, like the NE of the US.  Where you get the total prevalence of the disease to a low level, so you can reopen your economy somewhat with universal mask usage and play whack-a-mole with contact tracing and partial closures until a vaccine comes along.  You know, the rational by-the-numbers strategy that all the 1st world countries took.  Not like the 2nd/3rd world countries of Russia, Brazil, India, and the US.

 

Mortality rate is a false herring.  Especially when you are talking about travelers.  It's because the first part of this wave 1.5 in the US was driven by young people, who have a lower mortality rate.  But they then transferred to older people; the average age of infected is going back up up again, and if you look at the total US data, the mortalities are going up up again, as there is a lag between covid detection and death, and a lag as young people are transferring it to older people.

 

Other countries don't care if the people coming into their countries with covid are young or old, they will spread it all the same.  So mortality rate is just about the worst statistic to look at.  

 

So options are like asia and europe.  If you are like Asia, then you have universal mask usage, and more intrusive contact tracing.  With those in place, countries like singapore, taiwan, HK, and Japan have mostly been able to keep their economy running like normal.  restaurants are still open, people are finding ways to work from home, executives are taking temporary paycuts so they don't have to lay off workers, rotating partial closures on a flexible scale as areas have more or less cases.  you know, 1st world stuff. (Japan has unemployment of 2.6%!!!!!!)

 

Or even like europe, where you do a long lockdown to get cases under control.  Use that lockdown period to increase testing capabilities and a centralized contact tracing.  And reopen as cases are very low and only allow travel between similarly low countries.

 

I don't understand how some Americans are so blind that they cannot accept that right now, their COVID response is the laughing stock of the world.

Overall I agree with your post.  I have similar thoughts.  And deep frustrations as an American who followed all the lockdown and mask rules since March in a northeast state that followed all the rules since March too.  Our cases have been in control and we have had phased re-opening pretty much like the European model.  But we are now still threatened from surges happening in other states.  It is disheartening.  Are some younger Americans "blind" as you say or just don't seem to care?  I think it is the latter.  But it is not all Americans.  We know we are a "laughing stock" to some in other countries, but what is there to laugh at really?  The misery of some of us who did the right things but still are hopelessly stuck in this mess? The tragedy of seeing some of our friends and family members pass away before their time?  That is not very funny to me anyway. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's interesting perspective on how frustrating changes like this must be. This is just one day and one obstacle...

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, hcat said:

Some individuals and groups do their own thing.  Do not care about others.

Some groups are out partying and protesting in large groups....&  in a big way.

 

..Police had to clear out 700+ night time  beach party goers at Long Beach NY.. most without masks and NO distancing.   Really disgraceful...

 

The rest of us suffer...most of us worked very hard to flatten the curve in NY but they are out to ruin it for everyone!

Follow  up on this  total failure.

 

NYC  apparently closed its beaches and then allegedly arranged for busses  to take its residents to beaches outside NYC . Maybe also state parks.. which are open to  State residents.

 

Now in response, City of Long Beach   NY will no longer issue  beach day passes for weekends and  the  beach will close at dusk.

 

Have to wonder how much Covid will spread because of fiascos like this..700 partiers on the beach...no distancing, few masks!

 

Maybe no one will ever accept US cruisers!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, paulh84 said:

Here's interesting perspective on how frustrating changes like this must be. This is just one day and one obstacle...

 

 

 

 

Wow.. it is madness !

Sorry for the crew...hope they at least hear back on the test results in time to fly somewhere!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

Overall I agree with your post.  I have similar thoughts.  And deep frustrations as an American who followed all the lockdown and mask rules since March in a northeast state that followed all the rules since March too.  Our cases have been in control and we have had phased re-opening pretty much like the European model.  But we are now still threatened from surges happening in other states.  It is disheartening.  Are some younger Americans "blind" as you say or just don't seem to care?  I think it is the latter.  But it is not all Americans.  We know we are a "laughing stock" to some in other countries, but what is there to laugh at really?  The misery of some of us who did the right things but still are hopelessly stuck in this mess? The tragedy of seeing some of our friends and family members pass away before their time?  That is not very funny to me anyway. 

Agree.. good  post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, hcat said:

Wow.. it is madness !

Sorry for the crew...hope they at least hear back on the test results in time to fly somewhere!

Seems similar to how Ft Laderdale handled the humanitarian need to get pasengers off ships in their port! Hope cruisers  will remember !

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, TeeRick said:

 Are some younger Americans "blind" as you say or just don't seem to care? 

Or could they be lacking effective leadership on most levels?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, lyndarra said:

Or could they be lacking effective leadership on most levels?

 

More likely poor upbringing,  failure of  parents and schools to instill good  values.. 

 

Selfish people who are  lacking a sense of personal responsibility....feeling entitled and invincible and not giving a care about their family and  others in the community! 

 

Just like some cruisers who believe the rules do not apply to them!

Sad!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Absolutely, that's what we're doing in New York, ban people coming in from certain states; look at the US, and see which state has it under control! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
56 minutes ago, hcat said:

 

More likely poor upbringing,  failure of  parents and schools to instill good  values.. 

 

Selfish people who are  lacking a sense of personal responsibility....feeling entitled and invincible and not giving a care about their family and  others in the community! 

 

Just like some cruisers who believe the rules do not apply to them!

Sad!

Sounds like our current leadership.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Swampbabe said:

Sounds like our current leadership.

 

Newsflash, Canada's virus rates are now climbing, it is not only the US.

 

Culprits, now the focus is on the young people, they are the majority of new cases. In Canada, beaches are jammed, many parties in bars etc, young people not wearing masks - all the same activity references I see repeated over and over on CC and in American media. We are having many anti-mask demonstrations.

 

There is now talk of walking back stage 3 openings in Ontario due to the surge in cases.

 

It is said our surge is later than the US because Canada is more north and our summer behaviors are later than in Florida, Texas.

 

Your leadership in the US, at the federal level, is the same as Canada's - an ATM machine for everyone. Our federal leadership is barely visible and our Parliament is suspended by our Prime Minister.

 

Look around the globe more, you will find similar trends and actions as per God Bless America. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
53 minutes ago, Doubt It said:

 

There is now talk of walking back stage 3 openings in Ontario due to the surge in cases.

 

 

 
Ontario (from which I am a resident) was not ready for Phase 3, in my humble opinion. 

 

BC?  Yes!  Maritimes?  Yes!   Ontario & Quebec = NO!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, lyndarra said:

Or could they be lacking effective leadership on most levels?

I personally would like to believe that every adult individual regardless of age is totally responsible for themselves and their actions. No doubt leadership plays an important role for a lot of younger adult Americans just like us older folks. I think important to the ones who are connected and aware of others and of their impact on others.  There are many many younger Americans who are in that category although all are getting included in the backlash against their generation unfortunately.     But what type of leadership is most influential for the subset of young people in the US who go to bars without masks and hold coronavirus parties?  I am not sure that they pay attention to or are influenced much by political or religious or educational leadership.  They are just brought up to be selfish and self-centered I think. I have no other explanation for it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Forum Jump
    • Categories
      • Forum Assistance
      • New Cruisers
      • Cruise Lines “A – O”
      • Cruise Lines “P – Z”
      • River Cruising
      • ROLL CALLS
      • Digital Photography & Cruise Technology
      • Special Interest Cruising
      • Cruise Discussion Topics
      • UK Cruising
      • Australia & New Zealand Cruisers
      • North American Homeports
      • Ports of Call
      • Cruise Conversations
×
×
  • Create New...