Bahamas Ban US Residents

[Charles4515]

 
Bo,  Azamara uses R class ships with under 700 passengers if fully booked.  However they prefer European and other non U.S. ports.

The Azamara ships and for that matter the ships of the other lines mentioned are used mostly for exotic ports that can’t take larger ships. As a result they command a higher per diem which which passengers are willing to pay for those ports. Unlikely they would use them for Key West.


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[hvbaskey]

Cruising (Maid of the Mist Vessel) yesterday in Niagara Falls .... Sigh ....
Source Link:  https://reut.rs/32IVG0i

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by hvbaskey

[Bo1953]

1 hour ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Bo,  Azamara uses R class ships with under 700 passengers if fully booked.  However they prefer European and other non U.S. ports.

 

To the others that think U.S. residents being barred from the Bahamas is a wonderful anti American sentiment, too bad.  It's irreverent.  No cruise ships are sailing until AT LAST October.  So what difference does closing it's borders now make anyway? A one day POC is more than enough for me.

c - you are quite correct that Azamara 'prefers' Euro ports, yet they do sail in the Caribbean and specifically to KW, as per an itinerary search for same.

 

bon voyage

 

 

[Bo1953]

17 minutes ago, hvbaskey said:

Yesterday in Niagara Falls .... Sigh ....
Source Link:  https://reut.rs/32IVG0i

 

 

 

Well, if there is a Martini Bar aboard, I could handle it... LOL

 

bon voyage

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, Charles4515 said:

 

The Azamara ships and for that matter the ships of the other lines mentioned are used mostly for exotic ports that can’t take larger ships. As a result they command a higher per diem which which passengers are willing to pay for those ports. Unlikely they would use them for Key West.


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In fact, all of them have cruises that stop in Key West, including Azamara.

[npcl]

On 7/21/2020 at 6:21 AM, paulh84 said:

Here's interesting perspective on how frustrating changes like this must be. This is just one day and one obstacle...

 

 

 

 

Does anybody else find that their idea of a creative solution translates into finding a way to bypass the CDC instead of working with them.  So their solution is to go to the Bahamas, test the crew so they can get off, then put them on a plane and fly them back through the US.  This is so much like the cruise lines.  They could have worked with the CDC and by doing so gotten permission to fly out of the US.  But they don't do the testing and reporting the CDC requires, but they will do testing in the Bahamas so they can find a way to bypass the CDC restrictions. In a way kind of thumbing their nose at the CDC by following the letter of the rule, but not the intent of the rule.  

 

In another case cannot fly commercial out of the US so they cruise to Barbados, where the airport is shutdown and they have to charter flights, just like they would in the US. Don't see how they are saving money there since they are still having to charter flights.

 

The major difference in both of these cases is by doing so they avoid having to report the test results and medical information to the CDC. Where the results are made public.

 

 

Edited July 22, 2020 by npcl

[Swampbabe]

3 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I personally would like to believe that every adult individual regardless of age is totally responsible for themselves and their actions. No doubt leadership plays an important role for a lot of younger adult Americans just like us older folks. I think important to the ones who are connected and aware of others and of their impact on others.  There are many many younger Americans who are in that category although all are getting included in the backlash against their generation unfortunately.     But what type of leadership is most influential for the subset of young people in the US who go to bars without masks and hold coronavirus parties?  I am not sure that they pay attention to or are influenced much by political or religious or educational leadership.  They are just brought up to be selfish and self-centered I think. I have no other explanation for it.

FWIW, here in Florida I see plenty of middle aged folks and seniors that also don’t wear masks. Being selfish and self centered cuts across all age groups.

[Doubt It]

TeeRick, I greatly appreciate your great post above. It speaks to the cultural change that has happened over the past 2 generations.

 

My elderly grandparents view people today (of all ages) as selfish and preoccupied with the trivial.  This does happen when a society gets to the top of the Maslow hierarchy of needs. Many in the G20 are at the top and can spend their time on micro-aggressions and  take issue with everything. Or we criticize everything like we most all do on CC!!

 

My grandparents know about community sacrifice, personal sacrifice, working on a big project as a team (war, interstate, st. lawrence seaway etc). This ability and actual desire to create collective greatness (like the public trust doctrine or all attack this virus with all the knowledge and omph we have) and care of others is rapidly disappearing.

 

We are the most selfish society ever. Me, me, me. Not everyone, but many.

 

The use of masks (I have a big pile of N95's that I use) is simply an example of the loss of the collective sacrifice that previous generations took as routine.

 

I see people of all ages not wearing masks and I just shake my head and remember my grandparents recent recollections.

 

It is not the responsibility of the President or Prime Ministers or Governors or Premiers etc to keep having to remind people to wear a mask. Given the high level of education we have in the G20, the amount of media dissemination of key information, if this is not common sense by now, then we are doomed.

 

I hope that we can all get cruising at some point, but this is a monster enemy we all have.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[zitsky]

When the greatest generation won WW II, I know there were messages from local, state and federal about how to help.  I don't see the difference today except it took too long for the President to set an example.

 

[Fouremco]

11 minutes ago, Doubt It said:

It is not the responsibility of the President or Prime Ministers or Governors or Premiers etc to keep having to remind people to wear a mask.

I agree with everything in your post - except this. Of course it is the responsibility of our political leadership to remind people to take all precautionary measures if they fail to do so. And if reminding them doesn't work, then the requirement needs to be mandated and enforced.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

49 minutes ago, Dwight1 said:

Absolute true. PM order includes all public and private beaches, no exceptions.


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Well, the Disney Wonder (no incidents of COVID or positive tests since mid-May) was docked at Castaway Monday and Tuesday and all crew not working were allowed off and they still have US crew aboard.

 

Yes, it would be different obviously with passengers on the ship. But at least Monday and Tuesday there were people disembarking at Castaway.

[ORV]

5 hours ago, Charles4515 said:

 

The Azamara ships and for that matter the ships of the other lines mentioned are used mostly for exotic ports that can’t take larger ships. As a result they command a higher per diem which which passengers are willing to pay for those ports. Unlikely they would use them for Key West.


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I was just on an Oceania ship in Dec that stopped in KW, happens every winter with them. 

[Bo1953]

4 hours ago, npcl said:

 

Does anybody else find that their idea of a creative solution translates into finding a way to bypass the CDC instead of working with them.  So their solution is to go to the Bahamas, test the crew so they can get off, then put them on a plane and fly them back through the US.  This is so much like the cruise lines.  They could have worked with the CDC and by doing so gotten permission to fly out of the US.  But they don't do the testing and reporting the CDC requires, but they will do testing in the Bahamas so they can find a way to bypass the CDC restrictions. In a way kind of thumbing their nose at the CDC by following the letter of the rule, but not the intent of the rule.  

 

In another case cannot fly commercial out of the US so they cruise to Barbados, where the airport is shutdown and they have to charter flights, just like they would in the US. Don't see how they are saving money there since they are still having to charter flights.

 

The major difference in both of these cases is by doing so they avoid having to report the test results and medical information to the CDC. Where the results are made public.

 

 

Are you sure the test results are not being reported to the CDC?

 

I would venture to guess that chartering flights out of Barbados is far easier than the US at the moment for a variety of reasons.

 

In health and bon voyage

[Charles4515]

I was just on an Oceania ship in Dec that stopped in KW, happens every winter with them. 

Yes but those ships don’t call there regularly. That was what I was referring to. The large ships had them on weekly or every other week itineraries.


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[Bo1953]

5 hours ago, Fouremco said:

In fact, all of them have cruises that stop in Key West, including Azamara.

For once I do my homework, before posting... LOL

 

bon voyage

[Fouremco]

Just now, Bo1953 said:

For once I do my homework, before posting... LOL

 

bon voyage

LOL. It's always good to have your powder dry!

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, WrittenOnYourHeart said:

 

Well, the Disney Wonder (no incidents of COVID or positive tests since mid-May) was docked at Castaway Monday and Tuesday and all crew not working were allowed off and they still have US crew aboard.

 

Yes, it would be different obviously with passengers on the ship. But at least Monday and Tuesday there were people disembarking at Castaway.

The effective date was today, Wednesday, so there was no issue for Monday or Tuesday.

[UnorigionalName]

4 hours ago, npcl said:

 

Does anybody else find that their idea of a creative solution translates into finding a way to bypass the CDC instead of working with them.  So their solution is to go to the Bahamas, test the crew so they can get off, then put them on a plane and fly them back through the US.  This is so much like the cruise lines.  They could have worked with the CDC and by doing so gotten permission to fly out of the US.  But they don't do the testing and reporting the CDC requires, but they will do testing in the Bahamas so they can find a way to bypass the CDC restrictions. In a way kind of thumbing their nose at the CDC by following the letter of the rule, but not the intent of the rule.  

 

In another case cannot fly commercial out of the US so they cruise to Barbados, where the airport is shutdown and they have to charter flights, just like they would in the US. Don't see how they are saving money there since they are still having to charter flights.

 

The major difference in both of these cases is by doing so they avoid having to report the test results and medical information to the CDC. Where the results are made public.

 

 

 

I think it's because that harsh CDC requirements have them spooked.  Especially the line about possible criminal action against executives.  I think they don't want to risk any possibility of criminal charges and would rather spend more money and bypass the US entirely for now.

 

 

[npcl]

9 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

Are you sure the test results are not being reported to the CDC?

 

I would venture to guess that chartering flights out of Barbados is far easier than the US at the moment for a variety of reasons.

 

In health and bon voyage

Not if they are outside of US waters.  The CDC even noted in their most recent updates that certain events had occurred outside of US waters and as a result they did not have complete numbers, only that the lines had ships that had crew test positive when tested in other countries recently.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

4 minutes ago, Fouremco said:

The effective date was today, Wednesday, so there was no issue for Monday or Tuesday.

 

Ah, gotcha.

[npcl]

2 minutes ago, UnorigionalName said:

 

I think it's because that harsh CDC requirements have them spooked.  Especially the line about possible criminal action against executives.  I think they don't want to risk any possibility of criminal charges and would rather spend more money and bypass the US entirely for now.

 

 

The cruise lines have off loaded over 7000 crew, in accordance with those US guidelines using charter flights.  So it does not seem that they are that spooked.

 

The criminal charges pertain to filing false certifications, basically the same risk one faces when they file their taxes.  That the information filed is true.  As is explained in the FAQ on the CDC web site.

[Cachecara]

3 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I agree with everything in your post - except this. Of course it is the responsibility of our political leadership to remind people to take all precautionary measures if they fail to do so. And if reminding them doesn't work, then the requirement needs to be mandated and enforced.

ITA

Our society lives by no shirt, no shoes, no service.  
There are businesses that clearly state no food or drink allowed signs on their doors. 
We have seat belt laws.  We have texting and driving laws.  No smoking areas. 
These and others are not questioned and are enforced.  No one bandies about  personal rights violation for those things.  
Had we had clear, concise direction from our leaders and enforcement in March, we would not be dealing with this in July. 
 

[npcl]

17 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

Are you sure the test results are not being reported to the CDC?

 

I would venture to guess that chartering flights out of Barbados is far easier than the US at the moment for a variety of reasons.

 

In health and bon voyage

Not at the time they did that.  The Barbados airport was complete shut down so all flights had to be charters.  This was also back in the April, May time frame prior to the current unpleasantness, This was also when over 7000 crew was sent out of the US on charters be some lines.

 

The CDC made note in their most recent document that ships outside of US waters and not using US facilities (i.e. do not enter US waters to resupply).  They noted that there were active incidences with crew recently, but that they do not have detailed information due to ships being out side of US waters,

 

Still do you not think it a matter of following the letter but not the intent when they sail to the Bahamas, to fly crew back through the US. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by npcl

[Bo1953]

6 minutes ago, npcl said:

Not at the time they did that.  The Barbados airport was complete shut down so all flights had to be charters.  This was also back in the April, May time frame prior to the current unpleasantness, This was also when over 7000 crew was sent out of the US on charters be some lines.

 

The CDC made note in their most recent document that ships outside of US waters and not using US facilities (i.e. do not enter US waters to resupply).  They noted that there were active incidences with crew recently, but that they do not have detailed information due to ships being out side of US waters,

 

Still do you not think it a matter of following the letter but not the intent when they sail to the Bahamas, to fly crew back through the US. 

It needs to be noted that I do think there is more to this situation, than just trying to get around our CDC.

 

As noted before, if the ships are outside of US water territory, then the intent is moot, is it not?

 

If, as you cite, the CDC indicated that there were 'active incidences' recently, they must be getting info from somewhere/someone, in order to make that statement.

 

Accurate or not.

 

In fact they may have #'s yet until X or any other cruise line makes it official, the detailed info is not citable, I would suggest.

 

bon voyage

[DaveSJ711]

11 hours ago, TeeRick said:

I personally would like to believe that every adult individual regardless of age is totally responsible for themselves and their actions. No doubt leadership plays an important role for a lot of younger adult Americans just like us older folks. I think important to the ones who are connected and aware of others and of their impact on others.  There are many many younger Americans who are in that category although all are getting included in the backlash against their generation unfortunately.     But what type of leadership is most influential for the subset of young people in the US who go to bars without masks and hold coronavirus parties?  I am not sure that they pay attention to or are influenced much by political or religious or educational leadership.  They are just brought up to be selfish and self-centered I think. I have no other explanation for it.

 

Americans aren't the only ones who fail to practice social distancing.  Take a look at these scenes from Vancouver, B.C.

 

https://nationalpost.com/news/covid-19-party-held-on-vancouver-beach-despite-social-distancing-pleas-from-health-officials/wcm/e454acb2-dda0-475d-9f70-51c5480e39a8/