CMV cease trading

[PrincessPete]

For those that aren't aware, CMV ceased trading today. 

Not a lot to add other than being very sad for their office based employees and shipboard crew

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by PrincessPete
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[Britboys]

Very sad indeed. I do hope someone can rescue them from administration.

[grapau27]

5 minutes ago, PrincessPete said:

For those that aren't aware, CMV ceased trading today. 

Not a lot to add other than being very sad for their office based employees and shipboard crew

 

Thanks for informing us.

We never sailed with them but it is sad news when any company ceases trading and loyal staff lose their jobs.

[davemorton]

Sad news.

[showingdiva]

That is sad.  Have got to know a few of their crew over the years, when their ships have visited.   I have everything crossed for their future.

[indiana123]

We have great memories of our time on Magellan.  We planned to try one of the newer ones. No chance now

[boogybaby]

So sad we had a fantastic cruise on Columbus 

[Selbourne]

Very sad news but, without wishing to sound callous, if they aren’t resurrected that will help P&O in the long run. Our only experiences with CMV have been overnight stays, with drinks, dinner, show and breakfast on Marco Polo (in Avonmouth, Bristol) and Magellan (Tilbury). We went with very low expectations but actually quite enjoyed the experiences. We found it to be a bit of a low budget experience (even compared to P&O!). No problem with that if it was a lot cheaper than P&O, but I don’t think they are?

Where they excelled was in attending to my wife, who is a full time wheelchair user. Whilst waiting in the terminal, before embarkation had even started, the chap in charge clocked that my wife was in a wheelchair (even though we were towards the back) and made a bee line for us and said “would you like to come with me”? He got us registered and escorted us to the ship before the crowds. The weird thing was that we bypassed security checks, which seemed weird. At breakfast (buffet only), a waiter approached us and offered to get my wife whatever she would like, which has never happened to us on P&O and is one of the reasons that we avoid the buffet as I am up and down like a blue bottomed fly!

Edited July 20, 2020 by Selbourne

[Hols4]

Hols4

We have found the staff in the buffet on P&O very helpful, if you look for the staff in Orange aprons which say on them can I help ? My wife used a stick and once they get to know you they will look out for you and carry your tray and put things you ask for on your plate. 

[molecrochip]

Very sad for the staff.

 

Puts Carnival in an interesting position. You can be fairly sure that the ship that entered service with CMV last year was not fully paid for. And now the two P&O Australia ships have nowhere to go.

[Son of Anarchy]

Sad news.  Enjoyed our two short times on Marco Polo.  I suppose it will be the end of the road for Marco/Alexander Pushkin.

 

 

 

 

[P&O SUE]

I’ve not sailed with CMV but it is very sad though.

[Bazrat]

Sad news not been on them but sad nonetheless 

[tring]

5 hours ago, molecrochip said:

Very sad for the staff.

 

Puts Carnival in an interesting position. You can be fairly sure that the ship that entered service with CMV last year was not fully paid for. And now the two P&O Australia ships have nowhere to go.

 

Yes very sad for all the staff.

 

Now, will Carnival buy the trade name from the administrators I wonder, like Lord Sterling did with the Swan Hellenic trade name and data base when Carnival let Swan go.

 

Carnival were mentioned as creditors a few weeks ago when the news about CMV first broke, so I thought it would be related to Vasco da Gama  (if I have that right).  Must be a limit to ships that can be sold, so must be a chance of the P&O Oz ships being scrapped, I presume.  

 

Do you know what happened to the two HAL ships that are like the ones Fred has bought?  I think you said they went to the same place, but do not think you mentioned where.

Edited July 21, 2020 by tring

[molecrochip]

3 hours ago, tring said:

 

Yes very sad for all the staff.

 

Now, will Carnival buy the trade name from the administrators I wonder, like Lord Sterling did with the Swan Hellenic trade name and data base when Carnival let Swan go.

 

Carnival were mentioned as creditors a few weeks ago when the news about CMV first broke, so I thought it would be related to Vasco da Gama  (if I have that right).  Must be a limit to ships that can be sold, so must be a chance of the P&O Oz ships being scrapped, I presume.  

 

Do you know what happened to the two HAL ships that are like the ones Fred has bought?  I think you said they went to the same place, but do not think you mentioned where.

Straight fight between Fred and Carnival for the assets? You may say that Carnival wont want the old ships but I believe that they were sold on bare-boat charter arrangements (say across 10 years) at which ownership passed at the very end. If this is the case, they may still belong to Carnival. Depending upon how much Carnival are owed, they may manage a deal to get the rest of the business cheaper whereas Fred would have to commit more funds.

 

Not sure where the other two ships are heading. But they were sold as pairs.

 

 

[Selbourne]

9 minutes ago, molecrochip said:

Straight fight between Fred and Carnival for the assets? You may say that Carnival wont want the old ships but I believe that they were sold on bare-boat charter arrangements (say across 10 years) at which ownership passed at the very end. If this is the case, they may still belong to Carnival. Depending upon how much Carnival are owed, they may manage a deal to get the rest of the business cheaper whereas Fred would have to commit more funds.

 

Not sure where the other two ships are heading. But they were sold as pairs.

 

 

I can understand that, as a creditor, Carnival would wish to reclaim any assets that may legally revert to them, but I’m curious to know why they would be remotely interested in buying anything from CMV? As far as I know, their ships are all quite old and probably wouldn’t fit with Carnivals future requirements. In these GDPR days, they couldn’t even buy their marketing database!
 

Wouldn’t the best plan for Carnival (other than reclaiming assets that belong to them) be to just let CMV fail and then pick up the inevitable transfer of business that will follow? I certainly don’t have the knowledge of the cruise industry that you do, but my perception is that CMV is pretty much the sole ‘budget’ operator in the U.K. so their customers will move to the lower end of the mid-market brands, of which I would think P&O is now in pole position. From a P&O perspective, I would think that doing nothing will be the best option. Zero cost and an assured upside with whatever transfer of business they get. Am I missing something?

[pete14]

Sad for all involved including those who have bookings with them. Whilst few will have paid in full for their cruises at this time, they will have paid deposits which could be significant amounts. It will be interesting to see whether they are able to access refunds and if so, where from, or whether they will have to join a list of creditors to get what could be next to nothing back. 

[wowzz]

14 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

I can understand that, as a creditor, Carnival would wish to reclaim any assets that may legally revert to them, but I’m curious to know why they would be remotely interested in buying anything from CMV? As far as I know, their ships are all quite old and probably wouldn’t fit with Carnivals future requirements. In these GDPR days, they couldn’t even buy their marketing database!
 

Wouldn’t the best plan for Carnival (other than reclaiming assets that belong to them) be to just let CMV fail and then pick up the inevitable transfer of business that will follow? I certainly don’t have the knowledge of the cruise industry that you do, but my perception is that CMV is pretty much the sole ‘budget’ operator in the U.K. so their customers will move to the lower end of the mid-market brands, of which I would think P&O is now in pole position. From a P&O perspective, I would think that doing nothing will be the best option. Zero cost and an assured upside with whatever transfer of business they get. Am I missing something?

Selbourne - seems to me your analysis is spot on. Why take over a line with little in the way of assets, with an aging customer base?

[PrincessPete]

No I don't think you are missing anything Selbourne and I am sure you are completely correct.

Indeed Carnival will retain ownership of the two P&O Australia ships that were going to CMV next year and possibly Vasco de Gama which I guess has not been paid for from when it went to CMV last year.

What they will do with them is another matter though.

As far as the remaining ships in the CMV fleet are concerned - Columbus, Marco Polo, Magellan and Astoria - it is inconceivable that Carnival would want them for any of their brands. They range from 29 to 72 years in age.

Likewise, I can not see Fred being interested in any of them having just taken two far superior (age wise, number of balconies etc) ships from Carnival (Holland America).

You are again right that CMV's customers will probably now move in bulk to P&O or Fred, so even allowing for those that go to Fred, then Carnival overnight have potentially gained a lot of customers without doing anything.

As I have said elsewhere, I am very sad for the CMV crew and staff - as far as their Directors are concerned, though, they were still allowing bookings to be made yesterday shortly before announcing about the administration. Trading while insolvent perhaps? A criminal offence? Not sure, but certainly immoral. Yes, those people will get their money back but will doubtless have to wait months.

Edited July 21, 2020 by PrincessPete
Spelling mistake

[PrincessPete]

Pete 14, yes they will get refunds from ABTA, no idea how long it will take though.

Having said that, some USA passengers of CMV are concerned as the ABTA cover does not apply to them and they are checking insurance policies etc

[Selbourne]

10 minutes ago, pete14 said:

Sad for all involved including those who have bookings with them. Whilst few will have paid in full for their cruises at this time, they will have paid deposits which could be significant amounts. It will be interesting to see whether they are able to access refunds and if so, where from, or whether they will have to join a list of creditors to get what could be next to nothing back. 

If it’s anything like the norm in these circumstances, I should think that their chances of getting money back from CMV is slim to zero, as customers are always at the bottom of the list after banks and senior creditors and usually nothing is left once they are (partially) sorted. I would hope that they will get their money back though, but it will be through ABTA or their credit card providers. 

[No pager thank you]

The guidance from ABTA appears to be indicating to customers to claim from their credit or debit card provider if they booked direct, and only through the ABTA scheme if they used another form of payment. 

 

Customers booking via TAs are being directed via that route.  Customers are also being directed via ATOL if they had booked a fly cruise.

 

This will be interesting to see how the principle of Refund Credit Notes or initially bonded amounts in a FCC are reimbursed to customers.  My sense is that whilst there will be heavy delays, people will receive their money back and will establish the precedent in case of another mid/large company failure in the industry.

 

The lack of trade gossip about rescue packages and the tone of the announcement suggests that the most likely outcome is that Carnival will be resupplied with whatever assets are due and the ships in the fleet will either be scrapped, or sold at a "fire sale" price.  A takeover / rebranding is of course possible, difficult to say at this time.  I could see Fred wanting to add to the fleet (slightly), considering that the strength of her net capacity is far lower than P&O.  If P&O had wanted to segment the brand then I think that we may have seen more rumours by now - just a guess.

 

This is bad news not just for CMV passengers and staff, but also UK customers of P&O and Fred who are likely to see higher base pricing with less competition in that sector of the market.  

Edited July 21, 2020 by No pager thank you
Wording

[molecrochip]

Most of the ships are not owned by them, so the valuable asset is the customer database. If done correctly, this can still be acquired in an Administration, even in these GDPR days. I don't actually think that Carnival will acquire CMV lock stock and barrel but if they are a significant creditor as has been suggested elsewhere, they may be in the box seat for picking over the embers.

[grapau27]

31 minutes ago, PrincessPete said:

No I don't think you are missing anything Selbourne and I am sure you are completely correct.

Indeed Carnival will retain ownership of the two P&O Australia ships that were going to CMV next year and possibly Vasco de Gama which I guess has not been paid for from when it went to CMV last year.

What they will do with them is another matter though.

As far as the remaining ships in the CMV fleet are concerned - Columbus, Marco Polo, Magellan and Astoria - it is inconceivable that Carnival would want them for any of their brands. They range from 29 to 72 years in age.

Likewise, I can not see Fred being interested in any of them having just taken two far superior (age wise, number of balconies etc) ships from Carnival (Holland America).

You are again right that CMV's customers will probably now move in bulk to P&O or Fred, so even allowing for those that go to Fred, then Carnival overnight have potentially gained a lot of customers without doing anything.

As I have said elsewhere, I am very sad for the CMV crew and staff - as far as their Directors are concerned, though, they were still allowing bookings to be made yesterday shortly before announcing about the administration. Trading while insolvent perhaps? A criminal offence? Not sure, but certainly immoral. Yes, those people will get their money back but will doubtless have to wait months.

We used chargeback with our cc provider when Flybe went bust so that would seem the likely course of action for CMV customers.

[Roger88]

That is the thing, this is why its always better to book directly avoiding all those third party offices who may not even exist or cease to exist after you make a purchase via them. Be carefull