Safety Drill enhancement

[AC Stew]

Please refer to same "Safety Drill" subject thread on Royal Caribbean general site. Some very sobering comments from an individual who actually lived through a deadly serious ship evacuation.

[WrittenOnYourHeart]

25 minutes ago, AC Stew said:

Please refer to same "Safety Drill" subject thread on Royal Caribbean general site. Some very sobering comments from an individual who actually lived through a deadly serious ship evacuation.

 

As I said in another thread, I'm sure that in order to gain approval for this, they have had to put safeguards in place so that someone cannot just "click through" or "leave running and walk away" (It can be done - the Board of Ed did it to the Bloodborne Pathogens training we have to do every year but either clicked through or left running and then answered the questions at the end because nothing changed. What a surprise this year when we tried both of those but no dice - quizzes scattered throughout and no clicking through to get to them). TPTB aren't going to approve something that is a requirement if there are loopholes big enough to drive a truck through. And IF there are, I'm sure they'll be rectified promptly.

 

(Even in the age of COVID people look for loopholes to suit them. Disney realized they had one when their initial mask policy was "Except when eating and drinking" so they had people carrying open water bottles around so that when confronted about not wearing a mask they would take a sip and say "I'm drinking!" Quick change of wording on everything "Masks may be removed when eating and drinking, but you must remain stationary while doing so.")

[hcat]

4 hours ago, TeeRick said:

hcat you are very much offering a logical and easy solution!  Online training/courses are used by a lot of people and are easy to do in advance in your own time and in your own language.  I am thinking out loud here but I am wondering if the muster/safety training can be done at home before the cruise?  Ship specific? So Muster 2.0 Home Edition?   Perhaps as a co-requirement when you do the online check-in step prior to the cruise?  Your boarding pass would certify that you completed the required safety training.  At online check-in from home they could show a diagram of your specific cabin's muster station just like they give you a diagram for your luggage tags. Like Muster 2.0,  once onboard at some time prior to ship departure you walk down to the muster station (to prove you know where it is) and get your Sea Pass card scanned and checked off the list.  I think this works for many passengers and greatly aids social distancing.  But not for everybody of course.  So those that did not do the training in advance would need to attend the usual muster drill on the ship- but hopefully with significantly reduced numbers.

 

Wow.. I hoped someone would think this through ....even better than my suggestion.

Not sure it would "pass muster " ( groan) under the present rules and laws..but maybe they should progress with the times too!

 

Puzzling why Royal did not try to eliminate the secondary personal check in  visit.

As I said...halfway there!

[hcat]

3 hours ago, ExArkie said:

In theory, the process could be almost completely automated. After viewing the video, a code is provided for each passenger (as suggested before). The passenger then goes to the muster station, scans his or her card, enters the code, and is recorded as having completed the drill. I'm thinking along the lines of airline self-check-in kiosks for international flights; enter the reservation number, scan your passport, and you get a boarding pass.

 

Without a lot of thought, there are two obvious issues:

1. Confusion or inability for an individual to deal with the self-scan and code entry, perhaps because of language barriers or perhaps because of technical knowledge  inadequacy or whatever reason. Probably would need to have at least one person at the check-in station to assist, who could also help verify that one person does not enter three or four codes (i.e., check-in for other people).
2. There will indubitably be numerous ways devised for checking in other people to avoid the inconvenience of finding one's muster station. Considering the number of people that spend more energy avoiding safety rules than it would take to comply, I'm sure some will consider it a challenge to defeat the system. Other than having a person watch the kiosks (see above), which is not going to be completely effective - and which would remove the efficiency of the process if it were - I don't have a good answer.

Good thoughts..wonder if anyone from Royal or Celeb reads through certain threads???

[TeeRick]

20 hours ago, hcat said:

 

Wow.. I hoped someone would think this through ....even better than my suggestion.

Not sure it would "pass muster " ( groan) under the present rules and laws..but maybe they should progress with the times too!

 

Puzzling why Royal did not try to eliminate the secondary personal check in  visit.

As I said...halfway there!

I think if Muster 2.0 as announced will "pass muster" than using it at home in the same way should be OK.  As long as the certification is valid and you also then include the step of reporting to your muster station to get counted (scanned) prior to ship departure.  But I'm not an expert here.

[Ride-The-Waves]

Wow.  Nothing but work arounds to safety on a ship.  Think about that.  The issue and focus is safety.  Safety is not an inconvenience.  Safety is for your own security.  Not for the ship, not for others.  This is not unlike the anti-maskers claiming masks are not needed.  No different.  Lets all think about safety first.  Being on a ship is inherently dangerous.  One "uneducated"person can cause the deaths of many in an emergency.  I have served 30 years in the US navy.  Safety at sea is critical.  The navy just lost a ship moored to the pier because of fire.  Think: SAFETY!  

[LXA350]

The new process is not less (un) effective than the actual drill. Just like before it's how each individual deals with it. Unfortunately most did not pay any attention to the whole process and went chatting with the flow and end up somehow at their Muster Station, same then went for the Safety Demo / video etc. With the new process it is in everyone's responsibility, which should be taken very seriously to take the time within the first 24 hours on board to familiarize and fully walk the route from the cabin to their Muster Station, not mentioning that you anyway have to visit it and check-in with the staff there before the ship leaves the port.

[hcat]

3 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Wow.  Nothing but work arounds to safety on a ship.  Think about that.  The issue and focus is safety.  Safety is not an inconvenience.  Safety is for your own security.  Not for the ship, not for others.  This is not unlike the anti-maskers claiming masks are not needed.  No different.  Lets all think about safety first.  Being on a ship is inherently dangerous.  One "uneducated"person can cause the deaths of many in an emergency.  I have served 30 years in the US navy.  Safety at sea is critical.  The navy just lost a ship moored to the pier because of fire.  Think: SAFETY!  

Present  drill is totaly  inefffective..half the seats don't even face the screen where the  video is shown. Lots of distraction. More time checking in thsn the drill.

 

Whatever they do we hope they make it worthwhile and educational.

[NMTraveller]

Definitely an improvement and should have been done long ago.

[julia]

I totally agree that the present drill needs to go.  The process is so drawn out (waiting for stragglers!) with many pax well into their drink packages.

I'd love to see the safety drill video viewed in a separate area of the cruise terminal, following check-in (most of the time you're sitting around anyway).  The terminals are huge, and could accommodate several smaller areas where the video can be viewed in groups of 100-200, spaced apart, just prior to boarding.  AND... signs dictating NO talking, NO cell phones.  Keep the video short and serious (none of that silly Bond crap)  Enter area, scan ship card, and move people through continuously, on their way to board the ship.

Done and done.

Edited July 26, 2020 by julia

[hcat]

1 hour ago, julia said:

I totally agree that the present drill needs to go.  The process is so drawn out (waiting for stragglers!) with many pax well into their drink packages.

I'd love to see the safety drill video viewed in a separate area of the cruise terminal, following check-in (most of the time you're sitting around anyway).  The terminals are huge, and could accommodate several smaller areas where the video can be viewed in groups of 100-200, spaced apart, just prior to boarding.  AND... signs dictating NO talking, NO cell phones.  Keep the video short and serious (none of that silly Bond crap)  Enter area, scan ship card, and move people through continuously, on their way to board the ship.

Done and done.

Another good idea!

But is Royal Cs plan a done deal?

[Ride-The-Waves]

At some point, and maybe the COVID-19 pandemic will begin to force both the cruise lines and prospective passengers to think along these lines, those who should not be on ships at sea do to impairments should not be "cruising."  People who cannot walk the stairs (I'm getting there), must use motorized wheel chairs, etc., need to consider other forms of vacation.  Maybe a land based resort where the safety and security of others is not a factor.  Likely the earlier proposed CLIA guidance for those of us with "pre-existing" conditions which enhance COVID-19 symptoms was headed in the right direction.  Of course, cruise lines themselves don't like that since it reduces the potential cruising population and topple with "exceptional" characteristics don't like that either.  Thats said, its not an ADA issue as a cruise ship is a private, not government, facility.  The Mein Schiff 2 cruise recently out of Rostock had elevator floors segmented into quarters - four people at a time.  Can't envision that working on an Oasis class much less a Solstice class vessel.  

[jagoffee]

I am impressed with the new process in theory.  It certainly has the potential to be a significant improvement over the old process.  The end of the muster drill has always been the most crowded time during my cruises.  The new process has to be safer even without the COVID.
Reading some of the comments on this thread makes me wonder why my muster drill experiences have been so different for many years.  I have not carried a life jacket to a muster drill for many years. (I understand it was a safety hazard).  It has been even longer since I have gathered or walked by my actual life boat.  Both of these practices were SOP many years ago.  Good riddance to those previous  processes.
 

I also do not believe that I have been asked to return to my cabin to get one of the life jackets stored in the cabin for a long time. plenty of life jackets at the lifeboats.   I recall being asked to stop by to get any critical medicine if I have time.  I have always been asked to meet at the muster station which located In a comfortable inside area.  (Dinner room, theatre, etc.)

 

IMO the new process is a great use of technology with verification.  I really like the four hour window with a mandatory check in at one’s assigned muster station.  Seems like a win win to me.  Better for the ship/crew and better for the passenger.

 

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

21 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

I am impressed with the new process in theory.  It certainly has the potential to be a significant improvement over the old process.  The end of the muster drill has always been the most crowded time during my cruises.  The new process has to be safer even without the COVID.
Reading some of the comments on this thread makes me wonder why my muster drill experiences have been so different for many years.  I have not carried a life jacket to a muster drill for many years. (I understand it was a safety hazard).  It has been even longer since I have gathered or walked by my actual life boat.  Both of these practices were SOP many years ago.  Good riddance to those previous  processes.
 

I also do not believe that I have been asked to return to my cabin to get one of the life jackets stored in the cabin for a long time. plenty of life jackets at the lifeboats.   I recall being asked to stop by to get any critical medicine if I have time.  I have always been asked to meet at the muster station which located In a comfortable inside area.  (Dinner room, theatre, etc.)

 

IMO the new process is a great use of technology with verification.  I really like the four hour window with a mandatory check in at one’s assigned muster station.  Seems like a win win to me.  Better for the ship/crew and better for the passenger.

 

 

Do you think it makes you safer?

[jagoffee]

1 minute ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Do you think it makes you safer?

It does not not make me less safe from a ship safety standpoint.  At the same time it improves my safety from the standpoint of getting infected from others.  
So yes, it makes me safer.  (Probably only marginally safer)

 

Does the new process make you feel less safe?

[Ride-The-Waves]

11 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

It does not not make me less safe from a ship safety standpoint.  At the same time it improves my safety from the standpoint of getting infected from others.  
So yes, it makes me safer.  (Probably only marginally safer)

 

Does the new process make you feel less safe?

Princess already uses a form of this process.  To use the TV in cabin you first must watch the safety video which automatically registers you as completed this requirement.  Mustering is accomplished using their "medallion" system which recognizes you as you enter the muster station.  

 

Yes - much less safe.  It means that during an emergency I will be in crowded passageways with many who are not familiar with the location of their muster station and unsure which direction to take.  Definitely a safety factor, although more for many others than for me having served on navy ships for years and "cruising" since 1949 (my first trans-Atlantic).  When I get to the point where I can't safely and easily get to my muster station (maybe soon) I will stop "riding the waves."

[jagoffee]

2 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Princess already uses a form of this process.  To use the TV in cabin you first must watch the safety video which automatically registers you as completed this requirement.  Mustering is accomplished using their "medallion" system which recognizes you as you enter the muster station.  

 

Yes - much less safe.  It means that during an emergency I will be in crowded passageways with many who are not familiar with the location of their muster station and unsure which direction to take.  Definitely a safety factor, although more for many others than for me having served on navy ships for years and "cruising" since 1949 (my first trans-Atlantic).  When I get to the point where I can't safely and easily get to my muster station (maybe soon) I will stop "riding the waves."

Why would the new process result in many people not familiar with their muster station?  As I understand the new process requires every person to visit their muster station prior to the ship leaving the port.  Celebrity will verify that they have watched the video, scan their card, and personally answer any questions. (Some time in a 4 hour period). Perhaps you do not know that everyone has to come to their Muster Station?

 

Although I have cruised on Princess many times, I have not experienced a Medallion Cruise.  It “seems” like Celebrity’s process may be significantly different than the Princess, but I do not know.  Are you saying that on a Princess Cruise with the Medallion that passengers were not required to meet at their Muster Station for a presentation?

 

as you say if you are not comfortable, it may not be for you.  Best of luck. 

Edited July 27, 2020 by jagoffee

[Ride-The-Waves]

11 hours ago, jagoffee said:

Why would the new process result in many people not familiar with their muster station?  As I understand the new process requires every person to visit their muster station prior to the ship leaving the port.  Celebrity will verify that they have watched the video, scan their card, and personally answer any questions. (Some time in a 4 hour period). Perhaps you do not know that everyone has to come to their Muster Station?

 

Although I have cruised on Princess many times, I have not experienced a Medallion Cruise.  It “seems” like Celebrity’s process may be significantly different than the Princess, but I do not know.  Are you saying that on a Princess Cruise with the Medallion that passengers were not required to meet at their Muster Station for a presentation?

 

as you say if you are not comfortable, it may not be for you.  Best of luck. 

Nope.  Didn't say that.  Muster station meetings were required.  

 

You are being argumentative.  

[TeeRick]

I have personally completed a lot of work-related safety training on line with on-line certification.  This type of training is very focused and requires your attention and the final certification step quite often involves needing to answer specific questions to prove you were paying attention.  In my experience far superior than sitting in a classroom with a bunch of people with your mind wandering- like the current muster drills.  So I think the online training and certification of Muster 2.0 - followed by going to your muster station once on board and getting your Sea Pass Card scanned, would be an improved safety procedure for a lot of people.   Maybe not all for various reasons but the traditional muster could also be offered to them in smaller groups.

[sanger727]

14 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

 

 

Yes - much less safe.  It means that during an emergency I will be in crowded passageways with many who are not familiar with the location of their muster station and unsure which direction to take.  Definitely a safety factor, although more for many others than for me having served on navy ships for years and "cruising" since 1949 (my first trans-Atlantic).  When I get to the point where I can't safely and easily get to my muster station (maybe soon) I will stop "riding the waves."

 

but they still have to go to their muster station in this new process. So that hasn’t changed...

 

We aren’t comparing this new process to the type of drill that professional crew would attend. We are comparing it to the way musters have been done on cruise ships for the last few decades. I’ve gone to several of these. I still don’t know the audible signal for going to the muster station. I’ve walked away from muster drills before without understanding where my muster station was. I’ve certainly walked away without understanding when and how I would get a life jacket. In my opinion, the muster drills as they have been were not really created with a true new cruiser in mind. There were facts about ‘mustering’ like ‘this place you are right now is where you should go in an emergency’ that they assumed people knew so didn’t say. I don’t think this new process will be better but I also don’t think it will be worse.

Edited July 27, 2020 by sanger727

[Straughn]

20 hours ago, julia said:

I totally agree that the present drill needs to go.  The process is so drawn out (waiting for stragglers!) with many pax well into their drink packages.

I'd love to see the safety drill video viewed in a separate area of the cruise terminal, following check-in (most of the time you're sitting around anyway).  The terminals are huge, and could accommodate several smaller areas where the video can be viewed in groups of 100-200, spaced apart, just prior to boarding.  AND... signs dictating NO talking, NO cell phones.  Keep the video short and serious (none of that silly Bond crap)  Enter area, scan ship card, and move people through continuously, on their way to board the ship.

Done and done.

I like this idea. Perhaps combine it with some sort of sticker on your seapass card that shows you completed the video. The video would need to make it very clear that all passengers must  present themselves  at their muster station before the ship can depart. You are then marked off in the system as having completed both steps (video and check in).  The first few sailings under this procedure would be rough as passengers get used to the concept. Perhaps also make your stateroom TV unavailable until your are checked off in the system.  In order for any of the proposed ideas to be successful, there has to be something that inconveniences passengers so that they complete the process. Just asking them to be good citizens and follow the procedure won’t be enough. 

[CHEZMARYLOU]

Once you are checked off in the system why would you need a sticker on your sea pass.  It would just need to be scanned if there was any question that you complied.

[ExArkie]

1 hour ago, Straughn said:

...Perhaps also make your stateroom TV unavailable until your are checked off in the system...

 

It should also be possible to set it up so that your Seapass card cannot be used for anything other than opening your stateroom door (i.e., no purchases anywhere onboard) until it is scanned at the muster station.

[Fouremco]

1 hour ago, Straughn said:

Perhaps also make your stateroom TV unavailable until your are checked off in the system.  In order for any of the proposed ideas to be successful, there has to be something that inconveniences passengers so that they complete the process.

No food or bar service either until they are finished! No books reading, playing cards or swimming in the pools allowed either. 

 

Seriously, not everyone has an e-device, one of the reasons why the interactive TVs have been included as part of the process.

[C-Dragons]

1 hour ago, Straughn said:

I like this idea. Perhaps combine it with some sort of sticker on your seapass card that shows you completed the video. The video would need to make it very clear that all passengers must  present themselves  at their muster station before the ship can depart. You are then marked off in the system as having completed both steps (video and check in).  The first few sailings under this procedure would be rough as passengers get used to the concept. Perhaps also make your stateroom TV unavailable until your are checked off in the system.  In order for any of the proposed ideas to be successful, there has to be something that inconveniences passengers so that they complete the process. Just asking them to be good citizens and follow the procedure won’t be enough. 

 What proposed ideas? The program has already been approved, tested and Patented, so apparently it works.