CDC: Cruise ship travel “exacerbates the global spread of Covid-19.”

[cruisemom42]

In a published interview with the CDC official who has been one of the main liaisons with the cruise ship industry, the agency seems dismayed at how cruise lines have managed the pandemic, and astonished that lines are apparently selling cruises that have no likelihood of sailing.

 

Dr. Martin Cetron, director for the Division of Global Migration and Quarantine at the CDC, said "maybe there is a level of denial of the magnitude of the problem and there’s a certain amount of wishful thinking in recovery.”  He also said he suspects the cruise lines have only recently begun to grapple with the gravity of the challenge at hand.

 

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/cruise-lines-booking-practices-pandemic-140001906.html

 

The article also makes it clear, again, that the CDC has provided "ample guidance" to the cruise ships with regard to formulating plans for restarting. It is up to them to develop the requested plans for CDC to review and approve prior to restarting cruising.

 

[JAMESCC]

I didn't read the full article but just what you posted but I'm sorry this is a bunch of BS. Can they actually prove that cruise ships spread anything into the US? But hey planes, airports I guess are the golden child here and didn't spread a thing. Millions of people coming in from all over the world in January, February and March didn't spread anything I guess? I mean give me a break, and planes are allowed to fly and they are selling every single seat, middle seat an all.

By the way I'm not complaining airlines are doing that, fine by me but when people say cruises aren't being singled out I have to laugh. If they have their way the cruises lines will be out of business.

The last I heard about this "guidance" was, hospital ships all over the world. Yeah that sounds feasible. I'm not saying cruises should start tomorrow and fill em up and send them out but there is a middle ground here that the CDC is being short sighted and not cooperative. But hey that is just me opinion.

 

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[cruisemom42]

5 minutes ago, JAMESCC said:

I didn't read the full article but just what you posted but I'm sorry this is a bunch of BS.

 

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

 

Sorry, but it's kind of futile to argue points with someone who doesn't read the information and already has their mind made up regarding the 'facts'. 

 

 

[JAMESCC]

 
Sorry, but it's kind of futile to argue points with someone who doesn't read the information and already has their mind made up regarding the 'facts'. 
 
 

I read what you posted. The highlights are enough to be annoyed with.

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[JAMESCC]

Ok I read the article and I still believe the CDC is not being fair and they are very dismissive of the cruise lines in general. That is just my opinion.

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[BlueRiband]

Last paragraph: "..Royal and Norwegian’s Healthy Sail panel as co-chair, former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb told USA Today in March, “I don’t think anybody should be taking a cruise right now,” noting the unique risks of the virus’ spread on board. By July, Gottleib had changed his tune, telling (a travel publication) that taking a cruise during Covid might just be safer than going to London." 

 

That statement does change the whole tone of the interview.

 

[nosapphire]

That is interesting. Assuming that most lines are in a similar position to Carnival, then all that talk in the trade press about "soon be publishing our procedures for safely restarting" is a load of hot air, just to keep us all booking.

(I always love the bit when a CEO states that they have "robust health and cleaning procedures in place," usually given just after a news report about noravirus on board)(one line was still making that statement after 4 consecutive cruises with noravirus).

As far as I can see, cruise lines have mainly relied upon the fact that if somebody cannot be treated on board, then they can be offloaded to the nearest available port.

The coronavirus pandemic has highlighted the flaw in that assumption.

Add this to the fact that cruise liners rarely (like planes) go straight from A to B, they go via X,Y,Z as well, with people getting off and getting on in each place, then mingling together on the ship - so the risk of somebody on a ship picking up and spreading something infectious is a bit higher than in direct transits.

[cruisemom42]

21 minutes ago, BlueRiband said:

Last paragraph: "..Royal and Norwegian’s Healthy Sail panel as co-chair, former FDA commissioner Scott Gottlieb told USA Today in March, “I don’t think anybody should be taking a cruise right now,” noting the unique risks of the virus’ spread on board. By July, Gottleib had changed his tune, telling (a travel publication) that taking a cruise during Covid might just be safer than going to London." 

 

 

That statement does change the whole tone of the interview.

 

 

Yes. One wonders if the undoubtedly large payment he is receiving as the newly minted "co-chair" of the RCL + NCL "Healthy Sail" panel has anything to do with that change of opinion?

[JAMESCC]

 
Yes. One wonders if the undoubtedly large payment he is receiving as the newly minted "co-chair" of the RCL + NCL "Healthy Sail" panel has anything to do with that change of opinion?

Oh Scott Gotlieb, I know this guy, he is on cnbc almost every day now. I'm not saying he is not dedicated to people's health but he is on like 5 different boards I think of drug companies. To me he seems like a guy that is just cashing in paychecks and is about making as much money as possible. I'm not saying that is a bad thing, we all are trying to do the same but just seems a bit more into the cashing paychecks thing.

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[Nic6318]

Hi

 

How does any of this matter when there is nowhere for a cruise ship to go sailing from a U.S. port at this time? With the continued postponement of start dates, the cruise lines understand this. Why should the cruise lines prepare for something that is not going to happen any time soon? By the time cruising is considered a reasonable option again, and I am not talking to those that would get on a sip tomorrow, because even the cruise lines would not subject their employees to that kind of risk, everything is going to be different. 

[LHT28]

I think  the CDC should start  with the land based  problem first

 

No ships have been sailing  with pax since March  but funny how cases of the virus  in Florida  are hitting  10.000  per day  not to mention other States

& yet  they are opening restaurants/beaches/Disney   like there is no spread from them  just cruise ships

🙄

people need  a reality check

[navybankerteacher]

9 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I think  the CDC should start  with the land based  problem first

 

No ships have been sailing  with pax since March  but funny how cases of the virus  in Florida  are hitting  10.000  per day  not to mention other States

& yet  they are opening restaurants/beaches/Disney   like there is no spread from them  just cruise ships

🙄

people need  a reality check

People also need to realize that cruise ships are not in any way a necessity.  Agreed that perhaps other unnecessary activities/locations should also be restricted - but at least they provide significant domestic employment and tax revenues.

[CruiserBruce]

41 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

I think  the CDC should start  with the land based  problem first

 

No ships have been sailing  with pax since March  but funny how cases of the virus  in Florida  are hitting  10.000  per day  not to mention other States

& yet  they are opening restaurants/beaches/Disney   like there is no spread from them  just cruise ships

🙄

people need  a reality check

The CDC is not opening these things, politicians are. I think if you look closely at CDC statements and guidelines, they WOULDN'T be opening most of those things.

[chipmaster]

3 hours ago, JAMESCC said:

I didn't read the full article but just what you posted but I'm sorry this is a bunch of BS. Can they actually prove that cruise ships spread anything into the US? But hey planes, airports I guess are the golden child here and didn't spread a thing. Millions of people coming in from all over the world in January, February and March didn't spread anything I guess? I mean give me a break, and planes are allowed to fly and they are selling every single seat, middle seat an all.

By the way I'm not complaining airlines are doing that, fine by me but when people say cruises aren't being singled out I have to laugh. If they have their way the cruises lines will be out of business.

The last I heard about this "guidance" was, hospital ships all over the world. Yeah that sounds feasible. I'm not saying cruises should start tomorrow and fill em up and send them out but there is a middle ground here that the CDC is being short sighted and not cooperative. But hey that is just me opinion.

 

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This was what was posted  "dismayed at how cruise lines have managed the pandemic, and astonished that lines are apparently selling cruises that have no likelihood of sailing."

 

maybe there is a level of denial of the magnitude of the problem and there’s a certain amount of wishful thinking in recovery.”  He also said he suspects the cruise lines have only recently begun to grapple with the gravity of the challenge at hand"

 

You did read and then you twisted the whole thing, LOL.

 

Cruise ship are great incubators with their close proximity of large crowds from all over the world.   Little social distancing and little safety protocol.  They most certainly will incubate and spread among the passengers, there is ample evidence of that.

[Roz]

Doesn't travel in general exacerbate the spread of Covid-19?  Crowded airports, planes, trains, subways, buses, museums, amusement parks, tourist areas, etc. 

[navybankerteacher]

14 minutes ago, Roz said:

Doesn't travel in general exacerbate the spread of Covid-19?  Crowded airports, planes, trains, subways, buses, museums, amusement parks, tourist areas, etc. 

Of course it does- but there is a difference between traveling to get to work, seek medical treatment, obtain education, etc. - and just getting on a ship to go somewhere you really do not need to go, in close proximity with a few thousand people, and then come back to your starting point.

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, navybankerteacher said:

People also need to realize that cruise ships are not in any way a necessity.  Agreed that perhaps other unnecessary activities/locations should also be restricted - but at least they provide significant domestic employment and tax revenues.

YES  people  NEED to go to Disney 🙄

 

A lot of our places are closed here

Our number of cases  though not  as many  people as in the USA  have dropped to about the 100  level in our Province 

We are just starting to open restaurants with limited indoor seating 

Theme parks are closed

even the annual CNE  is cancelled for 2020

 

so we are doing something to keep the numbers under control

What is Florida doing??

 

 

[JAMESCC]

 
This was what was posted  "dismayed at how cruise lines have managed the pandemic, and astonished that lines are apparently selling cruises that have no likelihood of sailing."
 
maybe there is a level of denial of the magnitude of the problem and there’s a certain amount of wishful thinking in recovery.”  He also said he suspects the cruise lines have only recently begun to grapple with the gravity of the challenge at hand"
 
You did read and then you twisted the whole thing, LOL.
 
Cruise ship are great incubators with their close proximity of large crowds from all over the world.   Little social distancing and little safety protocol.  They most certainly will incubate and spread among the passengers, there is ample evidence of that.

I didn't twist a thing pal, sorry. I do not believe they are selling cruises that have no chance to sail and consumers have the ability to choose or not choose to book these cruises.
Please stop with the BS incubator BS, please just stop. Planes have the ability to fly millions of people per day that are asymptomatic and then those people go off into countries and could spread. There is absolutely no difference between planes and cruises.

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[Roz]

13 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course it does- but there is a difference between traveling to get to work, seek medical treatment, obtain education, etc. - and just getting on a ship to go somewhere you really do not need to go, in close proximity with a few thousand people, and then come back to your starting point.

 

I was referring to travel more for recreational purposes.  Optional travel as opposed to necessity.

[LHT28]

24 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

Of course it does- but there is a difference between traveling to get to work, seek medical treatment, obtain education, etc. - and just getting on a ship to go somewhere you really do not need to go, in close proximity with a few thousand people, and then come back to your starting point.

if you need to travel for medical treatment  you should be using private vehicles & not public transportation

you could be  at risk or  a carrier

are schools open in the USA?

[navybankerteacher]

1 minute ago, LHT28 said:

if you need to travel for medical treatment  you should be using private vehicles & not public transportation

you could be  at risk or  a carrier

are schools open in the USA?

Schools may or may not open for the coming academic year - it is still summer vacation pretty much throughout the country.  Some districts are planning to open-  but there is serious opposition - particularly in those regions which have taken COVID precautions seriously. Too many states which ignored precautions and re-opened too quickly are seeing soaring infection, hospitalization and death rates - yet still talk about reopening schools - in some in just a matter of weeks.

[cruisemom42]

37 minutes ago, Roz said:

Doesn't travel in general exacerbate the spread of Covid-19?  Crowded airports, planes, trains, subways, buses, museums, amusement parks, tourist areas, etc. 

 

5 minutes ago, Roz said:

 

I was referring to travel more for recreational purposes.  Optional travel as opposed to necessity.

 

I feel like this is one of those "yes, but..." situations.

 

Yes, travel in general would exacerbate the spread. But in some cases, the relative risk is greatly increased.

 

Exposure to someone in passing is not as likely to lead to infection as exposure to an infected person on a regular basis. Thus, there is lesser risk in an airport, museum, amusement park than in somewhere where exposure is more than fleeting. Cruises, to me, pose the greatest risk because of the length of the exposure and the communal type of experience. 

 

If scientists were trying to devise an ideal way to track the spread of an often asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic virus, I could hardly think of a better way than in a closed-group situation where those passengers/crew who are infected are mingling with and interacting with passengers continuously over a period of several days. It's hard to imagine -- given the ineffective current tests and the low level of symptoms that some people have -- that you would board a ship with more than 2,000 souls* aboard  and not have at least a few infected people. And those people would have numerous opportunities to infect others....

 

Cruising is, at heart, a relatively social experience. I think it would be difficult, if not impossible to change people's behavior over an extended period (say 4-7 days). Whereas someone might agree to wear a mask for a 3-hour flight, I think there are many who will not wear them for a week in virtually every situation where they may encounter someone outside their own cabin. Even if they are fully onboard with the idea, there is going to come that moment where you are sitting on a lounger and you take off the mask -- then someone passes by you to get to another person.

 

I believe most people have been advised to avoid travel except for reasons of true necessity. So in a sense, really ALL leisure travel is not recommended at this time. It's not that cruises are being singled out, in particular. It's just that their business is 100% leisure.

 

*Even at reduced capacity, larger ships would likely have at least that many passengers PLUS crew.

[whogo]

I will continue to side with the science guys instead of the wishful thinking guys.

[K32682]

1 hour ago, JAMESCC said:

I didn't twist a thing pal, sorry. I do not believe they are selling cruises that have no chance to sail and consumers have the ability to choose or not choose to book these cruises.
Please stop with the BS incubator BS, please just stop. Planes have the ability to fly millions of people per day that are asymptomatic and then those people go off into countries and could spread. There is absolutely no difference between planes and cruises.

 

Cruise ships are incubators as their configuration leads to viral spread among passengers and crew.  Norwalk proved that long before COVID-19.  The odds of catching the virus from another passenger on a flight are comparatively low because you are on it for hours instead of days and there is less repeated contact among air passengers. 

 

You might have one or two infected passengers on an aircraft.  When the cruise ship pulls in you might have a boatload. 

   

Edited July 24, 2020 by K32682

[LHT28]

No risk going to a crowded  beach  then?

 or parties  with hundreds  mingling

 Guess all those new cases in Florida  must have come from cruise  ships back in Feb/March

Interesting  how that would work 🙄