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CDC Requests Input on Resumption of cruises and the public can participate

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5 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

Are you suggesting that Cruising should be opened for economic impact?  These ships are not flagged in the US. You don’t think the current local businesses have an economic impact. 
 

We eat out once or twice a week. I feel much safer in the restaurants we pick and dinning in then I would on a cruise ship for a week. 
 

Our first cruise is not until October 2021. It’s a Charter. I’m not sure it will be allowed at full capacity and if so, is likely to be cancelled. 
 

M8

 

There are many local businesses impacted by the halt in cruise operations.  I'm not suggesting anything other than stating my opinion that the CDC should not drag its heels in reviewing a plan for acceptance -- that is all.  Period.  There are certainly a lot of livelihoods locally, in Florida, in the US and internationally that are affected.  I get that you are worried about the cruise lines dumping infected people at our ports, and I agree with that 100 per cent - I live in a port city and do not want that either.  I don't think anyone should cruise until health and safety measures are approved.  Europe has restarted using acceptable protocols and if we adopt the measures that have worked for them and the CDC gives a green light then I think it would be safe -- even safer than bowling alleys, arcades, dancing halls and sports entertainment venues -- most of which have already reopened in Miami-Dade County.  

 

Florida from the Miami Herald:

At risk are 150,000 Florida jobs and $7.7 billion in wages, according to a study by the Cruise Lines International Association covering information through 2018, the last year for which data is available. About 60% of North America’s 14.2 million 2018 passengers boarded through PortMiami and PortEverglades. At PortMiami alone, cruise passengers grew by 22% in 2019, port officials said in January.

The industry comprises far more than approximately 10,000 workers directly employed by the three major companies — revenue managers, computer programmers, lawyers, itinerary planners, call-center workers. Cruising also supports food purveyors, florists, interior designers, taxi and Uber drivers, bus companies, luggage handlers, airlines, hotels and travel advisors.

 

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4 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

I'm not suggesting anything other than stating my opinion that the CDC should not drag its heels in reviewing a plan for acceptance -- that is all.

This I agree with. Unfortunately, the CDC has no motivation to speed things up and there may be forces in HHS that slow things down. This is the federal government. I deal with the Patent Office all the time. Sometimes it takes a year before they even look at a patent application, never mind getting around to actually granting the patent. I'm not holding my breath that any federal agency will expedite anything for the public unless it receives orders from above, and I don't see that happening any time soon. On top of that, public sentiment is decidedly anti-cruise these days.

 

Bayley is projecting confidence that we are in a new phase. Maybe he knows something, maybe not. Only time will tell.

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Do you really think the CDC cares about the cruise industry starting up??  CDC reported a couple of months back that they invested 38,000 man hours on cruise related matters.  Seems they added several zeros to that hourly number.

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5 minutes ago, Pratique said:

This I agree with. Unfortunately, the CDC has no motivation to speed things up and there may be forces in HHS that slow things down. This is the federal government. I deal with the Patent Office all the time. Sometimes it takes a year before they even look at a patent application, never mind getting around to actually granting the patent. I'm not holding my breath that any federal agency will expedite anything for the public unless it receives orders from above, and I don't see that happening any time soon. On top of that, public sentiment is decidedly anti-cruise these days.

 

Bayley is projecting confidence that we are in a new phase. Maybe he knows something, maybe not. Only time will tell.

 

Unfortunately, you're right about government agencies.  That's the reason our two Florida senators are getting involved with a new bill in the legislature -- this too will take time to review and enact but a step in the right direction.  If anything, it serves to stress the importance of collaboration to advance the safe resumption of cruising. 

 

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1 minute ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Unfortunately, you're right about government agencies.  That's the reason our two Florida senators are getting involved with a new bill in the legislature -- this too will take time to review and enact but a step in the right direction.  If anything, it serves to stress the importance of collaboration to advance the safe resumption of cruising. 

 

That bill is sitting in a committee that probably isn't even convening a hearing for it. There's nothing on the docket. I can't even read the bill yet, it hasn't been posted online. Maybe next year they will resubmit the bill under the next Congress.

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42 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

There are many local businesses impacted by the halt in cruise operations.  I'm not suggesting anything other than stating my opinion that the CDC should not drag its heels in reviewing a plan for acceptance -- that is all.  Period.  There are certainly a lot of livelihoods locally, in Florida, in the US and internationally that are affected.  I get that you are worried about the cruise lines dumping infected people at our ports, and I agree with that 100 per cent - I live in a port city and do not want that either.  I don't think anyone should cruise until health and safety measures are approved.  Europe has restarted using acceptable protocols and if we adopt the measures that have worked for them and the CDC gives a green light then I think it would be safe -- even safer than bowling alleys, arcades, dancing halls and sports entertainment venues -- most of which have already reopened in Miami-Dade County.  

 

Florida from the Miami Herald:

At risk are 150,000 Florida jobs and $7.7 billion in wages, according to a study by the Cruise Lines International Association covering information through 2018, the last year for which data is available. About 60% of North America’s 14.2 million 2018 passengers boarded through PortMiami and PortEverglades. At PortMiami alone, cruise passengers grew by 22% in 2019, port officials said in January.

The industry comprises far more than approximately 10,000 workers directly employed by the three major companies — revenue managers, computer programmers, lawyers, itinerary planners, call-center workers. Cruising also supports food purveyors, florists, interior designers, taxi and Uber drivers, bus companies, luggage handlers, airlines, hotels and travel advisors.

 

 

Interior designers? That's a stretch. I guess it helps pad the numbers

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8 minutes ago, Pratique said:

That bill is sitting in a committee that probably isn't even convening a hearing for it. There's nothing on the docket. I can't even read the bill yet, it hasn't been posted online. Maybe next year they will resubmit the bill under the next Congress.

 

That's right.  As I said, it will be a long time before it's enacted -- if it's even passed.  Numerous bills die in the committees or floor.  This is the only writing thus far on it:

 

"A bill to establish a Maritime Task Force and a private sector advisory committee to address the health, safety, security, and logistical issues relating to the continuation of maritime travel, including the resumption of cruise operations, in United States waters during the COVID-19 public health emergency."

https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/senate-bill/4592/titles?r=4&s=1

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4 minutes ago, John&LaLa said:

 

Interior designers? That's a stretch. I guess it helps pad the numbers

 

They do exist -- I feel bad for those that just opened recently. 

https://www.cruiseandferry.net/articles/new-cruise-ship-interior-design-firm-opens-in-miami

Edited by livingonthebeach

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35 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

There are many local businesses impacted by the halt in cruise operations.  I'm not suggesting anything other than stating my opinion that the CDC should not drag its heels in reviewing a plan for acceptance -- that is all.  Period.

I agree

 

 

35 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

internationally that are affected

This should have no bearing on the CDC approval. 

 

37 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Europe has restarted using acceptable protocols

Doesn’t matter. Apples to Oranges. Europe is not the US. On excursions in Europe, you could walk right up to a cliff overlooking a 300+’ possible fall. In Aruba, one could walk across the Natural Bridge without any rails until it collapsed in the middle of the night. 

 

39 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

At risk are 150,000 Florida jobs and $7.7 billion in wages, according to a study by the Cruise Lines International Association

What do you expect them to say?
 

I understand where you are coming from. I’m interested in the “details “ from Royal. This was nothing more than a fluff pastry. I hope they addressed the CDC questions they had in the first no sail order. 
 

It’s not the CDC’s fault. Let them do their job. 
 

M8

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22 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

Florida senators are getting involved with a new bill in the legislature -- this too will take time to review and enact but a step in the right direction.

I’m not sure this is going to be helpful. 

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Just now, Milwaukee Eight said:

I’m not sure this is going to be helpful. 

 

6 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

 

It’s not the CDC’s fault. Let them do their job. 
 

M8

 

Wowsie -- if I didn't know any better I would think you're a card-carrying member of one of  those anti-cruiser groups. 🤣

 

Sure you have a cruise booked?

 

No one said the CDC shouldn't do their job.  I'm sure they are doing what they can at a time when they are probably inundated with other more pressing matters that need their attention.   If they required 38,000 man hours to reject a plan in the past, as someone pointed out, then maybe it's time they hire more staff.  There's a lot of unemployed workers right now that need a job.  

 

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With only a few thousand comments on this CDC RFI as it related to cruise ships the CDC can, if they follow FAA practices, "review" the public comments in a matter of days.   

 

FWIW the FAA recently "reviewed" 53,000 public comments about their RemoteID initiative in 64 days before announcing they were moving forward with it.  The public comment period concluded just as the pandemic was announced causing most at the FAA to work from home yet they the public comments were processed with amazing efficiency.  

 

If RemoteID is right or wrong isn't the point, an embattled federal agency that is known for being slow and lethargic was able to glance at enough public comments to make a decision.    That's 823 comments "reviewed" per day, assuming this federal agency actually did review them.  

 

While not an apples to apples comparison to the CDC the FAA's role has significant safety implications as we can see from their failures in the 737MAX debacle.  One might surmise in the wake of those failures they might slow down even more but that wasn't the case as they push forward with great haste to implement RemoteID in 2021.   With "The public has been allowed to comment" checkbox marked with a large check mark the FAA is moving forward.

 

That's really what this CDC RFI is - a CYA gov't "The public has been allowed to comment" check box in the process.  Do you really think the CDC gives a hoot what John or Jane Q Public have to say on the issue?   

 

There is nothing that anyone could submit in response to the RFI that would influence the CDC process just like there is nothing that the public could have submitted to the FAA that would have altered their process.  It's just a checkbox.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

Unfortunately, you're right about government agencies.  That's the reason our two Florida senators are getting involved with a new bill in the legislature -- this too will take time to review and enact but a step in the right direction.  If anything, it serves to stress the importance of collaboration to advance the safe resumption of cruising. 

 

That "bill" is election year grandstanding and political posturing, nothing more

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30 minutes ago, twangster said:

With only a few thousand comments on this CDC RFI as it related to cruise ships the CDC can, if they follow FAA practices, "review" the public comments in a matter of days.

I will bet you a beer that if and when the CDC publishes their responses to the comments they will write most of them off as being non-responsive to the questions posed.

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5 hours ago, Pratique said:

I don' think the cruise industry is in suspense. It's just the rest of us waiting for something to happen.


Some are praying that a miracle happens to allow cruises to start again, others are realistic.  

 

4 hours ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

It’s really a very small fraction of the people in the US that are affected by the no sail order. 
 

M8

 

Some days it feels like all of that “fraction” is here complaining that they can’t cruise yet. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, not-enough-cruising said:

That "bill" is election year grandstanding and political posturing, nothing more

 

Neither Marco Rubio nor Rick Scott are up for re-election this year and will remain in the Senate through this election year until 2023 and 2024, respectively. They are trying to help the economy of the State that elected them and the State they live in.  As most bills die before they even reach the floor, this bill probably won't make a difference by the time it's enacted if that even happens, but to call it election year political posturing is a bit shortsighted.  'Nuf said -- politics are not allowed as per CC rules.

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IMHO I do not see the CDC allowing ports to re-open for cruises any time soon.    

As we approach fall/winter months and more activities have to be moved indoors for most of the US and add cold/flu season on top of that and all the confusion people will have in thinking they just have a cold, I just don't see cruises being allowed.     but heck I have been wrong many times in my life.    Of course, it saddens me as I am so ready to get sailing again and really really want to do my 12 night December cruise as I love the itinerary - all my favorites.    

I am really impressed with the health protocols that MSC has put in place and the fact they are working for the last 6 +/- weeks is amazing.    I suspect they may be changing their protocols as a lot of Europe countries are re-entering lockdown / restrictions due to spikes.    

I booked another casino offer for an August Bermuda cruise on Freedom this morning and the CSR was in the Phillipines.    He spoke about how sad it is there as they have been in their 2nd lockdown since August.   He is not allowed to leave his home other than food/drug store or exercise within a certain distance of his home.      He said Indonesia just went into their 2nd lockdown.     Most of these countries are where crew come from.    If they cannot even leave their home to go to a restaurant I doubt they can get on a plane to come to US anytime soon.

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Wowsie -- if I didn't know any better I would think you're a card-carrying member of one of  those anti-cruiser groups. 🤣
 
Sure you have a cruise booked?
 
No one said the CDC shouldn't do their job.  I'm sure they are doing what they can at a time when they are probably inundated with other more pressing matters that need their attention.   If they required 38,000 man hours to reject a plan in the past, as someone pointed out, then maybe it's time they hire more staff.  There's a lot of unemployed workers right now that need a job.  
 

We have over 150000 in the state of Florida out of work because of the cruising shutdown. Our economy is dependent on tourism and cruising is a large part of that. This has to end🥺


Sent from my iPad using Forums

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4 hours ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

 

Wowsie -- if I didn't know any better I would think you're a card-carrying member of one of  those anti-cruiser groups. 🤣

 

Sure you have a cruise booked?

 

No one said the CDC shouldn't do their job.  I'm sure they are doing what they can at a time when they are probably inundated with other more pressing matters that need their attention.   If they required 38,000 man hours to reject a plan in the past, as someone pointed out, then maybe it's time they hire more staff.  There's a lot of unemployed workers right now that need a job.  

 

We have 3 booked and maybe a 4th. 
 

As long as your willing to stay onboard if an outbreak occurs, let them sail. Just don’t bring it back to our healthcare facilities and staff. 
 

M8

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11 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Nope, not wiki, but the source documents for reference.  "The answers are out there", sounds like X-files to me.  Please, I ask you to embarrass me by showing the intersect between the CDC and SOLAS.  I'd like to check your response with the copy of the 2014 edition of SOLAS that is sitting on the bookshelf in the ship's conference room next door, and the 2018 VSP manual I have downloaded.  Wow, you must not be much of a tennis player, if two statements and two rebuttals equals a "back and forth tennis match".  I guess the only one who is allowed to have "a fun place to exchange knowledge" is you, since anyone who disagrees is "filibustering", because I cite facts and you only make vague accusations, and distortions.

 

"The truth IS out there", and it, not I, has the last word.

My good man, I am raising the white flag in surrender.  You have defeated me. My head is down in shame.  Kindly stop this abuse, as this entire ordeal has drained me both physically & mentally.  It is you who has won this battle.  Let my retirement be another notch on your belt.  Well played sir.

 

stay well, and drink in victory..

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50 minutes ago, Milwaukee Eight said:

As long as your willing to stay onboard if an outbreak occurs, let them sail. Just don’t bring it back to our healthcare facilities and staff. 
 

M8

 

I think we all want it to not to be brought back to tax our healthcare resources anywhere on land and that is what the CDC is asking for as well.  Let's hope they can come to an agreement that satisfies all parties, in a timely manner.   

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4 hours ago, sjudis said:


We have over 150000 in the state of Florida out of work because of the cruising shutdown. Our economy is dependent on tourism and cruising is a large part of that. This has to end🥺


Sent from my iPad using Forums


CDC does not care about economics or emotion.

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