NCL Guest Ticket Contract requires refund for cancelled cruises

[raytamt1]

Paragraph 6(b) of Guest Ticket Contract reads: "If vessel does not sail on advertised or scheduled date for any reason, including the fault of the Carrier, the Guest agrees that the Carrier shall be entitled to substitute any other vessel or means of transportation, regardless of whether owned or operated by the Carrier, and to re-berth Guests thereon or, at the Carrier's option refund the fare paid or a pro rata portion thereof, without further liability for damages or losses of any kind whatsoever."

 

Since vessel I booked to sail on June 1, 2020, indeed did not sail due to COVID-19, which qualifies as "for any reason", and there wasn't a substituted vessel, then the only other option for the Carrier is to refund the Guest. 

[SeaShark]

What you have to understand is that it says the Carrier is "entitled to", it doesn't say that the carrier is "required to".

 

In fact, if you keep reading, the contract also states: "The Carrier shall have the absolute right, without liability for compensation to the Guest of any kind, to comply with governmental orders, recommendations or directions, including but not limited to those pertaining to health, security, immigration, customs or safety." This means, that when the government doesn't allow them to sail...either by order or by recommendation, that they are "without liability for compensation to the Guest of any kind".

[raytamt1]

Nice spin, but this paragraph was enough for my credit card company to do a charge back to my card. If any one else was shafted on NCL refunds for cancelled cruises, file a charge back request with your credit card issuer, and include mention of paragraph 6(b) of your contract to force your refund. IT WORKS!

[julig22]

21 minutes ago, raytamt1 said:

Nice spin, but this paragraph was enough for my credit card company to do a charge back to my card. If any one else was shafted on NCL refunds for cancelled cruises, file a charge back request with your credit card issuer, and include mention of paragraph 6(b) of your contract to force your refund. IT WORKS!

Well, good luck with that.  NCL offered a choice of FCC or a refund.  To get the refund, you had to comply with their process, which was to actually request that refund.  Otherwise, FCC is the default.  What someone may or may not have told you on the phone wouldn't override the process.

 

Your credit card will give you a temporary credit while they investigate.  Lots of people did chargebacks - and some have reported that the chargeback was eventually reversed, once NCL sent their documentation that outlined your options.  Probably a lot more than reported, since people were adamant that a chargeback was/would be successful and don't come back to report when it didn't go as expected.

[raytamt1]

Decision was final and permanent on chargeback.

[julig22]

8 minutes ago, raytamt1 said:

Decision was final and permanent on chargeback.

So thought the people on the ones that were reversed - I think NCL has up to 90 days to reply.  But I'm sure that some were successful - they are all done case-by-case, with the final determination up to the credit card company.

Edited July 25, 2020 by julig22

[luv2kroooz]

38 minutes ago, julig22 said:

So thought the people on the ones that were reversed - I think NCL has up to 90 days to reply.  But I'm sure that some were successful - they are all done case-by-case, with the final determination up to the credit card company.

But why not just give the people their refund, even if they didn't understand the complicated, limited time they had to claim it. It's like you can only file for a refund if there is a full moon and the day doesn't end in a "y", NCLs website is working, etc. They use deceptive terms like lesser value to try to confuse the average person.

 

US Dept of Transportation has mandated all airlines refund passengers for cancelled flights. It's just the right thing to do. If someone messed up on the process, why hold their feet to the fire and deny them the refund. Hahaha too bad, too sad. Making them take soon to be worthless gift certificates. Amazing people on these message boards will defend NCL ( and the other cruise lines) without regard to common sense and solid business ethics. File your chargebacks people. You have a very high likelihood of success as complicated, frivolous requirements are generally frowned upon.

[seaman11]

i think with no idea when cruising can resume . i will file a charge back again.   it isnt fair for them to reissue you back the FCC with no confirmed sail date in sight.  if there was id be more than happy to keep and reuse FCC. 

[Outerdog]

5 hours ago, julig22 said:

NCL offered a choice of FCC or a refund.  To get the refund, you had to comply with their process, which was to actually request that refund.

 

None of that was part of the original booking contract. This is some crap the cruise lines made up to cope financially with the shut down.

 

It's amazing to me that people come on here and defend NCL when posters share their experiences with their credit card companies and charge backs. Why do you care? Pax of cancelled cruises are entitled to a refund. FCC is not a refund. Forcing customers to play silly games with clicking links and meeting artificial deadlines are also not a refund.

 

[raytamt1]

6 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

 

None of that was part of the original booking contract. This is some crap the cruise lines made up to cope financially with the shut down.

 

It's amazing to me that people come on here and defend NCL when posters share their experiences with their credit card companies and charge backs. Why do you care? Pax of cancelled cruises are entitled to a refund. FCC is not a refund. Forcing customers to play silly games with clicking links and meeting artificial deadlines are also not a refund.

 

WELL SAID!

[Budget Queen]

6 hours ago, raytamt1 said:

Decision was final and permanent on chargeback.

And you did not comply with the refund request?      

[luv2kroooz]

1 minute ago, Budget Queen said:

And you did not comply with the refund request?      

The compliance was made up by NCL and the other cruise lines after the fact. The original ticket contract clearly contemplates a cash refund when the merchant cancels. The manner for requesting the refund is absent from the ticket contract. A refund ought to be issued if the passenger requests it via mail, email, phone, pony express. To make a gift certificate the default and make the passenger opt out of the gift certificate is not a refund.

[Budget Queen]

1 minute ago, luv2kroooz said:

The compliance was made up by NCL and the other cruise lines after the fact. The original ticket contract clearly contemplates a cash refund when the merchant cancels. The manner for requesting the refund is absent from the ticket contract. A refund ought to be issued if the passenger requests it via mail, email, phone, pony express. To make a gift certificate the default and make the passenger opt out of the gift certificate is not a refund.

I did not reference this.   I asked if YOU complied initially with the refund request.   ?   
 

Or were you one of the ones who didn’t bother?    And now “never sailing with NCL again”.   🤩🤩

[luv2kroooz]

6 hours ago, raytamt1 said:

Nice spin, but this paragraph was enough for my credit card company to do a charge back to my card. If any one else was shafted on NCL refunds for cancelled cruises, file a charge back request with your credit card issuer, and include mention of paragraph 6(b) of your contract to force your refund. IT WORKS!

Yes, this is solid advice. It is amazing to me how people come on here and suggest the merchant is without responsibility to refund anything. Fortunately, there is a degree of equity applied to any contract. Merchants can't disclaim the "house". No reasonable credit card company and especially no court is going to rule that NCL is without liability to refund money on a cruise that they cancelled. That just won't happen.

[raytamt1]

6 hours ago, julig22 said:

NCL offered a choice of FCC or a refund.  To get the refund, you had to comply with their process, which was to actually request that refund.

51 minutes ago, Outerdog said:

It's amazing to me that people come on here and defend NCL when posters share their experiences with their credit card companies and charge backs. Why do you care? 

 

Great question, Outerdog! Why do certain posters with posting counts of 4 to 5 digits seem so quickly passionate when a poster dares to question the current business ethics of NCL. I think that part of their "job" is, in addition to their watch-dogging assignment, is to make a bunch of experienced cruiser comments in effort to blend in. BudgetQueen, TravelBird2, and Julig22 are just examples.

 

One other interesting note.

6 hours ago, julig22 said:

What someone may or may not have told you on the phone wouldn't override the process.

 

Your credit card will give you a temporary credit while they investigate.  Lots of people did chargebacks - and some have reported that the chargeback was eventually reversed, once NCL sent their documentation that outlined your options.  Probably a lot more than reported, since people were adamant that a chargeback was/would be successful and don't come back to report when it didn't go as expected.

This is from the 1st reply to my OP, which came predictably quick. It's funny that I never mentioned in my OP anything about being told something over the phone. I am somewhat new to this message board. This thread was only my second time I was made the Original Post. The first original post was a couple of weeks ago, where I had a thread about how NCL cruise consultants were instructed to lie about how passengers could still get refunds after their arbitrary one-week window, in order to avoid giving refunds. In that thread I discussed the phone call that Julig22 is referencing. However, its funny that message thread was deleted by the CruiseCritic board monitors less than 6 hours after I originally posted it. CC probably deleted the thread because certain posters were getting quite contentious over the refund debate.  

[luv2kroooz]

Just now, Budget Queen said:

I did not reference this.   I asked if YOU complied initially with the refund request.   ?   
 

Or were you one of the ones who didn’t bother?    And now “never sailing with NCL again”.   🤩🤩

I cancelled on my own, so there was nothing to request. They tried converting our prepaid bev charges and govt fees and taxes to gift certificates. Of course, they failed miserably at that, but fought us on it for four months.

 

I never say never. NCL is low on my list, but as discussed earlier, if they dump cabins last minute at fire sale prices, I would sail them again. The price paid matches the value I receive. Plus, with last minute booking, I don't have to pay my credit card until they provide the service, so I have recourse if they play silly games.

[raytamt1]

9 minutes ago, raytamt1 said:

CC probably deleted the thread because certain posters were getting quite contentious over the refund debate.  

BTW, this thread will probably be deleted soon, as well.

 

[julig22]

3 hours ago, raytamt1 said:

 

Great question, Outerdog! Why do certain posters with posting counts of 4 to 5 digits seem so quickly passionate when a poster dares to question the current business ethics of NCL. I think that part of their "job" is, in addition to their watch-dogging assignment, is to make a bunch of experienced cruiser comments in effort to blend in. BudgetQueen, TravelBird2, and Julig22 are just examples.

 

One other interesting note.

This is from the 1st reply to my OP, which came predictably quick. It's funny that I never mentioned in my OP anything about being told something over the phone. I am somewhat new to this message board. This thread was only my second time I was made the Original Post. The first original post was a couple of weeks ago, where I had a thread about how NCL cruise consultants were instructed to lie about how passengers could still get refunds after their arbitrary one-week window, in order to avoid giving refunds. In that thread I discussed the phone call that Julig22 is referencing. However, its funny that message thread was deleted by the CruiseCritic board monitors less than 6 hours after I originally posted it. CC probably deleted the thread because certain posters were getting quite contentious over the refund debate.  

1) I can't speak for others, but my only "passion" is to relay information that I may have read regarding contradictory information that people may have previously shared.  In no way does that indicate support for the business policies of NCL.  Just reiteration of what is in place, etc.  You are confusing information with support for NCL- definitely not one and the same.

2) Your exceedingly long and detailed post has not been removed, unless you posted it more than once.  Perhaps it was moved to an existing thread because it's not always necessary to start a new post.  So as a newbie, here's some advice (please don't take it as support in anyway for the way this forum is structured) - if you click on your name, it will show you all of your previous posts.

[sammee]

13 hours ago, luv2kroooz said:

I cancelled on my own, so there was nothing to request. They tried converting our prepaid bev charges and govt fees and taxes to gift certificates. Of course, they failed miserably at that, but fought us on it for four months.

 

I never say never. NCL is low on my list, but as discussed earlier, if they dump cabins last minute at fire sale prices, I would sail them again. The price paid matches the value I receive. Plus, with last minute booking, I don't have to pay my credit card until they provide the service, so I have recourse if they play silly games.

That's what they nailed me on. I cancelled the day before them and they were not giving a refund on it. I was told FCC on those extras but they were extending my cruise to anything between March and Sept 30. Guess what, August cancelled can't rebook to Sept, it's cancelled. So my free cruise went bye bye and they are holding those extras. I know the rule about fcc once it gets converted, but they wouldn't refund from day 1. When was your cruise and cancellation? I took a beating on this.

[luv2kroooz]

22 minutes ago, sammee said:

That's what they nailed me on. I cancelled the day before them and they were not giving a refund on it. I was told FCC on those extras but they were extending my cruise to anything between March and Sept 30. Guess what, August cancelled can't rebook to Sept, it's cancelled. So my free cruise went bye bye and they are holding those extras. I know the rule about fcc once it gets converted, but they wouldn't refund from day 1. When was your cruise and cancellation? I took a beating on this.

Cruise was for April 2020. I Cancelled March 2020 before they did because I did not want their FCCs. So 100% penalty on nonrefundable cruise fare (I had good CFAR insurance) and cash refund for refundable port taxes, fees and service charges that were not earned and were not NCLs to keep.

 

Anyway, their terms state cruise next are treated as any other cash deposit once applied. So by their own terms FCC 100% forfeited. Yet, they argued and argued that government taxes and fees and beverage charges we're becoming FCC. Wrong.

[sammee]

31 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

Cruise was for April 2020. I Cancelled March 2020 before they did because I did not want their FCCs. So 100% penalty on nonrefundable cruise fare (I had good CFAR insurance) and cash refund for refundable port taxes, fees and service charges that were not earned and were not NCLs to keep.

 

Anyway, their terms state cruise next are treated as any other cash deposit once applied. So by their own terms FCC 100% forfeited. Yet, they argued and argued that government taxes and fees and beverage charges we're becoming FCC. Wrong.

Mine was for a free cruise. The only money they should have kept was $280 admin fees. I cancelled 3/12. 3/13 was when everything shut down. The week before they changed their refund policy and that's where I lost it. I'm still fighting but haven't won yet.

 

[raytamt1]

13 hours ago, julig22 said:

So as a newbie, here's some advice (please don't take it as support in anyway for the way this forum is structured) - if you click on your name, it will show you all of your previous posts.

Point taken on your second paragraph.

I haven't ventured through the board's features just yet, and yes, that is a rookie mistake. I didn't know of the feature, and I can now see that I forgot I pasted that once in a different thread after CC deleted the thread. I was only able to copy it because I had email notifications from the deleted thread that I had received before I advanced my CC board functional knowledge enough to figure out how to turn off the notifications feature on threads.

13 hours ago, julig22 said:

1) I can't speak for others, but my only "passion" is to relay information that I may have read regarding contradictory information that people may have previously shared.

On your first paragraph, I didn't read anything from your passionate replies that relayed information of anything contradictory that I previously shared. I am just as puzzled as luv2krooz as to how certain chronically passionate posters can't or won't see the obvious and deliberate unethical business tactics NCL are conducting. CARRY THAT WATER!!   

[julig22]

9 minutes ago, raytamt1 said:

On your first paragraph, I didn't read anything from your passionate replies that relayed information of anything contradictory that I previously shared. I am just as puzzled as luv2krooz as to how certain chronically passionate posters can't or won't see the obvious and deliberate unethical business tactics NCL are conducting. CARRY THAT WATER!!   

I am fully aware of NCL's practices.  All I did was reiterate what they were. Never said I supported them.

 

What is contradictory is your statement that a chargeback "WORKS"  A very slippery slope.  One of the early outspoken proponents of chargebacks, who advised sooo many people to do the same because he got his refund, got a check and so forth actually had the courtesy to come back weeks later to report that the charges had been reinstated, long after the case was supposedly closed.

 

Again, you are confusing information with support for NCL.  My post was intended as a caveat for you - sorry to have bothered you with information that I thought you might find helpful. 

 

BTW - with the phrasing of your posts, I highly suspect your account is a reincarnation of another poster, probably banned long ago for inciting contentious posts.  Just my opinion. Good day - not interested in carrying any water.

[raytamt1]

2 minutes ago, julig22 said:

BTW - with the phrasing of your posts, I highly suspect your account is a reincarnation of another poster, probably banned long ago for inciting contentious posts.

I hate to quote myself, but I need to here:

30 minutes ago, raytamt1 said:

I haven't ventured through the board's features just yet, and yes, that is a rookie mistake. I didn't know of the feature, and I can now see that I forgot I pasted that once in a different thread after CC deleted the thread. I was only able to copy it because I had email notifications from the deleted thread that I had received before I advanced my CC board functional knowledge enough to figure out how to turn off the notifications feature on threads.

You just called out my ignorance of probably one of the most basic features of this message board. I humbly accepted your call out, and then went on to admit that my inbox was bombarded with notification emails because I still had not figured that out yet either. Do you think that describes a seasoned CC board troublemaker that keeps reincarnating. Speaking of, I was a bit surprised you only had a little over 1100 posts. Most of the other passionate NCL non-refund defenders have over 20,000. You must be somewhat new to the crew.

[julig22]

34 minutes ago, raytamt1 said:

I hate to quote myself, but I need to here:

You just called out my ignorance of probably one of the most basic features of this message board. I humbly accepted your call out, and then went on to admit that my inbox was bombarded with notification emails because I still had not figured that out yet either. Do you think that describes a seasoned CC board troublemaker that keeps reincarnating. Speaking of, I was a bit surprised you only had a little over 1100 posts. Most of the other passionate NCL non-refund defenders have over 20,000. You must be somewhat new to the crew.

Just as you choose to believe that anyone who posts policy is a defender, I choose to believe you are an imposter.  Good luck with your refund.  Turning off notifications now.