PVSA

[seaworthy1]

I know this has been asked and answered many times, but can anyone tell me if I can book a B2B Hawaii to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Seattle? Thanks in advance.

[seaworthy1]

42 minutes ago, seaworthy1 said:

I know this has been asked and answered many times, but can anyone tell me if I can book a B2B Hawaii to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Seattle? Thanks in advance.

What if you changed ships?  Instead of Vancouver to Seattle on the Solstice you took the Milly Vancouver/Anchorage with out an overnight (leaving on same day as Solstice arrival). Crazy, I know. 

[1025cruise]

A B2B that starts by you getting on a ship in Hawaii and getting off in Seattle (the fact that you stop in Vancouver on the way is irrelevant) is against the PVSA.

 

If you change ships, that should be fine.

[gerelmx]

No, someones do it when the cruise has a stop in Victoria the day before or after Vancouver, but in this one Victoria it's at the end before arriving to Seattle.  Will work when you disembark in Vancouver and next day embark at Victoria or reverse.

[Fouremco]

 

24 minutes ago, gerelmx said:

No, someones do it when the cruise has a stop in Victoria the day before or after Vancouver, but in this one Victoria it's at the end before arriving to Seattle.  Will work when you disembark in Vancouver and next day embark at Victoria or reverse.

Geraldo, the only Hawaii - Vancouver cruises currently offered by Celebrity don't stop in Victoria. Instead, they do an overnight stop in Lahaina, a much better choice IMO.

[K.T.B.]

5 hours ago, seaworthy1 said:

I know this has been asked and answered many times, but can anyone tell me if I can book a B2B Hawaii to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Seattle? Thanks in advance.

 

Yes.  On my first Alaskan cruise there was a group of people who did just that.  So unless something has changed since 2006, you can.

[npcl]

If the cruise originates in Hawaii and you book the cruise B2B on the same ship then the answer is no.  Because you start in a US port and end in a different US port without stopping at a far distant port.

 

I would expect that if the cruise lines allows you to book it, you will get a notification 4-8 weeks prior to departure (about the time they actually check these things) that the combination is not allowed.

 

 

Edited August 23, 2020 by npcl

[npcl]

13 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Yes.  On my first Alaskan cruise there was a group of people who did just that.  So unless something has changed since 2006, you can.

Did your Alaskan cruise start in a US port or was it a closed loop out of Vancouver?  If the first cruise started in Vancouver then returned to Vancouver before heading to Seattle it would be allowed.

 

If the cruise started in Alaska (Seward for example) then went to Vancouver, then to Seattle it would not be.

Edited August 23, 2020 by npcl

[Turtles06]

9 hours ago, seaworthy1 said:

I know this has been asked and answered many times, but can anyone tell me if I can book a B2B Hawaii to Vancouver and then Vancouver to Seattle? Thanks in advance.

 

Sorry, no it would violate the PVSA.  A cruise line can't take you from one U.S. port to a different U.S. port unless there's a stop along the way at what the law calls a "distant foreign port" (not just any foreign port), and ports in Canada and Mexico, among other places, are not considered to be "distant foreign ports" under the Act.

[Turtles06]

3 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Yes.  On my first Alaskan cruise there was a group of people who did just that.  So unless something has changed since 2006, you can.

 

Did what?  Respectfully, what the OP is asking is not permitted under the PVSA, as others have said above. 

[K.T.B.]

3 hours ago, npcl said:

Did your Alaskan cruise start in a US port or was it a closed loop out of Vancouver?  If the first cruise started in Vancouver then returned to Vancouver before heading to Seattle it would be allowed.

 

If the cruise started in Alaska (Seward for example) then went to Vancouver, then to Seattle it would not be.

 

Wasn't my cruise for the first leg.

 

Started in Hawaii, ended in Vancouver and the next cruise began in Vancouver.

Edited August 23, 2020 by K.T.B.

[npcl]

54 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Wasn't my cruise for the first leg.

 

Started in Hawaii, ended in Vancouver and the next cruise began in Vancouver.

The key is where did the next cruise end.

 

Was the next cruise one way or was it a closed loop cruise to Alaska that came back to Vancouver? 

 

If they started in Hawaii and ended all of their cruises in Vancouver it is legal (only their starting and end points matter).

 

For example Hawaii to Vancouver  B2B  Vancouver to Vancouver  is legal

 

Even Hawaii to Vancouver  B2B Vancouver to Seward  B2B  Seward to Vancouver   would also be legal

 

but Hawaii to Vancouver  B2B Vancouver to Seattle is not.

Edited August 23, 2020 by npcl

[Cruise Raider]

What you describe is a violation of the PVSA and you won't be allowed to do it.  Even if you were allowed to book it, the cruise line will cancel that sailing (probably the second leg) and it may not be done in a timely manner that you will appreciate. 

We did a sailing from Seattle to Vancouver and asked about sailing from Vancouver to Los Angeles.  We were told it was a violation of the PVSA, as our embarkation port and our debarkation port were different US ports, with no stop at a distant foreign port during our sailing.  We decided to stay in Vancouver overnight and catch a ship that was sailing down to San Francisco instead.  This met the requirements of the PVSA and we had a great time in Vancouver to boot.  

[Cruise Wonderland]

13 hours ago, seaworthy1 said:

What if you changed ships?  Instead of Vancouver to Seattle on the Solstice you took the Milly Vancouver/Anchorage with out an overnight (leaving on same day as Solstice arrival). Crazy, I know. 

10 hours ago, 1025cruise said:

A B2B that starts by you getting on a ship in Hawaii and getting off in Seattle (the fact that you stop in Vancouver on the way is irrelevant) is against the PVSA.

 

If you change ships, that should be fine.

 

8 hours ago, npcl said:

If the cruise originates in Hawaii and you book the cruise B2B on the same ship then the answer is no.  Because you start in a US port and end in a different US port without stopping at a far distant port.

 

I would expect that if the cruise lines allows you to book it, you will get a notification 4-8 weeks prior to departure (about the time they actually check these things) that the combination is not allowed.

 

 

 

May I know why it is allowed if changing to another ship, but not allowed if staying on the same ship?

 

Case 1: Hawaii >> (ship A) >> Vancouver >> (ship A) >> Seattle   NOT ALLOWED

Case 2: Hawaii >> (ship A) >> Vancouver >> (ship B) >> Seattle   ALLOWED

In Case 1, can a passenger disembark in Vancouver first, complete all the immigration formalities for entering Canada, and then check-in again on the same day for the second cruise (a separate booking), pass through immigration again to leave Canada and re-enter to USA?

[NantahalaCruiser]

2 hours ago, Cruise Wonderland said:

 

 

May I know why it is allowed if changing to another ship, but not allowed if staying on the same ship?

 

Case 1: Hawaii >> (ship A) >> Vancouver >> (ship A) >> Seattle   NOT ALLOWED

Case 2: Hawaii >> (ship A) >> Vancouver >> (ship B) >> Seattle   ALLOWED

In Case 1, can a passenger disembark in Vancouver first, complete all the immigration formalities for entering Canada, and then check-in again on the same day for the second cruise (a separate booking), pass through immigration again to leave Canada and re-enter to USA?

Because the Act specifically applies to passenger transportation with embarkment at a US port and disembarkment at a different US port on an individual vessel since the purpose of the Act is to prevent a foreign vessel from competing in the trade of transporting passengers between two US ports

Edited August 24, 2020 by NantahalaCruiser

[npcl]

2 hours ago, Cruise Wonderland said:

 

 

May I know why it is allowed if changing to another ship, but not allowed if staying on the same ship?

 

Case 1: Hawaii >> (ship A) >> Vancouver >> (ship A) >> Seattle   NOT ALLOWED

Case 2: Hawaii >> (ship A) >> Vancouver >> (ship B) >> Seattle   ALLOWED

In Case 1, can a passenger disembark in Vancouver first, complete all the immigration formalities for entering Canada, and then check-in again on the same day for the second cruise (a separate booking), pass through immigration again to leave Canada and re-enter to USA?

If it is the same ship it does not matter if it is same booking or different booking.  As far as PVSA is concerned you boarded initially in Hawaii, you got off the ship for the last time in Seattle. Two different US cities without a stop at a distant foreign port.

 

Because if it was the same ship it would have provided transportation from 1 US city to another without a stop at a distant foreign port.  If you change ships then it is considered two different trips.  One from a US city to a foreign city and a second trip from the foreign city to a US city.

 

If for example you were you were to get off in Vancouver and spend a few days while the ship went off on another cruise, then you caught it when it got back and then did the trip from Vancouver to Seattle then that would be allowed because their was a break in travel even on the same ship.

 

From my point of view if one was trying the two different ship approach you might make sure that the second ship is a different cruise line.  Just to be certain. Though in this case I doubt that there are too many vancouver to Seattle sailing that would line up with a Hawaii to Vancouver cruise.

Edited August 24, 2020 by npcl

[Cruise Wonderland]

Thank you both for the explanation. Last year I sailed on the below route:

Ship A: Los Angeles > San Francisco > Victoria > Vancouver

Ship B: Vancouver > Seattle

Both ships were in Vancouver on the same day. Hence I disembarked from Ship A, then immediately went to the other side of the Canada Place cruise terminal, and embarked on Ship B.

 

15 hours ago, seaworthy1 said:

What if you changed ships?  Instead of Vancouver to Seattle on the Solstice you took the Milly Vancouver/Anchorage with out an overnight (leaving on same day as Solstice arrival). Crazy, I know. 

@seaworthy1 Therefore the answer is "yes" if you change to another ship. I am the crazy person who already tried this before, even for two ships from different cruise lines. My combination was 5 nights + 1 night, but your plan would probably be longer at 10+ nights + 7 nights.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Cruise Wonderland

[NantahalaCruiser]

5 minutes ago, Cruise Wonderland said:

Thank you both for the explanation. Last year I sailed on the below route:

Ship A: Los Angeles > San Francisco > Victoria > Vancouver

Ship B: Vancouver > Seattle

Both ships were in Vancouver on the same day. Hence I disembarked from Ship A, then immediately went to the other side of the Canada Place cruise terminal, and embarked on Ship B.

 

@seaworthy1 Therefore the answer is "yes" if you change to another ship. I am the crazy person who already tried this before, even for two ships from different cruise lines. 

Note also that it is a PVSA violation to book passage from LA to Vancouver and intentionally disembark in San Francisco - although I am sure that there are medical emergency and missed ship exceptions.

[Cruise Wonderland]

3 minutes ago, NantahalaCruiser said:

Note also that it is a PVSA violation to book passage from LA to Vancouver and intentionally disembark in San Francisco - although I am sure that there are medical emergency and missed ship exceptions.

I have read from NCL forum that, even though it is a medical emergency, the cruise line will be charged with a "penalty" for the PVSA violation, which in turn will be charged to the guest's onboard account. Last year a passenger showed her onboard account statement in the forum.

[BEAV]

 

 

7 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Wasn't my cruise for the first leg.

 

Started in Hawaii, ended in Vancouver and the next cruise began in Vancouver.

 

Sounds like a Spring reposition to Alaska for summer season.

 

Prior to Hawaii, if the ship came from other than a US port (such as Solstice has come from Sydney in recent years), those who boarded in Australia would be legally able to sail 3 segments (Sydney-Honolulu, Honolulu-Vancouver, Vancouver-Seattle). But not those originating in Honolulu. 

[chengkp75]

6 hours ago, Cruise Wonderland said:

I have read from NCL forum that, even though it is a medical emergency, the cruise line will be charged with a "penalty" for the PVSA violation, which in turn will be charged to the guest's onboard account. Last year a passenger showed her onboard account statement in the forum.

This is true, but the cruise line will provide the case number to the passenger, and it is up to the passenger to contact CBP and get the fine waived on medical reasons.  Done all the time.

[1025cruise]

I suppose if we wanted to get technical, it is against the PVSA for the same cruise line to transport you between 2 US ports without a foreign distant port. So technically, if both cruises were on Celebrity, this would be a violation. However, its not likely to be caught, versus staying on the same ship. This is the same reason "British Airways" can't fly you from London to Houston, with a layover in NY. Even if you changed planes, they are still the ones providing transport. 

[chengkp75]

2 minutes ago, 1025cruise said:

I suppose if we wanted to get technical, it is against the PVSA for the same cruise line to transport you between 2 US ports without a foreign distant port. So technically, if both cruises were on Celebrity, this would be a violation. However, its not likely to be caught, versus staying on the same ship. This is the same reason "British Airways" can't fly you from London to Houston, with a layover in NY. Even if you changed planes, they are still the ones providing transport. 

No, it is not illegal for two ships of the same company to transport you between two US ports.  Those are considered to be two separate voyages, since it involves two ships.

 

As far as the airline example, the airlines use "code share" partners, where the flight from NYC to Houston will be listed as both a British Air flight number, and a US carrier flight number.  This allows the sharing of aircraft.  The flight from London to Houston, for a passenger going all the way, would be a British Air flight, while a person originating in NYC could not book that flight via British Air, but could be on the same aircraft, having booked through and using the US partner's flight number.

[Wine-O]

When are we going to do away with these archaic laws?   I suppose we'd have to get rid of the union first.  🍷

[chengkp75]

1 minute ago, Wine-O said:

When are we going to do away with these archaic laws?   I suppose we'd have to get rid of the union first.  🍷

Even foreign flag ships are unionized, and do you know who the largest and loudest faction is that requires all foreign ships entering the US to be unionized?  The maritime unions?  Nope.  The Longshoremen's union.  They refuse to work non-union ships, regardless of flag.  You want to do away with the PVSA for cruise ships, right?  Then why would the unions care, since there are no jobs there anyway.  The PVSA protects US jobs (many non-union, or small company unions) in the other array of passenger vessels that trade domestically in the US (ferries, water taxis, casino boats, dinner cruises, sightseeing and whale watching boats, and large charter fishing vessels).