Required to take a HAL excursion to leave the ship in future?

[ABoatNerd]

Basically, I will not be "processed by a cruise line" on board or on a shore excursion. 

 

The ports are the reason I cruise. I will see them my way or not at all or actually via the internet in the comfort and control of my home.

[LocoLoco1]

I think cruising and going ashore as we knew it is Toast. Fin. Done. Over. Whyso?? This won’t be the last Int’l. pandemic. I’m glad I cruised and snooped when and where I did. 

[Mary229]

I am going to get a vaccine.  The CDC announced  distribution guidelines yesterday.  Healthcare workers, those with medical conditions and over 65 will get them first.  Fauci commented that the supply won't be adequate for all until a few months into 2021.  I like my odds that my next cruise will be much as it has always been.  Next cruise for us is July 2021

 

CNBC news release from CDC

[JB Books]

I'm not going to be first in line to get a vaccine just so I can go on a cruise. Maybe, after it's been out there for a little while to demonstrate that there's not any significant adverse reactions, but to hurry hurry hurry to get on a cruise will not be be the primary factor in my decision making process.

[Mary229]

4 hours ago, JB Books said:

I'm not going to be first in line to get a vaccine just so I can go on a cruise. Maybe, after it's been out there for a little while to demonstrate that there's not any significant adverse reactions, but to hurry hurry hurry to get on a cruise will not be be the primary factor in my decision making process.

I actually signed up for the trial.  Someone has to do it and due to my career I have been exposed to many exotic viruses.  I will let you know how I do once called.   I am not doing it for a cruise.  I am doing it because it is time to move past this and I am taking a leadership position 

Edited August 27, 2020 by Mary229

[PSR]

9 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I actually signed up for the trial.  Someone has to do it and due to my career I have been exposed to many exotic viruses.  I will let you know how I do once called.   I am not doing it for a cruise.  I am doing it because it is time to move past this and I am taking a leadership position 

 

When you signed up, did they tell you if you participated, you couldn't get the "final" vaccine when it is approved for the general public? I read that they track trial participants for 2 years or so for side effects, etc. Wouldn't getting a 2nd vaccine interfere with the study? I was looking into a trial locally, also.

[sail7seas]

On 8/24/2020 at 4:32 PM, ontheweb said:

That is not true; it is what the cruise lines want you to believe. You can use an approved Russian tour agency and they supply the same visa waiver as the ship's cruise tours supply.

 

The one we used was Alla, but there are several others. And if you go to the Baltic boards on cc and look you will also find others and see that all generally get great reviews.

 

 

IMO,

 

As much as the cruse line know how eager many of us are to cruise again, I think they are smart enough to know they can only "FORCE" just so many new greed based rules on us if they wan t our  heads in their beds.  When ,   if, the ships start taking  guests again so also will much other travel open up for bookings .  Choices.  We will have choices and that is always good!

 

The cruise lines will Need to lure us aboard and stuffing too  many greedy money making requirements at us likely will send  many of us  to hotels/ resorts and ground vacations.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 27, 2020 by sail7seas

[Mary229]

8 minutes ago, PSR said:

 

When you signed up, did they tell you if you participated, you couldn't get the "final" vaccine when it is approved for the general public? I read that they track trial participants for 2 years or so for side effects, etc. Wouldn't getting a 2nd vaccine interfere with the study? I was looking into a trial locally, also.

They haven’t called yet so no details to share.  I signed up a few months ago.  There has to be an appropriate opening in your area to be assigned. I am strictly using NIH not private labs 

[PSR]

1 minute ago, Mary229 said:

They haven’t called yet so no details to share.  I signed up a few months ago.  There has to be an appropriate opening in your area to be assigned. I am strictly using NIH not private labs 

 

Thanks for the quick response. Guess I will have to ask them if I decide to to apply; I think they are looking for diversity in ages, gender, race, etc. to get a good mix of people.

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, PSR said:

 

Thanks for the quick response. Guess I will have to ask them if I decide to to apply; I think they are looking for diversity in ages, gender, race, etc. to get a good mix of people.

Right.  Each study is regional with demographic requirements. There was a woman in my neighborhood assigned who was in my age group with pre-existing conditions - so they are looking for a broad cross section 

[lyndarra]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:35 AM, ABoatNerd said:

Basically, I will not be "processed by a cruise line" on board or on a shore excursion. 

 

The ports are the reason I cruise. I will see them my way or not at all or actually via the internet in the comfort and control of my home.

The ports are also the reason I cruise. I enjoy Geocaching as it takes me to many interesting places one would not normally see when on a guided tour.

An example was an MSC ship tour I did in Lisbon, Portugal last October. The 2.5 hour "Wine Tasting" tour was an overpriced waste of time and money. The wine tasting consisted of walking to a (nice) cafe where we were served one (very) small glass of port and some nuts, next, an inordinately long visit to a small, historic(?) church, then walk to a scenic viewing point of the city (spent far too long there too) and a funicular tram ride back down the hill to the city centre. After the tour I went off and did some geocaching and learnt about and saw a lot more interesting things, places, monuments, in one hour than on the walking tour.

I'm looking forward to a time when I can again safely travel internationally to do (mostly) land tours.

 

Edited August 28, 2020 by lyndarra
word omission

[ABoatNerd]

lyndarra. I agree with you. It is about the ports, much less about the ship experience.

 

We generally arrange our own tours, so having to be "processed" with many others is not something we will purchase. If this becomes the norm going forward - cruise line only tours - then there will be no cruises for us and frankly many of our friends.

 

There is a good selection of high end escorted tour companies that provide in depth touring, minus all the revenue generating stops. These companies also provide a good amount of free time so customers can customize.  This is where my $ will be going in the future. Add on your pre or post tour with a customized agent and guide and car and driver, well it is beyond excellent.  We enjoy eating in the local restaurants to experience real regional food - not the same old same old on a ship.

 

But to each their own.  

 

 

[Hlitner]

16 hours ago, PSR said:

 

When you signed up, did they tell you if you participated, you couldn't get the "final" vaccine when it is approved for the general public? I read that they track trial participants for 2 years or so for side effects, etc. Wouldn't getting a 2nd vaccine interfere with the study? I was looking into a trial locally, also.

Tis a great question and one that haunts all drug trials.  Consider that even if that "requirement" is part of the documents you are given (and sign) at the beginning of a trial is would be completely NON-enforceable.   For example, a person enrolled in a trial could simply go to their local pharmacy and get any vaccine administered at that facility.  A big issue with any large trial is the honestly/dishonesty of the participants.  The companies that actually conduct the trials are aware of the "noncompliance" issue and try to factor it into their statistical calculations...but it is an inexact science.  This was a big problem in the early days of the HIV/AIDs epidemic where many participants in trials were less then forthright when completing related questionnaires.

 

By the way, it is interesting to consider that approximately 50% of folks on prescription drugs are non-adherent (which means they do not take their drugs as prescribed) and will generally not reveal this to their physician.  We used to ask our HIV clients if there were taking their drugs as prescribed and it was the rare person that admitted "no."  Its kind of like the person who goes their dentist and says they floss daily when they do not even have any floss in their home.

 

Hank

[JB Books]

 I'm heavily into simplifying my life. No way I'd want to get involved with a drug trial, because there's a hell of a lot of extra effort and downside to it. It's not like this covid-19 is the bubonic plague. I can wait until a safe and effective vaccine comes out, which shouldn't be too much longer.

Edited August 28, 2020 by JB Books
grammar

[cruzingnut]

16 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Right.  Each study is regional with demographic requirements. There was a woman in my neighborhood assigned who was in my age group with pre-existing conditions - so they are looking for a broad cross section 

 

Mary, I wonder if you could start a new thread about this?  I would be interested in following you and any others that decide to do the same thing.  I would think this would be something that all of us are interested in; seeing how this goes for people and how it bodes for the future of cruising.

 

I applaud your joining the trial, I did one years ago and was happy to help.  We had a local announcement here for volunteers for the vaccine trials and I didn't fit the age group.  I will admit though that I would be hesitant to do this in this instance....

 

Linda R.

[Hlitner]

22 minutes ago, cruzingnut said:

 

Mary, I wonder if you could start a new thread about this?  I would be interested in following you and any others that decide to do the same thing.  I would think this would be something that all of us are interested in; seeing how this goes for people and how it bodes for the future of cruising.

 

I applaud your joining the trial, I did one years ago and was happy to help.  We had a local announcement here for volunteers for the vaccine trials and I didn't fit the age group.  I will admit though that I would be hesitant to do this in this instance....

 

Linda R.

The thing about drug trials is that the participants in Phase 3 Trials are not even aware if they get the vaccine or a placebo.  As a general rule that information is not given to the participants until the Trials are completed (which is usually several years) if at all.  This really creates a mess in cases (like COVID) where there may well be multiple vaccines that finally hit the market.  A person who is in a trial, not being sure if they even got the real vaccine, may go to an outlet and get another (or even the same) vaccine.  Of course these folks will generally keep their actions a secret.  I once attended a conference forum where one of the participants was from a third party company (not the actual pharmaceutical company) that was contracted (by drug companies) to conduct worldwide trials.  The lecturer had a slide of "events that ruin trials" and this was considered one of the worst.  I remember the lecturer laughing about the problem and telling the audience that it was actually a minor issue since it is very rare when there are competing vaccines...but it is a much bigger problem with drugs.  But with COVID, competing vaccines may well happen.  You also would then have to wonder about folks who would go and get multiple vaccines (cover all the bases) which is something not likely covered during the early trials.  

 

Speaking of competing vaccines it does happen.  Most recently it was an issue with Shingles.  The first approved vaccine was only about 50% effective and was quite expensive (we paid about $200 for that shot).  Within a few short years another vaccine was approved with a much higher effective rate (we got that too).  It also happened with Polio when the original Salk Vaccine was superseded by the Sabin vaccine (most kids got both).  But with COVID it is very possible we may have 2 or more vaccines approved around the same time.   This is the kind of thing that drives the researchers nutz but is seldom discussed with the general public.

 

Hank

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 

@cruzingnut@hiltner

 

The control of the study is why I signed up exclusively at the NIH website.  For updates or to sign up  NIH Covid19 website   I filled my application during the first week of announcement and they were already oversubscribed.  The last I heard the people in our age group were fully represented.  They were attempting to find more genetically Hispanic people in my region.  

 

I doubt I will be called.  The questionnaire led me to believe they were seeking people with more mandatory exposure to public places.  I work at home and am a homebody when not traveling, for work or pleasure,  so I may not fit their needs.  

[KirkNC]

19 hours ago, Mary229 said:

I actually signed up for the trial.  Someone has to do it and due to my career I have been exposed to many exotic viruses.  I will let you know how I do once called.   I am not doing it for a cruise.  I am doing it because it is time to move past this and I am taking a leadership position 

We signed up as well several weeks ago but have never heard a peep.  I am afraid our behavior may not be risky enough to help them (you fill out a questionnaire on how much you mingle with others). 

[KirkNC]

I continue to caution those who seem to think vaccines are a silver bullet.  Baring political intervention we are looking at three to six more months minimum before one gets approved and they HOPE it will be 50% or more effective.  Of course it has to be made and distributed to six billion people and let’s not forget the 20-30% who say they won’t get vaccinated.  Many articles have been written that vaccines won’t necessarily change things back to normal.

Edited August 28, 2020 by KirkNC

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

I continue to caution those who seem to think vaccines are a silver bullet.  Baring political intervention we are looking at three to six more months minimum before one gets approved and they HOPE it will be 50% or more effective.  Of course it has to be made and distributed to six billion people and let’s not forget the 20-30% who say they won’t get vaccinated.  Many articles have been written that vaccines won’t necessarily change things back to normal.

I agree but such is the world that I will think even a 1/2 good vaccine will be enough to remove many of the governmental restrictions in place

[ontheweb]

9 hours ago, Hlitner said:

The thing about drug trials is that the participants in Phase 3 Trials are not even aware if they get the vaccine or a placebo.  As a general rule that information is not given to the participants until the Trials are completed (which is usually several years) if at all.  This really creates a mess in cases (like COVID) where there may well be multiple vaccines that finally hit the market.  A person who is in a trial, not being sure if they even got the real vaccine, may go to an outlet and get another (or even the same) vaccine.  Of course these folks will generally keep their actions a secret.  I once attended a conference forum where one of the participants was from a third party company (not the actual pharmaceutical company) that was contracted (by drug companies) to conduct worldwide trials.  The lecturer had a slide of "events that ruin trials" and this was considered one of the worst.  I remember the lecturer laughing about the problem and telling the audience that it was actually a minor issue since it is very rare when there are competing vaccines...but it is a much bigger problem with drugs.  But with COVID, competing vaccines may well happen.  You also would then have to wonder about folks who would go and get multiple vaccines (cover all the bases) which is something not likely covered during the early trials.  

 

Speaking of competing vaccines it does happen.  Most recently it was an issue with Shingles.  The first approved vaccine was only about 50% effective and was quite expensive (we paid about $200 for that shot).  Within a few short years another vaccine was approved with a much higher effective rate (we got that too).  It also happened with Polio when the original Salk Vaccine was superseded by the Sabin vaccine (most kids got both).  But with COVID it is very possible we may have 2 or more vaccines approved around the same time.   This is the kind of thing that drives the researchers nutz but is seldom discussed with the general public.

 

Hank

@Hlitner, a question for you as you seem to be up on vaccine test protocols. From what I have read some of the vaccines may need booster shots. How will this be tested? Since the tests have to be blind, how would you make sure those who had received the real vaccine got the real booster and those who received the placebo received a placebo booster?

[Hlitner]

19 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

@Hlitner, a question for you as you seem to be up on vaccine test protocols. From what I have read some of the vaccines may need booster shots. How will this be tested? Since the tests have to be blind, how would you make sure those who had received the real vaccine got the real booster and those who received the placebo received a placebo booster?

I assume there are various ways but one method, with which I am familiar, involves using codes on the doses (or larger vials).  It could be as simple as having an "A" Group and "B" Group.  If the booster shot(s) were the same formula you would just keep each to their group.  In theory you could even use a similar method if formulas varies by labeling vials with "A1" and "A2."  Using codes keeps the trial blind.   

 

Hank

[denatravels]

I mostly do HAL cruises in Europe, so I really hope this is not the future.
That being said, if it is, I will comply. Good for MSC for denying boarding!


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Mary229]

Just saying - many cruise lines have had in place shore excursions in the price.  I have been on some of those cruises and mostly people go on their "free" shore excursion.  That is what I observed.  I can't say I have been too impressed with the premium cruise lines "free" shore excursions.  That said, this would likely be the best method to force compliance with mandatory shore excursions.

[Hlitner]

12 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Just saying - many cruise lines have had in place shore excursions in the price.  I have been on some of those cruises and mostly people go on their "free" shore excursion.  That is what I observed.  I can't say I have been too impressed with the premium cruise lines "free" shore excursions.  That said, this would likely be the best method to force compliance with mandatory shore excursions.

We have been on some cruises where we had free cruise excursions.  In keeping with our strong dislike (am being polite) of large group excursions we avoided the excursions.  To us it is not an issue of price but an issue of freedom.  DW and I prefer to do what we want, when we want, with who we want.  Being crammed into a large tour bus with 60 other cruisers is not our idea of fun.

 

Hank