Required ship's tours in future?

[the more ports the better]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

Hate to tell you but there has never been a vaccine that’s 100% effective.  Most are around 50-60%.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm

I was speaking from what I saw one of the TV Dr's saying the other day.

 

 

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

I come onto the cruise critic boards for cruise advice and I have zero social media and never have because of statements like this.  All this antivax rhetoric is just dangerous.  I shared my participation in the trial and the data they provided because it directly benefits our Oceania community.  Next time I’ll keep my experience to myself as I must have been completely confused when I was given the data. The TV doctors for sure know better than people performing the studies and the flu vaccine effectiveness obviously is identical to the effectiveness of all vaccines worldwide.  Silly me!

[dkbustr]

20 minutes ago, the more ports the better said:

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

I come onto the cruise critic boards for cruise advice and I have zero social media and never have because of statements like this.  All this antivax rhetoric is just dangerous.  I shared my participation in the trial and the data they provided because it directly benefits our Oceania community.  Next time I’ll keep my experience to myself as I must have been completely confused when I was given the data. The TV doctors for sure know better than people performing the studies and the flu vaccine effectiveness obviously is identical to the effectiveness of all vaccines worldwide.  Silly me!

I have to agree with both posters here.  I believe that a vaccine is only considered to be 60% effective, because 40% of the people refuse to get the vaccine.  While I understand those who refuse to vaccinate, have concerns about side effects especially with a "rushed" trial period, I believe personally that a sore arm hardly is a cause for alarm.

This vaccine could very well be highly effective as the poster states, but still be only considered 60% effective because of refusal to use.  

Although it will be a tough sell for a mandatory vaccine across the public, I believe Oceania will be within their rights to require both doses of the vaccine before boarding.  This would eliminate any need for required Oceania sponsored excursions. I for one visit an area to immerse myself in the culture, let alone avoid the triple costs of O excursions.

[KirkNC]

47 minutes ago, the more ports the better said:

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

I come onto the cruise critic boards for cruise advice and I have zero social media and never have because of statements like this.  All this antivax rhetoric is just dangerous.  I shared my participation in the trial and the data they provided because it directly benefits our Oceania community.  Next time I’ll keep my experience to myself as I must have been completely confused when I was given the data. The TV doctors for sure know better than people performing the studies and the flu vaccine effectiveness obviously is identical to the effectiveness of all vaccines worldwide.  Silly me!

Did you even read the link to the CDC.....🙄
 

by the way did you know it took over 200 years from the time the small pox vaccine was first used until smallpox was considered eradicated?

 

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

 

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by KirkNC

[ORV]

54 minutes ago, the more ports the better said:

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

I come onto the cruise critic boards for cruise advice and I have zero social media and never have because of statements like this.  All this antivax rhetoric is just dangerous.  I shared my participation in the trial and the data they provided because it directly benefits our Oceania community.  Next time I’ll keep my experience to myself as I must have been completely confused when I was given the data. The TV doctors for sure know better than people performing the studies and the flu vaccine effectiveness obviously is identical to the effectiveness of all vaccines worldwide.  Silly me!

 No please don’t leave. I would appreciate you sharing a link for the info you posted though. Otherwise it’s just random stuff posted on the internet. With all due respect we have no idea who you are and what you’re saying is true. A google search  does not reveal any of this info on the Pfizer trial

[sunlover12]

37 minutes ago, the more ports the better said:

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

+1

I agree with that.  The MMR vaccine also has a 97% effective rate.  I believe that school districts require it and that's why we don't hear about outbreaks anymore.  I think many of us on this board are old enough to remember classmates getting measles and mumps before the vaccine was manufactured.  The influenza vaccine is not as effective, as we all know, but it does provide for some protection. I can only speak for myself but in the last 12 years I've been getting it, I have not been getting sick.  It's too early, of course, to know how effective the Covid-19 vaccine will be.    JMO   

 

Once the vaccine has been widely distributed,  I think that all cruise lines will be requiring passengers to get the vaccine in order to do any cruising.  Same with airlines.     JMO, of course. 

 

 

[Ladys Mom]

If the FDA or the CDC thought that the Pfizer drug was that close to being approved it would be all over the news and mentioned daily by him in the white house.  That has not been the case.  The best case scenario I have heard is first quarter of 2021.  There are however several tests that can be used that are quick and greater than 90% reliable.  More likely, before cruise lines go down the trail of requiring a vaccine before boarding, they will set up a system for daily monitoring of passengers and crew.  This still will necessitate doing ships' only to reduce the chances of infection.  For one who travels on Regent, far more than on Oceania, I find including the shore excursions to generally be the way to go.  Once in a while we hit a dud, but mostly they are great.  Since Oceania and Regent are sister companies, when I have looked at shore excursions for comparable cruises they usually are pretty close.  

[Nashna]

2 hours ago, the more ports the better said:

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

I come onto the cruise critic boards for cruise advice and I have zero social media and never have because of statements like this.  All this antivax rhetoric is just dangerous.  I shared my participation in the trial and the data they provided because it directly benefits our Oceania community.  Next time I’ll keep my experience to myself as I must have been completely confused when I was given the data. The TV doctors for sure know better than people performing the studies and the flu vaccine effectiveness obviously is identical to the effectiveness of all vaccines worldwide.  Silly me!

Thank you.  I appreciate your willingness to share your actual experience.  Sadly, too many people today have developed a habit of disavowing science.  Your participation in a vaccine trail is a positive way to combat the virus. 

[Paulchili]

2 hours ago, the more ports the better said:

Hmmm, Is that why we don’t have things like small pox and diphtheria anymore.  You’ll always have a few outlier patients but many many vaccines are 95% to 99.5% effective and our trial has been a complete success as have the other two.  
 

I come onto the cruise critic boards for cruise advice and I have zero social media and never have because of statements like this.  All this antivax rhetoric is just dangerous.  I shared my participation in the trial and the data they provided because it directly benefits our Oceania community.  Next time I’ll keep my experience to myself as I must have been completely confused when I was given the data. The TV doctors for sure know better than people performing the studies and the flu vaccine effectiveness obviously is identical to the effectiveness of all vaccines worldwide.  Silly me!

Agree with you and greatly appreciate your participation in and keeping us posted about your trials - please don't stop.

I have mentioned it before - I would settle for the vaccine to be at least (and hopefully even more) effective as the flu vaccine is.

I get it annually for many years without a case of flu so far.

PS - vaccines are also very effective against tetanus and pertussis (whooping cough).

So people - vaccinate when it's proven to be safe and effective - for yourself and others.

[Paulchili]

1 hour ago, Ladys Mom said:

For one who travels on Regent, far more than on Oceania, I find including the shore excursions to generally be the way to go.  Once in a while we hit a dud, but mostly they are great

I don't quite understand the benefit of these excursions to prevent COVID. Do they put you in a bubble from which you cannot leave? Or is it just a bus tour without getting off?

Otherwise you will come into contact with locals just like everyone else.

[Ladys Mom]

1 hour ago, Paulchili said:

I don't quite understand the benefit of these excursions to prevent COVID. Do they put you in a bubble from which you cannot leave? Or is it just a bus tour without getting off?

Otherwise you will come into contact with locals just like everyone else.

I only believe they may do it because it worked for MSC.  If they know where you have been it is easier to do contact tracing if you get a positive test.  This is based on my assumption that all cruise lines will be testing when they finally set sail again.  If they let passengers go wherever they want, then it will be harder to trace where they caught the virus if they test positive.  If everyone has to use the ship's tours it also is possible that the price of tours will go down.  All of this is just my opinion.

[Paulchili]

8 minutes ago, Ladys Mom said:

I only believe they may do it because it worked for MSC.  If they know where you have been it is easier to do contact tracing if you get a positive test.  This is based on my assumption that all cruise lines will be testing when they finally set sail again.  If they let passengers go wherever they want, then it will be harder to trace where they caught the virus if they test positive.  If everyone has to use the ship's tours it also is possible that the price of tours will go down.  All of this is just my opinion.

While tracing is important to the "home country", it's irrelevant to the cruise ship.

If someone returns to the ship testing positive, regardless whether they got it on a ship's tour or private tour they will be:

1 Not allowed to re board

2 Isolated in their cabin.

Tracing is mostly irrelevant to the cruise ship.

 

Edited September 1, 2020 by Paulchili

[Ladys Mom]

12 minutes ago, Paulchili said:

While tracing is important to the "home country", it's irrelevant to the cruise ship.

If someone returns to the ship testing positive, regardless whether they got it on a ship's tour or private tour they will be:

1 Not allowed to re board

2 Isolated in their cabin.

Tracing is mostly irrelevant to the cruise ship.

 

If they let the passenger rebound the ship, isolate them in their cabin, and they either get really sick or die, the family cannot sue the cruise line because they told them not to go out by themselves.

[Paulchili]

19 minutes ago, Ladys Mom said:

If they let the passenger rebound the ship, isolate them in their cabin, and they either get really sick or die, the family cannot sue the cruise line because they told them not to go out by themselves.

What if they got sick on a ship's tour - like in a gift shop where 99% of tours visit.

Can they then sue the cruise line?

[Ladys Mom]

4 hours ago, Paulchili said:

What if they got sick on a ship's tour - like in a gift shop where 99% of tours visit.

Can they then sue the cruise line?

I think gift shops. in this scenario will be off limits.  I really have no idea what the cruise lines will do.  I guess they will do what is safest for their passengers and crew, while trying to keep the bottom line as high as possible.

[ABoatNerd]

And the point of spending $ on a cruise product to be potentially isolated in one's cabin is what?

[ORV]

On 9/1/2020 at 9:04 AM, dkbustr said:

I have to agree with both posters here.  I believe that a vaccine is only considered to be 60% effective, because 40% of the people refuse to get the vaccine.  While I understand those who refuse to vaccinate, have concerns about side effects especially with a "rushed" trial period, I believe personally that a sore arm hardly is a cause for alarm.

This vaccine could very well be highly effective as the poster states, but still be only considered 60% effective because of refusal to use.  

Although it will be a tough sell for a mandatory vaccine across the public, I believe Oceania will be within their rights to require both doses of the vaccine before boarding.  This would eliminate any need for required Oceania sponsored excursions. I for one visit an area to immerse myself in the culture, let alone avoid the triple costs of O excursions.

I would consider it to be 100% effective if I took it and and had a 100% chance of not getting the virus. Adding in all those that refuse to be vaccinated into the effectiveness doesn't really figure in for me. 

 

According to this article below it says that participants don't know if they receive the real thing or a placebo until 2 years later. Really? That doesn't jibe at all with what was reported in this thread. Hmm?

 

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/health/2020/09/02/covid-vaccine-clinical-trial-volunteers-phase-three/3374069001/?build=native-web_i_p

Edited September 2, 2020 by ORV

[Smiley27]

Like many other cruisers, we like to do things on our own while in ports.

It would be a NO Thank you from us, If forced to go on ships’ tours.

Having said that, we already have a booked ( first for us, on Oceania) May 2021 in the Baltic. 
I have looked at the offered tours, and agree with people saying Oceania needs to up their game, but to make it easy on ourselves, we will book Oceania tours while in St. Petersburg, to avoid the hazzle of getting visas ourselves.
If people still do the basic things to avoid Covid 19, I think it will be safe to do independent tours. Also, now doctors know how to better cope with the disease...so an individual being sick could undergo treatment right away....hopefully, without the whole ship being banned from further ports.

 

Testing people before boarding is not even a sure Way to detect If someone is sick.

some tests are positive negative and visa versa......and here in Europe there is now proof that some have been hit by Covid 19 for the second time within 6 months!

This virus will probably mutate over and over, like other vira do, and we will have to Cope with it for years to come!

This should not stop us from living, but be responsible and follow government requirements.

[Issyalex]

I cannot remember the last time we took a ships tour on any cruiseline as we prefer doing our own thing while in port. 
 

If Oceania decide that ships tours will be the only way you can get off the ship then they’d need to reduce their tour prices dramatically as they are far to expensive at the moment. It would make cruising very expensive and out of reach for a lot of cruisers. 

[Issyalex]

5 hours ago, Smiley27 said:

Like many other cruisers, we like to do things on our own while in ports.

It would be a NO Thank you from us, If forced to go on ships’ tours.

Having said that, we already have a booked ( first for us, on Oceania) May 2021 in the Baltic. 
I have looked at the offered tours, and agree with people saying Oceania needs to up their game, but to make it easy on ourselves, we will book Oceania tours while in St. Petersburg, to avoid the hazzle of getting visas ourselves.
If people still do the basic things to avoid Covid 19, I think it will be safe to do independent tours. Also, now doctors know how to better cope with the disease...so an individual being sick could undergo treatment right away....hopefully, without the whole ship being banned from further ports.

 

Testing people before boarding is not even a sure Way to detect If someone is sick.

some tests are positive negative and visa versa......and here in Europe there is now proof that some have been hit by Covid 19 for the second time within 6 months!

This virus will probably mutate over and over, like other vira do, and we will have to Cope with it for years to come!

This should not stop us from living, but be responsible and follow government requirements.

I don’t know how you’d feel about doing a local operated tour just now but We booked a two day tour with DenRus, a local tour company, when we were in St P several years ago. They were excellent. A blanket visa and entrance to all the stops were included as well as two fantastic lunches for $295pp.
 

there are many more good local tour companies Eg Anastasia, Red Oktober, 

[Smiley27]

Thx Isseyalex, it is worth considering.

we Actually have been to St.P once before, had a private driver and a guide...but I did not expect to come back, so have not kept the info!

[kitty9]

That will leave me out.  O doesn't ever offer tours that accommodate those of us who are full time scooter users.  I always have to book my own tours using buses/vans that are scooter friendly.  

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

On 9/1/2020 at 12:02 PM, Paulchili said:

I don't quite understand the benefit of these excursions to prevent COVID. Do they put you in a bubble from which you cannot leave? Or is it just a bus tour without getting off?

Otherwise you will come into contact with locals just like everyone else.

 

On 9/3/2020 at 9:00 AM, Issyalex said:

I don’t know how you’d feel about doing a local operated tour just now but We booked a two day tour with DenRus, a local tour company, when we were in St P several years ago. They were excellent. A blanket visa and entrance to all the stops were included as well as two fantastic lunches for $295pp.
 

there are many more good local tour companies Eg Anastasia, Red Oktober, 

We loved Alla Tours, and for two days, we spent a lot less than if we had taken Oceania's tours.  They have small group tours.  

[IWantToLiveOverTheSea]

I'm hoping that by the time we want to cruise in Europe (early August), things will be better.  Hopefully there will be a decent, tested, and fairly effective vaccine readily available, the countries we visit will be open to Americans/other nationalities, and the Covid rate in the countries we'll visit will be fairly low.  I prefer to do my own thing for excursions, but in August if Oceania requires everyone to take their excursions, I'll grit my teeth and still go.  That was required in Cuba with Viking, and we survived. We can change our thinking if we have to because of Covid.

[EasyGoingGuy]

A good article explaining flu vaccine effectiveness (and maybe COVID).

How Effective is the Flu Vaccine?

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200902/how-effective-is-the-flu-vaccine

 

"The vaccine must be changed each year, in hopes of matching the ever-mutating viruses. And that’s been a challenge. On average, it’s been 40% effective, meaning it’s prevented illness 40% of the time. Since health officials started tracking it in 2003, effectiveness has varied from year to year, ranging from a low of 10% in 2004-05 to a high of 60% in 2010-11."

"“When we talk about building an influenza vaccine, we’re not just trying to make a vaccine for one virus, like with the measles,” says Michael L. Jackson, PhD, the principal investigator for the United States Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network from Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute. “We’re trying to make a vaccine for four different viruses all at once.”

Edited September 22, 2020 by EasyGoingGuy
add information

[cruisemom42]

13 hours ago, EasyGoingGuy said:

 

"“When we talk about building an influenza vaccine, we’re not just trying to make a vaccine for one virus, like with the measles,” says Michael L. Jackson, PhD, the principal investigator for the United States Influenza Vaccine Effectiveness Network from Kaiser Permanente Washington Health Research Institute. “We’re trying to make a vaccine for four different viruses all at once.”

 

Strange quote for a site like WebMD to publish. The measles vaccine isn't a single vaccine either -- it is bundled with mumps and rubella. Could certainly have picked a better example!

 

Any multi-strain vaccine has challenges in terms of development. A vaccine for a disease with continuous mutations is even tougher.