What if Canada doesn't open its borders for cruises?

[Cruisin Kay D]

What will happen if Canada doesn't open its borders in 2021 for cruises that begin or end in Quebec, Montreal, Vancouver?  And also including stops in places like Victoria, Halifax, Sydney etc?   

We are supposed to be on Zaandam mid-April for the repositioning from Ft. Lauderdale to Montreal for the Canada-New Engl sailings.    Since it is departing from Ft. Lauderdale, is it conceivable that the "foreign port" could be Bahamas or Bermuda if Canada still closed, and cruise would skip Canada cities and could end in Boston.  OR guessing HA would be likely to have to cancel us.   Anyone have any thoughts?   

 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

To skip Canada and end in Boston (starting from Ft Lauderdale) the cruise must visit a “distant” foreign port (meaning not in North America). To fulfill that requirement they would have to swing south to Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao or Trinidad and Tobago before heading north. Those islands are considered part of South America.  All other Caribbean Islands, the Bahamas and Bermuda are in North America so do not fulfill the requirement of a “distant” foreign port. 

[catl331]

3 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

... or Trinidad and Tobago ...

Are you sure about that? I've always understood it to be just the ABC islands or something on the mainland.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, catl331 said:

Are you sure about that? I've always understood it to be just the ABC islands or something on the mainland.

This is correct.  Trinidad & Tobago are not considered to be "distant" foreign ports.

[0bnxshs]

Just curious about how Victoria Island qualifies as a "distant" foreign port for Alaska cruises out of Seattle but Bermuda or the Bahamas don't.  Bermuda used to be a round trip destination out of Boston and NYC and still is for NCL (only one I checked, but I suspect others.)

Edited September 8, 2020 by 0bnxshs

[ronrythm]

9 minutes ago, 0bnxshs said:

Just curious about how Victoria Island qualifies as a "distant" foreign port for Alaska cruises out of Seattle but Bermuda or the Bahamas don't.  Bermuda used to be a round trip destination out of Boston and NYC and still is for NCL (only one I checked, but I suspect others.)

Victoria doesn’t qualify as a distant foreign port. You only have to do a distant foreign port if you start in one U.S. city and end in another. If it’s round trip back to the same U.S. city, it just needs to be any foreign port, so Victoria qualifies. The one way cruises in Alaska all start or end in Canada, so they don’t need a distant foreign port.
Enjoy,

Ron

[thinfool]

No 'distant' foreign port is necessary for a Ft Lauderdale>Montreal itinerary.

It would be required for Ft Lauderdale to Boston...Distant foreign ports in South America have been listed here by others.  I would add that, going north, a port in Greenland or farther east would be necessary to satisfy the 'distant' requirement.

[taxmantoo]

I think the "foreign" port issue might prove to be a very moot point in that it is much more likely that Fort Lauderdale will still be closed by then.  Nobody will be going anywhere!

[colonialinnkeeper]

I am curious how it is then that round trip from San Diego to Hawaii and back with a stop in Ensenada, Mexico qualifies for this same port to port trip?

[chengkp75]

6 minutes ago, colonialinnkeeper said:

I am curious how it is then that round trip from San Diego to Hawaii and back with a stop in Ensenada, Mexico qualifies for this same port to port trip?

A round trip (starting and ending at the same US port), only requires a stop at a "foreign port", so Ensenada qualifies.  A cruise that begins in one US port, and ends in another US port, needs to visit a "distant foreign port", as defined above.  So, to go from Seattle to San Diego, or vice versa, you would have to travel all the way to Colombia to Buenaventura to meet the requirements of the PVSA.

[iancal]

If Canada does not open it's borders than I suspect that you will not be going.

[RuthC]

35 minutes ago, colonialinnkeeper said:

I am curious how it is then that round trip from San Diego to Hawaii and back with a stop in Ensenada, Mexico qualifies for this same port to port trip?

Passengers on the full cruise are not allowed to disembark permanently in any of the Hawaii ports. They are doing a round-trip. 

There have been one-way cruises to/from Hawaii, but the passengers (dis)embarked in Ensenada. I believe I have also seen seasonal cruises to/from Hawaii and Vancouver, but you would never see them to/from or from/to Seattle and Hawaii. 

[AtlantaCruiser72]

7 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

This is correct.  Trinidad & Tobago are not considered to be "distant" foreign ports.

That’s interesting, as geographically T&T are part of South America, and I thought any port in South America was considered “distant” for PVSA compliance. Do you know why T&T are excluded but the ABC Islands are included?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

That’s interesting, as geographically T&T are part of South America, and I thought any port in South America was considered “distant” for PVSA compliance. Do you know why T&T are excluded but the ABC Islands are included?

Actually, Trinidad and Tobago is considered a Caribbean nation (it is a member of the Commonwealth of Caribbean Nations), and while further from the US than the ABC islands, it is not considered a "distant" foreign port.  I don't know why.

[rkacruiser]

There needs to be a change in the laws, rules, regulations, whatever, as I have posted before.  These "requirements" are pre-Covid-19.  If we are entering a "new normal", than what has been "normal" in the past needs to be addressed and adjusted as needs to be.  

[chengkp75]

36 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

There needs to be a change in the laws, rules, regulations, whatever, as I have posted before.  These "requirements" are pre-Covid-19.  If we are entering a "new normal", than what has been "normal" in the past needs to be addressed and adjusted as needs to be.  

And, again, I'll say that the cruise lines have no inclination to change the PVSA, since doing so and allowing foreign flag ships to participate in coastwise trade would involve far more expense to the cruise line than any benefit to their bottom line.   This has been stated publicly by CLIA in the past.  How does the PVSA affect anything related to Covid-19, and the "new normal"?

[TexasBrit]

I was curious about a cruise I took 4 years ago.

It left Houston and called at Ft. Lauderdale to pick up additional passengers,

then went transatlantic to England, stopping at Bermuda. Passengers were allowed to

get off in both FL and Bermuda.

 

How did this comply with the PVSA regulations?

[chengkp75]

46 minutes ago, TexasBrit said:

I was curious about a cruise I took 4 years ago.

It left Houston and called at Ft. Lauderdale to pick up additional passengers,

then went transatlantic to England, stopping at Bermuda. Passengers were allowed to

get off in both FL and Bermuda.

 

How did this comply with the PVSA regulations?

Do you mean that passengers were allowed to end their cruise in FLL?  If so, that was a violation of the PVSA.  Starting in Houston and ending in Bermuda is fine, as Bermuda is a foreign port, and any cruise that starts in the US and ends in a foreign country is not subject to the PVSA.  If you mean that passengers were allowed off for a port of call, and got back on to continue the cruise, that is fine.  The cruise ended in the UK, so again, starting in the US and ending in a foreign port is not subject to PVSA.  PVSA only applies to cruises that start in one US port, and end in a different US port.

[darwinsrule]

The borders will open. . . . eventually.  Reality is the next four months are going to tough for everyone regardless of where you live.  Once (and we will get there) we have vaccines and other treatments things will start to open up. Normal however will be a long way off and April might be questionable.  What we (Canadians) are being told is expect availability of vaccines in Spring of '21.   The only way ships are getting in (to Canadian waters) are with restrictions like you are seeing in Europe, and vaccines being distributed here in large quantities.  That allows you to control outbreaks and address the public health issues involved.  Those two factors combined will allow things to get moving.  

 

 

[TexasBrit]

20 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Do you mean that passengers were allowed to end their cruise in FLL?  If so, that was a violation of the PVSA.  Starting in Houston and ending in Bermuda is fine, as Bermuda is a foreign port, and any cruise that starts in the US and ends in a foreign country is not subject to the PVSA.  If you mean that passengers were allowed off for a port of call, and got back on to continue the cruise, that is fine.  The cruise ended in the UK, so again, starting in the US and ending in a foreign port is not subject to PVSA.  PVSA only applies to cruises that start in one US port, and end in a different US port.

I don't think anyone ended the cruise at FL, as the idea was to go transatlantic. I was confused because it went between two US ports without visiting a foreign one which I had thought was not allowed. I think I understand now!

 

Thank you.

[sail7seas]

20 hours ago, Cruisin Kay D said:

What will happen if Canada doesn't open its borders in 2021 for cruises that begin or end in Quebec, Montreal, Vancouver?  And also including stops in places like Victoria, Halifax, Sydney etc?   

We are supposed to be on Zaandam mid-April for the repositioning from Ft. Lauderdale to Montreal for the Canada-New Engl sailings.    Since it is departing from Ft. Lauderdale, is it conceivable that the "foreign port" could be Bahamas or Bermuda if Canada still closed, and cruise would skip Canada cities and could end in Boston.  OR guessing HA would be likely to have to cancel us.   Anyone have any thoughts?   

 

The  New England cruise must go to Canada or I canno t imagine anyone botherin g to book it.....  not worth the effort to pack and board, IMO

 

 

PEI, Halifax,  Sydney,  Quebec city   etal   likely miss the   cruise  tourist money   they got little of this year

 

  That speaks only  re:  Atlantic Canada  ,  what  about   the    West Coast  ?

 

 

 

Edited September 8, 2020 by sail7seas

[rkacruiser]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And, again, I'll say that the cruise lines have no inclination to change the PVSA, since doing so and allowing foreign flag ships to participate in coastwise trade would involve far more expense to the cruise line than any benefit to their bottom line.   This has been stated publicly by CLIA in the past.  How does the PVSA affect anything related to Covid-19, and the "new normal"?

 

I hear you.  There is a need for some thinking "outside of the box" in my opinion.  

 

The cruise lines may, in the near future, be faced with do we want to increase business on destinations that are guests are willing--and will be accepted--to sail?  Adjust the fares accordingly as need be.  Or does the business model that we have used for decades is still valid?  

 

If the cruise lines would choose to follow a different business model, there is, of course, the need for those "regulators and lawmakers"  to change the laws, rules, and regulations for such a change to take place.  

 

I rather feel that my thoughts of are the Don Quixote type. 

[sail7seas]

😵   Ours is not to reason why.  Ours is just to do or die. 

 

 

 

Edited September 9, 2020 by sail7seas

[sfocruiser]

How About

 

• Boston
• Bar Harbor
• Day at sea
• St. Pierre and Miquelon
• Day at Sea
• Portland
• Newport
• Boston

 

[Himself]

Let us hope that the Canada ports will open up for the 2021 season.