What if Canada doesn't open its borders for cruises?

[SouthAltaCruisingFamily]

7 hours ago, JeffElizabeth said:

Any Canadians in here? Curious how the clampdown is affecting the economy.  I did see one report that Canadians generally support the measures taken to keep people safe and they have a much lower death rate than the US.  I am worried that people are putting too much faith in the vaccines coming out. I think the virus will mutate too fast to protect everyone.  And too many people are resistant to taking the vaccine. Have to think it will be a condition of employment for cruise ship employees.  Will passengers also have to show their shot records? 

 

Alberta's elementary and secondary schools have allowed both in person and online learning.  Most families have chosen the in class learning option.  Masks and other PPE are mandatory as well as extra cleaning.  So far it is working with only a few schools reporting Covid cases(which is being posted online).  Post secondary schools are mainly online except for trades, labs, and certain programs that need in person learning (like nursing).

 

Businesses are slowly opening with social distancing measures in place and other public health guidelines in place.  Indoor gatherings are limited to 50.

Masks are becoming mandatory in many cities and towns indoor spaces but not widespread throughout the whole province.  This is becoming a very divisive issue here with many on one end or the other end of the issue with not too much common middle ground. 

 

We are being encouraged to get the annual flu shot to avoid a double whammy this winter.

 

The economy is rebounding slowly as life resumes some sense of a new normalcy but tourism is still hurting tremendously.  Today, we received word that the border will remain closed for another month till October 21 (this is the sixth expansion of the closure) with rumor that it will be at least the American Thanksgiving before it opens.  A few truck drivers that do USA/Canada runs have been informed that it may be the spring before the border opens up for non essential travel [meaning - spouses that sometimes go along (and are not needed/essential) might not be able to until the spring].

 

[HappyInVan]

7 hours ago, rkacruiser said:

 

That's me as well.  50% of my physicians say:  we are dining indoors at restaurants.  (But, if an outdoor option is available, we use it.)  50% say:  no, it's too risky.  

 

 

What about social bubbles?

 

Dine-in restaurants with patios should be safe if your group only includes trusted people. Restaurants can arrange distancing in a logical manner. But, there is no safety when patrons dine with people outside their bubble.

 

Same principle applies to dining on a ship, and out on excursions. MSC seems to have the right protocols. No passengers infected on the ships yet!!

 

I have hopes that the NE can form a bubble with us, partly reopening the border. I would like to cruise again in spring.

 

[iancal]

One most recent unscientific poll by one of our major news networks put the public support for closed borders at 90 percent.  I think that the border will be closed beyond the current Oct 31 date.  

 

I would be very surprised if any cruise ships are allowed into Canadian ports before June 30, and probably not until Sept. 30 based on the predictions for an effective and available vaccine in the May/June time frame.

 

Where we live in an area of Canada there is an acceptance that the recommended safety measures are necessary.   Yesterday the claim by a city survey was that 90 percent were wearing masks in indoor public areas.   The most push back appears to be in more rural areas where there have not been the same number of covid cases. 

 

Our numbers  are going the wrong way at the moment.  Not certain is this is another wave or if people are becoming less vigilant.  The symptoms vary so much.  My cousin was on a ventilator for 20 days or so while others have experienced few challenges. 

 

One very good thing....there is a great deal of  public support for our elected officials who are taking direction from our health care professionals and scientists. 

 

Edited September 16, 2020 by iancal

[ehogan]

Here in B.C.  we are seeing an uptick in numbers which is concerning but our numbers are nowhere near U.S. numbers.  The economy is limping back with most businesses open within constraints.  Our Public Health Officer has however shut down all banquet halls and nightclubs after multiple bylaw infractions and related covid cases.  She is also asking us to limit our Bubble group to six or less.

 

I think most in B.C. are on board with border closures until  we see that covid is under control down south.  
 

Mask wearing is common here both inside and outside although many in the 20 to 29 Age group still do not get it.  Interesting that a month or so ago they represented 60% of positive covid tests.

 

Just read that the WHO is indicating that any kind of old normal will not occur till 2022.  Most depressing.  Sadly I have asked for and received a rebate on my FCD since I cant see a return to a normal kind of cruising until at least late 2022.

[Cruising-along]

1 hour ago, ehogan said:

I think most in B.C. are on board with border closures until  we see that covid is under control down south.

Maybe in B.C. but in the past week I've seen license plates from Ontario (in Yellowstone) and Alberta (here in the Seattle area). 

I'm surprised anyone wants to come here....

[Aquahound]

1 hour ago, Cruising-along said:

Maybe in B.C. but in the past week I've seen license plates from Ontario (in Yellowstone) and Alberta (here in the Seattle area). 

I'm surprised anyone wants to come here....

 

I saw a car this morning from BC.  I only took notice of the car because the idiot driver flicked a cigarette butt out the window on I5.  I noted the plate in case her butt sparked yet another wildfire.  You'd think, driving through all this smoke, she'd know better. 

 

Anyways, my point is, I'm still seeing BC plates in the Seattle area.   

Edited September 16, 2020 by Aquahound

[rkacruiser]

15 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

Dine-in restaurants with patios should be safe if your group only includes trusted people. 

 

"Trusted people"?  Surely, I would be dining with folks whom I know.  But, how am I supposed to know their recent contacts within the previous 14 days?  Can I "trust" those?  

 

While the restaurant "assures" us that their employees and the establishment itself is meeting the required guidelines, the recent report from the CDC casts doubt that those assurances.

 

The weather is becoming cooler.  Outdoor dining is going to no longer be an option.

 

Time to put another Stouffer's entree in the oven rather than choose to dining at a restaurant.  I am sorry to say.  

 

 

[Cruising-along]

18 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I saw a car this morning from BC.  I only took notice of the car because the idiot driver flicked a cigarette butt out the window on I5.  I noted the plate in case her butt sparked yet another wildfire.  You'd think, driving through all this smoke, she'd know better. 

 

Anyways, my point is, I'm still seeing BC plates in the Seattle area.   

Wow.

[kazu]

33 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

"Trusted people"?  Surely, I would be dining with folks whom I know.  But, how am I supposed to know their recent contacts within the previous 14 days?  Can I "trust" those?

 

The way it works here is that the only people we can be in close contact with (and even then we tend to physical distance as much as possible)  are the people in our “bubble”.

 

The “bubble” is very limited to a very few people and each person has to agree that their contact is limited and that they are all taking the same precautions when grocery shopping, etc.

 

So basically, you know what their recent contacts are.  No one is allowed to change who they decide to let in their bubble once it is done.

 

Maximum people for our bubble here in New Brunswick is 10 households.  That doesn’t mean you have  10 together all at once - just 10 that you can associate with “Bubble” wise.  I have a whole 4 in ours (4 couples).  We do know what they do and we know their contacts and we know how careful they are.  

We are careful but feel safe in our little “bubble”.  All of the people in my “bubble” have immune issues whether it be from cancer, heart attack, etc.  They are susceptible and neither I nor they will risk their health.  It took me a while to let them in as I didn’t want to put them at risk.

 

We don’t get together all the time but we do get together.

 

It seems to be working as long as you follow the rules.  I think most are here.

[T8NCruise]

49 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

I saw a car this morning from BC.  I only took notice of the car because the idiot driver flicked a cigarette butt out the window on I5.  I noted the plate in case her butt sparked yet another wildfire.  You'd think, driving through all this smoke, she'd know better. 

 

Anyways, my point is, I'm still seeing BC plates in the Seattle area.   

 

I find that totally unforgivable, anyone from the west coast of either the US or Canada should know better - we have enough TV ads addressing this.  I hope you reported it anyway, regardless of whether it started a fire.  It carries a hefty fine, here.
On the same topic, we seem to have a free flow, then, of vehicles from one country being in another.  I have lost count of the Texas, Oregon, and many other state licence plates in my little corner of BC - just this morning, another from Washington State.  And I definitely do not live on the route to/from Alaska.  I do know of several BC residents being stuck down in Blaine and Bellingham areas since pre-border closure because they had no idea it would last this long!  But quite happy to be staying there in the trailer parks right now, so that accounts for some of the BC licence plates.

[iancal]

We only have a few people in our ‘bubble’.  We have only done dine in once, the other times have been carry out.  Only one of us does the grocery shopping at any one time.

 

Very difficult to tell on licence plates.  A neighbour in our Calgary condo had Texas licence plates for the few years that we lived there.  Our  son had Alberta plates on his car while he was in grad school in Ontario....and still might have them!

Edited September 17, 2020 by iancal

[nw gardener]

Our local paper (Bellingham Herald) reported 2 days ago that the border closure would be extended through our Thanksgiving,  and most likely to the end of the year.  Personally I believe it will be till spring,  or a viable vaccine is in place.  Do I miss the traffic this past summer or the lines at Costco gas? No,  but I do know our county businesses miss all the tourist and cross border $$$. Do I want to cruise out of Vancouver again next  summer? Absolutely!!!  But  I do support the closure as difficult as it is - we must get serious about slowing this virus. 

[Cruising-along]

24 minutes ago, nw gardener said:

Our local paper (Bellingham Herald) reported 2 days ago that the border closure would be extended through our Thanksgiving,  and most likely to the end of the year.  Personally I believe it will be till spring,  or a viable vaccine is in place.  Do I miss the traffic this past summer or the lines at Costco gas? No,  but I do know our county businesses miss all the tourist and cross border $$$. Do I want to cruise out of Vancouver again next  summer? Absolutely!!!  But  I do support the closure as difficult as it is - we must get serious about slowing this virus. 

Ah, Bellingham, my home town.  I miss it, but not the congestion along the Guide or in Costco. 😉 Of course here we have the triple whammy of Walmart, Casino, and the outlet mall all together along I-5.   

 

I agree that the border won't be opening up this year. 

[npcl]

17 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

What about social bubbles?

 

Dine-in restaurants with patios should be safe if your group only includes trusted people. Restaurants can arrange distancing in a logical manner. But, there is no safety when patrons dine with people outside their bubble.

 

Same principle applies to dining on a ship, and out on excursions. MSC seems to have the right protocols. No passengers infected on the ships yet!!

 

I have hopes that the NE can form a bubble with us, partly reopening the border. I would like to cruise again in spring.

 

the problem is definition of trusted people. Many of the major spreading events in the us was spread between trusted people. If they do not live in the same household, they should not be eating  at the same table even outside.

[sail7seas]

1 hour ago, nw gardener said:

Our local paper (Bellingham Herald) reported 2 days ago that the border closure would be extended through our Thanksgiving,  and most likely to the end of the year.  Personally I believe it will be till spring,  or a viable vaccine is in place.  Do I miss the traffic this past summer or the lines at Costco gas? No,  but I do know our county businesses miss all the tourist and cross border $$$. Do I want to cruise out of Vancouver again next  summer? Absolutely!!!  But  I do support the closure as difficult as it is - we must get serious about slowing this virus. 

 

 

Frankly, so few people  care to  travel now, openborder? closedborder?   makes little difference to most "former"  travelers............

 

 

Some of our 'experts'  are hedging around speculating, we'll  be locked down far into the New Year...   

 

I had my seasonal flu shot this week and as soon as my doctors approve, I'LL  be eager to get vaccine to protect me from ' the plague'.

 

Given that I am among those designated 'high risk' I am extremely  careful even with which neighbors I socialize and all are very  careful  about being out of their houses.

 

 

 

 

[HappyInVan]

5 hours ago, npcl said:

the problem is definition of trusted people. Many of the major spreading events in the us was spread between trusted people. If they do not live in the same household, they should not be eating  at the same table even outside.

 

As I understand it, a social bubble is a formal understanding, about standards and inclusion/exclusion.

 

We're reaching a low point in morale after 6 months. For the sake of our mental and emotional health, we need to socialize. To be able to wander around freely.

 

That's why masks are so important. I've been wearing a mask in public since April. It's now routine, kinda like pulling on my pants in the morning.

 

“CDC chief says masks better at stopping coronavirus than a vaccine”

 

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/cdc-chief-says-masks-better-at-stopping-coronavirus-than-a-vaccine-173526486.html

 

Ideally, the vulnerable should be wearing N95 masks. Too bad that governments haven't mobilized to manufacture quality masks for everyone. Use a KN95 mask if it is available.

 

Above all, make sure that the mask has a good fit on your face. Even a 3-layer mask will be almost as effective as a 5-layer N95 if the fit is tight.

 

Be safe. Think good thoughts about yourself. Encourage others to adapt and overcome.

 

The day will come that the border reopens, and we can sail again.

 

 

[T8NCruise]

14 hours ago, sail7seas said:

 

 

Frankly, so few people  care to  travel now, openborder? closedborder?   makes little difference to most "former"  travelers............

 

 

Some of our 'experts'  are hedging around speculating, we'll  be locked down far into the New Year...   

 

I had my seasonal flu shot this week and as soon as my doctors approve, I'LL  be eager to get vaccine to protect me from ' the plague'.

 

Given that I am among those designated 'high risk' I am extremely  careful even with which neighbors I socialize and all are very  careful  about being out of their houses.

 

 

 

 

 

To your first point - no, but I think cruisers are justified in dreaming of being able to travel again!  I know I am, even though it may be unlikely I ever will again.  But I can dream.

 

BTW, that seems awfully early for a flu shot - they typically last 6 months, so hopefully it will see you all the way through flu season. 

[Cruising-along]

15 minutes ago, T8NCruise said:

BTW, that seems awfully early for a flu shot - they typically last 6 months, so hopefully it will see you all the way through flu season. 

I agree.  Whenever I've gotten my flu shot in September, I've been sick with the flu the following spring.  I read recently that it's recommended to wait until late October, especially for older folks. I know when I wait, it holds me through all of flu season.  In any case, I'll ask my doctor her opinion when I see her in a couple weeks.

[denatravels]

To skip Canada and end in Boston (starting from Ft Lauderdale) the cruise must visit a “distant” foreign port (meaning not in North America). To fulfill that requirement they would have to swing south to Aruba, Bonaire, Curaçao or Trinidad and Tobago before heading north. Those islands are considered part of South America.  All other Caribbean Islands, the Bahamas and Bermuda are in North America so do not fulfill the requirement of a “distant” foreign port. 

Is this because it’s not closed loop? Bahama cruises happen from the US all the time?


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[AtlantaCruiser72]

10 minutes ago, denatravels said:

Is this because it’s not closed loop? Bahama cruises happen from the US all the time?

Correct - Closed loop cruises (those starting and ending in the same US port) only need stop at least at one non-US port.  Cruises between 2 different US ports (Ft. Lauderdale to San Diego for example) require the vessel to visit a "distant" Foreign port.  "Distant" ports would be those on the South American continent (Cartegena Columbia for example), or "distant" Caribbean islands classified by the US government as part of South America (Aruba, Bonaire, Curacao).  It's two set of requirements for two different types of sailings, and it's confusing!

[rkacruiser]

21 hours ago, kazu said:

 

The way it works here is that the only people we can be in close contact with (and even then we tend to physical distance as much as possible)  are the people in our “bubble”.

 

The “bubble” is very limited to a very few people and each person has to agree that their contact is limited and that they are all taking the same precautions when grocery shopping, etc.

 

So basically, you know what their recent contacts are.  No one is allowed to change who they decide to let in their bubble once it is done.

 

Maximum people for our bubble here in New Brunswick is 10 households.  That doesn’t mean you have  10 together all at once - just 10 that you can associate with “Bubble” wise.  I have a whole 4 in ours (4 couples).  We do know what they do and we know their contacts and we know how careful they are.  

We are careful but feel safe in our little “bubble”.  All of the people in my “bubble” have immune issues whether it be from cancer, heart attack, etc.  They are susceptible and neither I nor they will risk their health.  It took me a while to let them in as I didn’t want to put them at risk.

 

We don’t get together all the time but we do get together.

 

It seems to be working as long as you follow the rules.  I think most are here.

 

kazu,

 

Thank you for an excellent description of what your husband and you are doing.  I kind of have my own "bubble" as well.  

[kangforpres]

Maybe they will let ships dock, charge them fees but not let anyone disembark? That way the arcane US cruise laws would be satisfied. I'm on a September RT Alaska (Vancouver)  so I'm hoping by June Canada starts letting us big, bad, ill mannered,  diseased Americans back in. 

Edited September 17, 2020 by kangforpres

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

Maybe they will let ships dock, charge them fees but not let anyone disembark? That way the arcane US cruise laws would be satisfied. I'm on a September RT Alaska (Vancouver)  so I'm hoping by June Canada starts letting us big, bad, ill mannered,  diseased Americans back in. 

Nope.  If pax are not allowed ashore, then it becomes a "technical" port stop, and does not satisfy the PVSA.

[rkacruiser]

1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

The CDC Director walked back his original statements and made clarifying statements. 

 

An Official should not make statements that then need to be "walked back".  Having to make "clarifying statements" following what one said does NOT inspire confidence that you know what you are talking about.

 

1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

1 hour ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

He said masks are the best defense now, but when the vaccine comes available, it is what will get people back to normal life. 

 

I have not heard that nor read that statement in a variety of media in the past 24 hours.  

 

As a scientifically educated person, I have NO faith in what I hear coming from the mouths of the leadership of HHS, the FDA, or the CDC.  There is "rot" that has infected those agencies that need to be excised.  

[bennybear]

First, because I’m Canadian I will apologize for the moron who tossed his butt.   Inexcusable, the world is their ashtray!  It makes me very sad and angry. 

I have seen the  insanity at the Bellingham Costco,  as I have family in the Seattle area.  No fun.   

But Canadians can return home, they will have to quarantine for 14 days.  And there is some travel, an American friend who lives in Canada had to return to the US when her mom was in an accident.   But upon return there was a very strictly enforced quarantine. 

 

Let’s hope we can all get a handle on this so we can return to a more normal world.