APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?

[Pinboy]

This whole idea is excellent , however, there is one " obstacle " ----- PEOPLE's behavior .

 

 

[Duanerice1]

Agree but this is also the reason I won't cruise again for a while  And it's not that I am against wearing a mask as I do now but I don't want to go on a cruise and have to wear a mask or social distance from others.  For me it would just take the fun out of it.  

 

I'll wait until a vaccine is integrated into the population.  I believe that once we get a proven vaccine then most of the precautions will be gone.   People will put this behind them and we will start living our 'normal' lives again.  Just human nature.

 

Bless all those that sail during these times.  Have fun and keep my cabin warm for me- lol

 

 

[MisterMet]

1 hour ago, riredsox said:

As The Beach Boys like to say ‘Wouldn’t It Be Nice’.  

Lol 😆 

[NonnaTLC]

 

"I still think the mask wearing will be somewhat unobtainable to enforce. How do you deal with the person who wears the mask around their chin all day holding a glass in their hand who claims they just pulled it down for a minute to take a drink. How are you going to define the length of time it's reasonable to pull it down for food/drink."

 

I think the answer to that is what is allowed where I live.  If you are not seated at a table, you must wear a mask.  There is no ambulating with drink in hand.  If you are in a cocktail lounge or bar, you must be seated to be sipping.  If you are ferrying a drink or drinks back to your table, mask must be on.  

 

I absolutely agree with @Spif Barwunkel

If we are to cruise again, we must all abide the rules, which need to be absolutely clear at the onset.

 

[Covepointcruiser]

Disneyworld in Florida has the same rule about drinking and eating.   You must be seated to do either and this is the only times masks can be lowered.   They had a problem initially with folks walking with their masks off stating they were drinking or eating.   No longer allowed.   Once they start cruising I believe they will have the same rules.

[sanger727]

1 hour ago, NonnaTLC said:

 

"I still think the mask wearing will be somewhat unobtainable to enforce. How do you deal with the person who wears the mask around their chin all day holding a glass in their hand who claims they just pulled it down for a minute to take a drink. How are you going to define the length of time it's reasonable to pull it down for food/drink."

 

I think the answer to that is what is allowed where I live.  If you are not seated at a table, you must wear a mask.  There is no ambulating with drink in hand.  If you are in a cocktail lounge or bar, you must be seated to be sipping.  If you are ferrying a drink or drinks back to your table, mask must be on.  

 

I absolutely agree with @Spif Barwunkel

If we are to cruise again, we must all abide the rules, which need to be absolutely clear at the onset.

 

that would probably work. Not quite sure how I would work with that. I am someone who carries a water bottle with me literally EVERYWHERE. Typically sipping as I walk around. Guess I would have to run in somewhere  and grab a seat every so often so I could take sip!

[Spif Barwunkel]

6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sounds great to us, with one caveat. If you choose not to sign the form at either embarkation or anytime prior to that point after final payment, you will receive a full refund in FCC. 

For all cruises booked prior to the protocol reveal and the date the guidelines become effective, yes. After directives are in place and everyone knows what's happening...perhaps you ought to reconsider cruising for awhile.

[Spif Barwunkel]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 

This is the only part I think it unnecessary.  I think the cruise lines should be very upfront and forward with the information for their current and future customers but randomly media dissemination isn't necessary. If someone wants to cruise they will find out when they a. contact a TA or b. go to the website and again before they make final payment. 

 

I still think the mask wearing will be somewhat unobtainable to enforce. How do you deal with the person who wears the mask around their chin all day holding a glass in their hand who claims they just pulled it down for a minute to take a drink. How are you going to define the length of time it's reasonable to pull it down for food/drink. 

I did not mean to imply a media blitz through all media sources. Only through cruise related media whose outreach would serve to inform the millions of cruisers who do not visit Cruise Critic.

[Spif Barwunkel]

5 hours ago, mnocket said:

Sounds nice and would be effective if the "rules" were black & white.  Unfortunately, rules like "face coverings must be worn in areas where social distancing isn't possible"  leave a lot of room for personal judgement - and different people will make different judgments.  

 

Heck, even the NFL can't seem to get compliance from head coaches to wear face masks.  After Sunday's games, where many coaches were caught on camera with their masks pulled down, the NFL threatened to discipline coaches who didn't wear their face masks.  Fast forward to Monday Night Football and we see head coaches continue to flaunt the mask requirement.  Most notably we see coaches pulling their masks down whenever they speak - precisely the time it's most important to be wearing a mask.

It's up to those making the decisions to make it black and white. There should be no misunderstanding here, not the slightest bit. Full face covering including the nose and mouth. Where and when, TBD. Non-compliance here could result in some confinement time. Or worse.

[Spif Barwunkel]

4 hours ago, Ashland said:

I would say that you shouldn't have to print out all the documents...just the one page or just sign the form at checkin much like the health questioner you used to have to fill out....What ever happened to those anyway?

Correct. I only print pages that I feel necessary. Most certainly, that compliance signature form will be very necessary.

[NMTraveller]

4 hours ago, Pinboy said:

This whole idea is excellent , however, there is one " obstacle " ----- PEOPLE's behavior .

 

 

This.  We have had a mask law since May.  However there is only about a 70% compliance rate.  People will pull the masks down,  wear masks that are ineffective, pull them down while speaking (which is about 70% of the time).  The confrontations over masks gets ugly, politcal talk ensues and dinner is somewhat of a disappointment.  I am skeptical that X will pull the 30% non compliers off of the ship.  

Edited September 16, 2020 by NMTraveller

[Spif Barwunkel]

3 hours ago, Pinboy said:

This whole idea is excellent , however, there is one " obstacle " ----- PEOPLE's behavior .

 

 

Once everything is properly in place and enforced, perhaps that particular behavior will quickly disappear

[K.T.B.]

6 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Sounds great to us, with one caveat. If you choose not to sign the form at either embarkation or anytime prior to that point after final payment, you will receive a full refund in FCC. 

 

I'd say 75% FCC, especially if it's unambiguous.

 

But I wholeheartedly agree with what the OP said!

[Ken the cruiser]

14 minutes ago, Spif Barwunkel said:

For all cruises booked prior to the protocol reveal and the date the guidelines become effective, yes. After directives are in place and everyone knows what's happening...perhaps you ought to reconsider cruising for awhile.

Just to be clear, we have no issues with any rules the cruise lines develop to make us safer. No issues what so ever. 

[wrk2cruise]

1 minute ago, NMTraveller said:

 I am skeptical that X will pull the 30% non compliers off of the ship.

 

Then they will risk losing the 70% including myself.   If a company is selling me an environment where I've determined I would feel safe and don't deliver what was specified it will be the last time and I would address with senior officers onboard immediately.   That's why I agree with others that the conditions to restart must be clearly communicated in details where people can make a decision to accept or not.   I can't make a final payment on any of my upcoming cruises until I see these details for Celebrity.   If you can't accept their terms then sorry and hope you find a line where you will be happy.

[Spif Barwunkel]

3 hours ago, Duanerice1 said:

Agree but this is also the reason I won't cruise again for a while  And it's not that I am against wearing a mask as I do now but I don't want to go on a cruise and have to wear a mask or social distance from others.  For me it would just take the fun out of it.  

 

I'll wait until a vaccine is integrated into the population.  I believe that once we get a proven vaccine then most of the precautions will be gone.   People will put this behind them and we will start living our 'normal' lives again.  Just human nature.

 

Bless all those that sail during these times.  Have fun and keep my cabin warm for me- lol

 

 

I will say that once a vaccine is developed and approved for the mass market, cruising restrictions will remain in place for some time. Whether or not you have gotten vaccinated is not a determining factor in your exemption.

 

Thank you for your blessings and we wish you all that is good. 

[NMTraveller]

4 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

Then they will risk losing the 70% including myself.   If a company is selling me an environment where I've determined I would feel safe and don't deliver what was specified it will be the last time and I would address with senior officers onboard immediately.   That's why I agree with others that the conditions to restart must be clearly communicated in details where people can make a decision to accept or not.   I can't make a final payment on any of my upcoming cruises until I see these details for Celebrity.   If you can't accept their terms then sorry and hope you find a line where you will be happy.

Going to a restaurant is also optional.  Yet people try to skirt the rules even though they know the rules.

 

I have no issues with the rules.  I just have not seen a single state in the USA actually enforce the rules with success.

Edited September 16, 2020 by NMTraveller

[MamaFej]

7 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

This.  We have had a mask law since May.  However there is only about a 70% compliance rate.  People will pull the masks down,  wear masks that are ineffective, pull them down while speaking (which is about 70% of the time).  The confrontations over masks gets ugly, politcal talk ensues and dinner is somewhat of a disaapointment.  I am skeptical that X will pull the 30% non compliers off of the ship.  

I would hope that onboard compliance would be higher, especially if the rules are very clearly set forth from before the booking process, all the way through disembarkation. On land, in the USA, there are very few places where there is actually a monetary consequence for flouting masks regulations. If people have to go through the processes suggested, and have thousands of dollars on the line, they might be more inclined to follow the rules. More to the point, those who refuse to follow the regulations, or who choose to ignore that the nose is part of the respiratory system, would likely self-select themselves out of cruising. 

[NMTraveller]

18 minutes ago, MamaFej said:

I would hope that onboard compliance would be higher, especially if the rules are very clearly set forth from before the booking process, all the way through disembarkation. On land, in the USA, there are very few places where there is actually a monetary consequence for flouting masks regulations. If people have to go through the processes suggested, and have thousands of dollars on the line, they might be more inclined to follow the rules. More to the point, those who refuse to follow the regulations, or who choose to ignore that the nose is part of the respiratory system, would likely self-select themselves out of cruising. 

We have a $100 fine for not wearing a mask.  That seems to be ineffective.  Perhaps losing a cruise fare will be enough.

 

My betting money is on people pulling their masks down during the show or pulling their mask down low on the nose or perhaps wearing a scarf if allowed.  How do you do mask enforcement during the show in the dark?  A mask low on the nose would not be a reason for ejection as they could claim that it fell down.

Edited September 16, 2020 by NMTraveller

[K.T.B.]

4 hours ago, Pinboy said:

This whole idea is excellent , however, there is one " obstacle " ----- PEOPLE's behavior .

 

 

 

When people are being kicked off ships and left behind at ports, people will start following the rules.

 

If they're "locked away" in their cabin for the remainder of the cruise, people will start following the rules.

 

If you hit them in the pocketbook, people will start following the rules.

 

The cruise lines will need to be extremely tough of their passengers.  If they catch you breaking a rule, you get one more chance.  They take your info by scanning your card and if anyone else in your group, whether it's one other or 10 other people, breaks the rules, everyone suffers.  Everyone is either forced to remain in their cabins or they're booted from the ship.

 

However, I can see the final night of cruises being a "free for all" and obstinate people giving the middle finger to the rules.  So those people should be met at the port and the cruise line will need to determine what penalty can be assessed then.

[MamaFej]

13 minutes ago, K.T.B. said:

However, I can see the final night of cruises being a "free for all" and obstinate people giving the middle finger to the rules.  So those people should be met at the port and the cruise line will need to determine what penalty can be assessed then.

A lifetime ban from cruising seems in order. CLIA could certainly maintain a list, they might even share it with non-members. 

[jelayne]

I think if, from embarkation, those that refuse to follow the rules are disembarked after a warning ( really how many times have you gotten out of your car and headed to a store or restaurant and realized you didn’t have your mask, for me about once a week)  then very quickly people will comply.  
I have sailed on some cruise lines where flaunting the rules , being drunk and obnoxious is not uncommon but IME that’s not what what we have encountered on X.  
I believe if you communicate what is required, treat passengers as adults who want to cruise, and enforce the rules for those who believe they don’t apply to them the word will spread quickly and The jerks will quickly be gone.  

[jelayne]

2 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

We have a $100 fine for not wearing a mask.  That seems to be ineffective.  Perhaps losing a cruise fare will be enough.

 

My betting money is on people pulling their masks down during the show or pulling their mask down low on the nose or perhaps wearing a scarf if allowed.  How do you do mask enforcement during the show in the dark?  A mask low on the nose would not be a reason for ejection as they could claim that it fell down.

If the seating in the show is spaced so that social distancing is  accomplished,  which I think will happen, then not wearing a mask while seated in the theater would be no different than not wearing a mask while seated at your table in the MDR.

[mnocket]

4 hours ago, NMTraveller said:

My betting money is on people pulling their masks down during the show

If I recall the recent trip report from a MSC sailing, masks were required walking to your seat in the theater, but once seated masks could be removed.  There was social distancing in the theater.

 

These kind of details are not available prior to boarding (until we get trip reports), so for many people won't know the specific requirements until they are on board.

[mnocket]

4 hours ago, K.T.B. said:

When people are being kicked off ships and left behind at ports, people will start following the rules.

 

You would think so, but I'm amazed that I still read about people getting thrown off airplanes for  refusing to wear a mask.