APPROPRIATE ACTIONS OR EXTREME MEASURES?

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, mnocket said:

 

You will probably be interested in this post from @petra75 who just completed a cruise on MSC.

 

Sounds like mask compliance may not be a good as you imagine.

 

Sad, but hopefully the very stringent testing that MSC is doing will prevent any spread....to my knowledge there have been no reported cases coming from any of the 4 or 5 sailings they have had so far.  Fingers crossed it continues that way.

[pumpkin 11]

2 hours ago, Life Buoy said:

Maybe you'll change your tune if a loved one is part of your .03% death rate? We just buried a family member last Sunday! Two friends, who thought that Covid 19 was a hoax now have it and they have changed their attitude.

If this thread seems personal to me, it is. You never know when you might need someone to care about your health or safety.

 

Yeah let’s just keep focusing on the hardest cases, because that will be best for the population at large right?

[pumpkin 11]

Everything objective about this pandemic is positive week over week, it doesn’t seem to be translating to any change in public health policy... remember two weeks to flatten the curve?

[NMTraveller]

2 hours ago, Fouremco said:

Thanks for the link, as that was an interesting first-hand review of the implementation of the MSC protocols. While she did mention this in one post as an occasional problem, there were other posts where she commented favourably about crew members asking passengers to wear their masks properly. To be fair, though, the single post where she commented on crew members at times not correcting passengers was a summary of the cruise and starts:

 

So, to summarise our first experience of a cruise during Covid19 pandemic: 

did we liked it? Yes

Will we do it again? Definitely!

 

In the meantime let's complain, just a little though...

 

So while she noted the occasional looking the other way, she didn't make a big issue of it and it certainly wasn't enough for her to not want to cruise with MSC again.

 

That said, the wording in my earlier post could have been better had I added something like "In the majority of cases,  I doubt very much that crew members will look the other way when it comes to enforcing new health and safety protocols."

 

 

"In the meantime let's complain, just a little though!

We find that MSC health security stategy, in theory, is well done, the problem, as often, is how the rules are enforced. We saw many people everywhere going around with masks not properly worn or not worn at all, sometimes passing by an officer or supervisor meant you were asked to remedy that situation but we saw many times that be ignored by them."

 

Requote:  "Many people everywhere going around with masks not properly worn or not worn at all."

[dogs4fun]

30 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

We saw many people everywhere going around with masks not properly worn or not worn at all

Hmmmm .... not good.

[Pinboy]

4 hours ago, Fouremco said:

I doubt very much that crew members will look the other way when it comes to enforcing new health and safety protocols."

I think your Ottawa Senatsnores will have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup in 2021 than Staff members enforcing rules.

Theoretically it sounds good , but, practically I doubt it will happen and after reading some of the posters " attitudes "  I can imagine lots of unpleasant encounters. 

 

 

[npcl]

On 9/15/2020 at 11:02 AM, marieps said:

If the rules are clear and unambiguous, I'm with you.  It would have been nice to have rules posted before final payment, but until CDC actually publishes that was clearly too much to ask for.  Sadly, there will be those who attempt to end-around.  There always are.

the CDC will not publish rules for cruise ships. they will identify areas that the cruise line plans need to address. it is up to the  cruise lines to develop their plans. The CDC will then review those plans and either approve or send back for additional changes.

[npcl]

8 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

 

Sad, but hopefully the very stringent testing that MSC is doing will prevent any spread....to my knowledge there have been no reported cases coming from any of the 4 or 5 sailings they have had so far.  Fingers crossed it continues that way.

considering the new case counts in Italy it is unlikely anyone infected has actually made it on board. the testing improves the odds even more.

 

For the US to be at the same level, adjusting for population the US would need to be around 5000 new cases per day. quite a distance lower from where we are at now

[sanger727]

18 hours ago, pumpkin 11 said:

People walking around smoking cigarettes and holding their McDonalds bag yelling at me saying I’m putting their life at risk because I’m not wearing a mask for a disease that has .03% death rate.... yeah okay dude. Pretty sure X will take our money with or without your criteria.

 

I believe you meant to say 3%, not .03%. Based on country it's been ranging from 1.6%-10.6%; but no one is reporting sub 1% rates. Also, 3% of the US population is still almost 10 million people. So that is not an insignificant number...

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

Edited September 17, 2020 by sanger727

[Bo1953]

13 hours ago, Pinboy said:

I think your Ottawa Senatsnores will have a better chance of winning the Stanley Cup in 2021 than Staff members enforcing rules.

Theoretically it sounds good , but, practically I doubt it will happen and after reading some of the posters " attitudes "  I can imagine lots of unpleasant encounters.

For me, those encounters will be very pleasant or at least for me... LOL

 

Thanks Sheriff Pinboy from your Deputy... then again as Bob Marley sings "I shot the sheriff, But I didn't shoot no deputy, oh no! Oh!"

 

Which means you may not be safe after all, when I get finished with the offending parties ... Bob Marley told them to do it...

 

bon voyage

[Bo1953]

23 minutes ago, sanger727 said:

 

I believe you meant to say 3%, not .03%. Based on country it's been ranging from 1.6%-10.6%; but no one is reporting sub 1% rates. Also, 3% of the US population is still almost 10 million people. So that is not an insignificant number...

 

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

s7 - what is the reason you are trying to make sense from no sense? LOL

 

In health and bon voyage

[Bo1953]

23 hours ago, Pinboy said:

That is the theme of your thread and the intention is excellent.

IMO--- I doubt " everything will be in place " , loopholes will be challenged, and " enforced " will not happen from Staff who don't want to get involved for fear of their job being affected.  

What will happen is uncomfortable " situations " everyday, all day, everywhere on the ship, which is the reason we will not cruise until " fun " is brought back to the Industry. 

p - I think crew will want to enforce the rules or request help from a supervisor or officer as their jobs will really be on the line if the cruise line shuts down again...

 

In health and bon voyage

[Iamcruzin]

On 9/15/2020 at 3:20 PM, sanger727 said:

 

This is the only part I think it unnecessary.  I think the cruise lines should be very upfront and forward with the information for their current and future customers but randomly media dissemination isn't necessary. If someone wants to cruise they will find out when they a. contact a TA or b. go to the website and again before they make final payment. 

 

I still think the mask wearing will be somewhat unobtainable to enforce. How do you deal with the person who wears the mask around their chin all day holding a glass in their hand who claims they just pulled it down for a minute to take a drink. How are you going to define the length of time it's reasonable to pull it down for food/drink. 

They will  do as the restaurants are doing now. You can only drink and eat while sitting. No walking around with a drink in hand. Can't sit at bars to drink. The reason that some states have seen a rise in Covid is because in bars people were too close, not wearing masks and walking about while drinking.  I can imagine that the buffet will be crowded all day with no place to sit as people will just be hanging out there. 

[Pinboy]

43 minutes ago, Bo1953 said:

Thanks Sheriff Pinboy from your Deputy

p - I think crew will want to enforce the rules or request help from a supervisor or officer as their jobs will really be on the line if the cruise line shuts down again...

LOL--- That's a " Good One " ---

As my Deputy  ( ??? ) , please report back after your next cruise regarding Staff enforcement. 

The Sheriff is a wimp and will not cruise until cruising is " fun " again .

He will stay home and freeze his " buns off " instead of fighting with the few " entitled idiots " on a cruise.

 

 

 

 

[marieps]

10 hours ago, npcl said:

the CDC will not publish rules for cruise ships. they will identify areas that the cruise line plans need to address. it is up to the  cruise lines to develop their plans. The CDC will then review those plans and either approve or send back for additional changes.

You must have misunderstood my original post.  I meant it would be nice for the cruise lines to have posted rules before final payment.  I only said the CDC will publish.  I didn't say they would publish rules.  BTW, a no sail order is a rule, published in the Federal Register and elsewhere.

[npcl]

4 hours ago, marieps said:

You must have misunderstood my original post.  I meant it would be nice for the cruise lines to have posted rules before final payment.  I only said the CDC will publish.  I didn't say they would publish rules.  BTW, a no sail order is a rule, published in the Federal Register and elsewhere.

i clearly understood what you wrote. your language "it would be nice to know the rules before final payment, but until the CDC publishes ..."

 

so you may not have written what you meant, but as I said the CDC will not be publishing the rule that each cruise line will use. it would be nice if the cruise lines actually developed and submitted their plans so they could get approved before final payment would be more accurate.

[Life Buoy]

RCL and NCL have formed a joint panel headed by former Governor Mike Leavitt and Dr. Scott Gottlieb to recommend protocols when they start to cruise. Hopefully these will be released in enough time prior to the resumption of operations so that passengers can make an informed decision.

[Gracie115]

Hopeful news??!!😀

 

Florida Senators Rubio & Scott have introduced a bill to get cruises sailing again. There is more detail on the blog link but it wouldn't post here.  

 

 

 

Senators Rick Scott and Marco Rubio announced new legislation known as the Set Sail Safely Act.

The bill creates a Maritime Task Force focused on the health, safety, security, & logistical changes to allow cruise lines & ports to resume operations. 

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Gracie115

[Orator]

18 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

Hopeful news??!!😀

 

Florida Senators Rubio & Scott have introduced a bill to get cruises sailing again. There is more detail on the blog link but it wouldn't post here.  

 

 

 

Senators Rick Scott and Marco Rubio announced new legislation known as the Set Sail Safely Act.

The bill creates a Maritime Task Force focused on the health, safety, security, & logistical changes to allow cruise lines & ports to resume operations.

 

 

Edited September 17, 2020 by Orator

[Orator]

I would rate the chances for passage higher if they had co sponsors from the other side of the aisle and from places other than Florida.

[Ken the cruiser]

54 minutes ago, Gracie115 said:

Hopeful news??!!😀

 

Florida Senators Rubio & Scott have introduced a bill to get cruises sailing again. There is more detail on the blog link but it wouldn't post here.  

 

Senators Rick Scott and Marco Rubio announced new legislation known as the Set Sail Safely Act.

 

The bill creates a Maritime Task Force focused on the health, safety, security, & logistical changes to allow cruise lines & ports to resume operations. 

Is this an article similar to what you are referring?

 

https://cruiseradio.net/set-sail-safely-act-introduced-to-reopen-cruise-industry/

Edited September 17, 2020 by Ken the cruiser

[Gracie115]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Is this an article similar to what you are referring?

 

https://cruiseradio.net/set-sail-safely-act-introduced-to-reopen-cruise-industry/

Yes it is, thanks

[Spif Barwunkel]

I certainly think it would be worthwhile if several cruise passengers were invited to sit in on the discussions and have input. Don't know how you would determine who they should be, but the several millions of cruise passengers certainly deserve representation. If we've got to do it then we need to have some say-so as to what's expected and how it will be enforced. 

 

Obviously, the most difficult issue is the wearing or not of face coverings. As I see it, optional is not an option. It is either no one wears them or everyone covers up. If the latter is the decision, there must be strict adherence, enforcement and consequences. We really don't have any do-overs here. If cruising is to once again become a viable and successful vacation choice, then cool heads must prevail and logical choices - even if unpopular - must be made. It is then up to us to stay or go. 

[phoenix_dream]

On 9/15/2020 at 1:49 PM, Ken the cruiser said:

Sounds great to us, with one caveat. If you choose not to sign the form at either embarkation or anytime prior to that point after final payment, you will receive a full refund in FCC. 

If (a big if) you knew these rules when you booked, too bad for you. If not, I agree.

[phoenix_dream]

6 hours ago, Orator said:

I would rate the chances for passage higher if they had co sponsors from the other side of the aisle and from places other than Florida.

Definitely. These days, the other side (and this is true on both sides unfortunately) will decide to vehemently disagree with anything the other side does, regardless of its merit.  Does not bode well for cruising (or our country)