Healthy Sail Panel Recommendations Released

[marienbad]

To complicate things further USAtoday just reported 

 

On Friday, the CDC posted an update on its website saying six feet may not be sufficient to keep people safe and that ventilation was key to easing transmission indoors. That determination could be crucial for schools where desks are now set up six feet apart. Offices, restaurants and even church services also could be affected by the change.

[mrlevin]

15 minutes ago, marienbad said:

From the point of view of protecting the “bubble” false positives are ok, but false negatives are not. No question there are problems with all of this, but if cruising is to resume in this terrible time of Covid the cruise lines “should” err on the side of safety imho.

 

False positive much worse than false negative.  If I get a false positive my trip (for me and my traveling companions) is over.  If someone gets onboard with a false negative there is some probability I will get sick; that probability is low given all the social distancing requirements.

[marienbad]

2 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

False positive much worse than false negative.  If I get a false positive my trip (for me and my traveling companions) is over.  If someone gets onboard with a false negative there is some probability I will get sick; that probability is low given all the social distancing requirements.

 

[d9704011]

2 minutes ago, mrlevin said:

 

False positive much worse than false negative.  If I get a false positive my trip (for me and my traveling companions) is over.  If someone gets onboard with a false negative there is some probability I will get sick; that probability is low given all the social distancing requirements.

As long as it’s only someone else I guess it works for you.

[marienbad]

From the individuals point of view I understand your point, but from protecting the “bubble” I don’t.

[marienbad]

1 minute ago, d9704011 said:

As long as it’s only someone else I guess it works for you.

 

[marienbad]

But it might be me, and I would understand the need to protect others.

[Pcardad]

27 minutes ago, marienbad said:

To complicate things further USAtoday just reported 

 

On Friday, the CDC posted an update on its website saying six feet may not be sufficient to keep people safe and that ventilation was key to easing transmission indoors. That determination could be crucial for schools where desks are now set up six feet apart. Offices, restaurants and even church services also could be affected by the change.

 

CDC says posted in error

 

https://news.trust.org/item/20200921153613-rrsjj

[marienbad]

1 minute ago, Pcardad said:

 

CDC says posted in error

 

https://news.trust.org/item/20200921153613-rrsjj

 

[marienbad]

I just heard that. Apparently the debate continues as to how much disease can be caused by fine droplets in the air. From the report I heard the error was premature release of a draft that has not been fully reviewed or agreed to.

[CBWIR]

"The Panel was charged.....to recommend" Quote from  the report.  If asked for a recommendation, I would never use the terms you shall or will. Should sounds fine to me for recommendations. But I usually try to be polite. Full disclosure --I am not an attorney.

[Got2Cruise]

2 hours ago, marienbad said:

I just heard that. Apparently the debate continues as to how much disease can be caused by fine droplets in the air. From the report I heard the error was premature release of a draft that has not been fully reviewed or agreed to.

It is only common sense that the virus can be caused by fine droplets in the air. That’s why outside is safer than inside. 

[rallydave]

14 minutes ago, CBWIR said:

"The Panel was charged.....to recommend" Quote from  the report.  If asked for a recommendation, I would never use the terms you shall or will. Should sounds fine to me for recommendations. But I usually try to be polite. Full disclosure --I am not an attorney.

 

14 minutes ago, CBWIR said:

"The Panel was charged.....to recommend" Quote from  the report.  If asked for a recommendation, I would never use the terms you shall or will. Should sounds fine to me for recommendations. But I usually try to be polite. Full disclosure --I am not an attorney.

Understand your point and yes, they are providing these as recommendations but would expect some differentiation between those that would be required and those that are recommendations that would be "nice to have".  Listing all as should's puts every one in the same category and doubt all are required in order to safely sail.

 

Full disclosure, I too am not an attorney but, did spend many years writing high dollar Contracts with Statement of Works that live or die on using the correct terminology.   

[Got2Cruise]

3 hours ago, marienbad said:

 

 

3 hours ago, mrlevin said:

 

False positive much worse than false negative.  If I get a false positive my trip (for me and my traveling companions) is over.  If someone gets onboard with a false negative there is some probability I will get sick; that probability is low given all the social distancing requirements.

The molecular test is proven to return less than 5% false positives. One needs to protect themselves with insurance to recoup the cost of testing positive before the cruise. As adults I think we are all capable of getting over disappointment. 

[CBWIR]

15 minutes ago, rallydave said:

 

Understand your point and yes, they are providing these as recommendations but would expect some differentiation between those that would be required and those that are recommendations that would be "nice to have".  Listing all as should's puts every one in the same category and doubt all are required in order to safely sail.

 

Full disclosure, I too am not an attorney but, did spend many years writing high dollar Contracts with Statement of Works that live or die on using the correct terminology.   

Doubt that any of the cruise lines would sail without following all of the recommendations. Perhaps when they issue the new protocols, they will use the terms shall and will.

[mrlevin]

26 minutes ago, Got2Cruise said:

 

The molecular test is proven to return less than 5% false positives. One needs to protect themselves with insurance to recoup the cost of testing positive before the cruise. As adults I think we are all capable of getting over disappointment. 

 

Five Percent is a gigantic false positive rate.  One in twenty rejected for no reason at all.  Forget insurance; what about people that work and get just that one vacation a year.  

[Pcardad]

Can you imagine the mask police complaining someone had their mask off for too long to have a sip of their drink?

[Wendy The Wanderer]

2 minutes ago, Pcardad said:

Can you imagine the mask police complaining someone had their mask off for too long to have a sip of their drink?

 

I presume once you sit down to eat or drink you can relinquish the mask unless you stand up to go somewhere.  That's the way it works here in bars/restaurants.  Mask police--pretty perjorative term.

[Pcardad]

3 minutes ago, Wendy The Wanderer said:

 

I presume once you sit down to eat or drink you can relinquish the mask unless you stand up to go somewhere.  That's the way it works here in bars/restaurants.  Mask police--pretty perjorative term.

 

If you think Mask Police is pejorative, I doubt you would approve of my sense of humor. 

[cwn]

From the full on fist fights that are happening in some places, the mask police are alive and well!

[Pcardad]

If I get onboard, I do so in 100% agreement with the ship's rules and I will comply.

 

However, I do not agree to allow passengers to enforce their interpretation of those rules on me.

[Wendy The Wanderer]

Oh I agree.  The rules will have to be very exact and explicit.  And they will have to be enforced, evenly and as completely as possible.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Wendy The Wanderer

[loriva]

Recommendations 55-58 on destination planning and itineraries also struck me.  Regent does not have many itineraries--outside of the Caribbean--that fit the parameters of visiting only private islands or under 10 days.  Perhaps we'll see some updated itineraries after the CDC makes its announcement about the "no-sail" order, in line with Frank Del Rio's statements about staggered start-up of operations within 30 days of being allowed to return to sailing.

[Pcardad]

Senior crew will get notice at least 30 days out...

[Dolebludger]

All these rules appear appropriate for pre-vaccine cruising. However, I don’t think I want to spend $thousands to be subject to them for a week or more. Reading posts above, it’s clear that many others feel the same.