New health guidelines for the future

[Aus Traveller]

23 hours ago, ksheehan16 said:

What do you propose? Everybody stay away from everybody else from now on. All for a virus that has a death rate not much different that the annual flu( for 20 and under much less affected than the annual flu). And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

COVID is more infectious than the annual flu, and it also has a higher death rate. It kills not only older people: some younger people have also died. A major problem with COVID is the fair proportion of people who supposedly recover, but are left with permanent damage to some of their organs. They are partially disabled and may be for life.

[PurpleHays]

On 11/8/2020 at 9:57 PM, ksheehan16 said:

 And, there are many studies released since the 1950's that indicate masks are of little use. 

So, the next time you or a family member have a surgical procedure done, please tell the operating room staff that they don't have to wear a mask. 🙄 Go on, I dare you!

 

Meanwhile, I'll keep wearing mine, just like I have for 30+ years so that I don't pass any thing on to the patients I take care of. Or, people I don't know in public spaces. Because that's what caring people do.

[Lucky TGO]

5 minutes ago, PurpleHays said:

So, the next time you or a family member have a surgical procedure done, please tell the operating room staff that they don't have to wear a mask. 🙄 Go on, I dare you!

 

Meanwhile, I'll keep wearing mine, just like I have for 30+ years so that I don't pass any thing on to the patients I take care of. Or, people I don't know in public spaces. Because that's what caring people do.

I totally agree with you.😷😷😷😷

Tony

[NSWP]

1 hour ago, Aus Traveller said:

For a cruise in mid 2022, vaccination is the answer, not limited capacity. 🙂

Fingers crossed for you.

[NSWP]

1 hour ago, Lucky TGO said:

I totally agree with you.😷😷😷😷

Tony

I agree too Tony, with the massive inflation of positive covid cases and deaths in USA and UK/Europe, Mask wearing in public should be mandatory and enforced like it was in the State of Victoria, Australia. They stopped the spread, it is written.  Civil rights don't come into this.

Edited November 10, 2020 by NSWP

[BirdTravels]

2 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

For a cruise in mid 2022, vaccination is the answer, not limited capacity. 🙂

But since cruise passengers come from around the world, the answer that requires you to vaccinate the world's population (or at least cruising population) seems unachievable in the next few years. So what else are you going to do to minimize the spread on a ship. 

[Aus Traveller]

21 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

But since cruise passengers come from around the world, the answer that requires you to vaccinate the world's population (or at least cruising population) seems unachievable in the next few years. So what else are you going to do to minimize the spread on a ship. 

I suggest that maybe only people who could prove that they were vaccinated would be permitted to board. Likewise, all the crew would have to be vaccinated.

[WAMarathoner]

On 10/9/2020 at 10:46 AM, Potstech said:

"...since about 40-50% of folks said they don't plan on taking one." They way that now but when the vaccine becomes available and they are turned away from venues they may change their minds.  

If half the population won't take one, the venues restricting them will die.  Also, for those in the US, people who are covered under the ADA and do not get a vaccine can sue a business that doesn't make a reasonable accommodation for them.

[WAMarathoner]

On 11/7/2020 at 7:38 AM, trvlwrld said:

Saying that masks will be mandatory for a very long time is conjecture (let’s hope)...many of us will not cruise if there is a mask order in place.  There are very very few cases of reinfection, so making those people and ones with antibodies wear masks is going to eliminate a significant group of cruisers.  If you are one of the hypersensitive people who needs to be cautious, cruising is probably not a good fit

Princess gives a non-answer when you ask specifics.  I finally got someone (after several calls and emails) who said that it's not in stone yet, but that masks will not be required where distancing can be in place (like in deck chairs, movies under the stars, etc).  I also *highly* doubt that once we're out of the port, it's not going to be enforced for passengers (will be for crew).  We are just waiting on the definition of "pre-board testing."  We have four cruises planned (three already fully paid) and I'm not apt to get a nasal swab where my DNA is collected.  I'd rather take the money and spend it on some domestic travel, or just put it toward a lot of nice things for the house.

 

I completely agree with you that people who are really worried should not cruise.  They wouldn't enjoy it.  Same with people who are going to be mask-Nazis -- can you imagine how stressful and miserable their cruise would be?

 

 

[caribill]

2 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

But since cruise passengers come from around the world, the answer that requires you to vaccinate the world's population (or at least cruising population) seems unachievable in the next few years. So what else are you going to do to minimize the spread on a ship. 

 

Vaccinating the world's population will be required to keep ports safe for passengers.

[caribill]

5 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

 A major problem with COVID is the fair proportion of people who supposedly recover, but are left with permanent damage to some of their organs. They are partially disabled and may be for life.

 

And here is another organ to add to the list.

https://www.newswise.com/coronavirus/covid-19-can-infect-testes-with-potential-implications-for-male-fertility/?article_id=741193

[Daniel A]

5 hours ago, WAMarathoner said:

 Also, for those in the US, people who are covered under the ADA and do not get a vaccine can sue a business that doesn't make a reasonable accommodation for them.

How does refusing to take a vaccine constitute a disability?

The ADA does not protect workers from termination because the employee refused being vaccinated.

https://www.employmentlawworldview.com/healthcare-workers-vaccine-refusal-not-immunized-by-americans-with-disabilities-act-us/

 

5 hours ago, caribill said:

Vaccinating the world's population will be required to keep ports safe for passengers.

Your response would be more accurate if it said "Vaccinating the world's population will be required to keep ports safe for unvaccinated passengers."

 

[caribill]

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

 

Your response would be more accurate if it said "Vaccinating the world's population will be required to keep ports safe for unvaccinated passengers."

 

 

And for the 10% of vaccinated passengers for whom the vaccine was not effective.

[pris993]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:02 AM, memoak said:

As I have said before we need a vaccine to get back to cruising 

Good news vaccine on horizon.   

[Daniel A]

4 hours ago, caribill said:

 

And for the 10% of vaccinated passengers for whom the vaccine was not effective.

Pfizer has indicated that it is MORE than 90% effective.  They didn't want to publish the exact percentage until trials end later this month.  So, we will wait and see.  Even at 90%, I'm willing to take the risk as long as we also have approved therapeutics which we already have and the CDC is going to require cruise ships to have available.

 

If one chooses to forego the vaccine, they should probably not trust cruising anymore

[chipmaster]

On 11/8/2020 at 10:32 PM, caribill said:

The death rate may be about the same, but the number of cases is significantly higher for Covid-19 and thus many more deaths at the same death rate.

 

So far in about eight months 238,000 people in the USA have died from Covid-19 and its complications. Per the CDC in 2019 there were about 22,000 deaths in the USA from flu and its complications. So Covid-19 is killing over 10 times the number of people that flu does.

 

In about eight months time it is if the entire population of cities such as Lubbock, Texas or Irvine, California or Winston-Salem, North Carolina or Baton Rouge, Louisiana had disappeared.

 

 

And how many of those studies were about masks being of little use against Covid-19 which did not exist for all but one of the last 70 years of studies you are referencing?

 

The actual impact of COVID is far higher, look at the statistics of historical deaths compared to deaths in 2020 and almost in every country the number is far higher than the stated COVID deaths.    There is so much collateral damage, sick people avoiding going to get treatment resulting in early death, to miss-diagnosis, etc. etc.

 

Regardless world travel, leisure travel will forever be a little different as well cruising and self serve buffets, all for the better.  Sad it took such a impact to get people to change, but such is it.

 

Hopefully wearing a mask will become more accepted in the West as it is in the East

[BirdTravels]

 

4 hours ago, Daniel A said:

Pfizer has indicated that it is MORE than 90% effective. 

As noted by the NIH, 90% effectivity is highly unusual. 

 

Pfizer does not have the capacity to vaccinate the country. And there will be many other vaccines being administered in the near future (and you probably won't be able to "go shopping", your area or clinic will have one of the brands). So, the 90% is just media hype right now and not what could be expected by the average person being vaccinated. 

[mcrcruiser]

Right now it seems that  the forecasts for  Covid 19 spread are still gruesome  .We can only  hope that the vaccines  will tamper down this spread ^ hopefully in a big way .right now there is no foretelling the future .  Bill Gates stated that he feels that it will be one year from now until we start seeing  meaningful changes in the spread  

 

 Even though we saw CCL ,RCL & NCL stocks move up a lot , I would not buy shares until there are any vaccines on the market & reports that  at least 70 to 80% have been vaccinated   .A  large percentage of cruisers  are seniors . We are in  our 80s with underlying medical conditions & we aren't that sure we will be ok to take the first of 2 cruises Jan 15 ,2022   because we just do not know yet what % of people will be vaccinated by then   .If we feel uncomfortable   for the Jan 15 ,2022 cruise we can either push it forward or cancel before final payment 

 

 

[capriccio]

3 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

 

Pfizer does not have the capacity to vaccinate the country. And there will be many other vaccines being administered in the near future (and you probably won't be able to "go shopping", your area or clinic will have one of the brands). So, the 90% is just media hype right now and not what could be expected by the average person being vaccinated. 

Dr. Fauci did state yesterday that the Pfizer results may bode well for the Moderna trial results since both vaccines are using the same technology.

[nocl]

On 11/9/2020 at 6:43 PM, Aus Traveller said:

COVID is more infectious than the annual flu, and it also has a higher death rate. It kills not only older people: some younger people have also died. A major problem with COVID is the fair proportion of people who supposedly recover, but are left with permanent damage to some of their organs. They are partially disabled and may be for life.

add to it a recent study showing increased rate of mental illness as well.

[mcrcruiser]

34 minutes ago, nocl said:

add to it a recent study showing increased rate of mental illness as well.

Yes there has to be the mental illness side of covid 19  .If only people would keep themselves entertained with things that are informative & physical they can beat mental illness problems  ,imo

[Aus Traveller]

52 minutes ago, mcrcruiser said:

Yes there has to be the mental illness side of covid 19  .If only people would keep themselves entertained with things that are informative & physical they can beat mental illness problems  ,imo

If only it was that simple. 🙂

[ontheweb]

5 hours ago, Aus Traveller said:

If only it was that simple. 🙂

Ditto, to that. There is such widespread misunderstanding of mental illness.

[nocl]

6 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Yes there has to be the mental illness side of covid 19  .If only people would keep themselves entertained with things that are informative & physical they can beat mental illness problems  ,imo

the study was for people that received from Covid, not just from the stress of the pandemic. It appears that there is a component of the infection that is neurological and resulted in increased mental illness in those that contracted covid and recovered.

[WAMarathoner]

On 11/10/2020 at 6:23 AM, Daniel A said:

How does refusing to take a vaccine constitute a disability?

 

You've got it mixed up.  Some disabilities preclude the vaccination.  THAT'S what is covered under the ADA.  Not simply refusing, but having the disability that makes getting the shot unwise. 

 

Get it if you want.  Your decision.  Same as with any other vaccination.  Do your own research, consider your own risks.  Just don't be a Nazi and push to require it from others who come to different conclusions.