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3 hours ago, Domino D said:

We have a saying with clients who want things done quicker, "Nine women can't make a baby in one month."

I don’t know what industry you are in, but that attitude will not help you to last long.  The rate of change and learning in most industries is exponential.   If you are not improving your product, service, technology or cost, you won ‘t be in business long.  

 

 It’s a cute saying, maybe that was RC’s response to late refunds.  Certainly if my supplier would say that to me, I would be looking for another supplier.  

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5 hours ago, Domino D said:

OB is fair to say that people aren't focusing enough on the "developing" part of your statement when talking about established vaccines?  My understanding is that it takes time to develop, adequately test, and refine a vaccine, and that time line can not be altered by just having more people working on it.  We have a saying with clients who want things done quicker, "Nine women can't make a baby in one month."

The problem with your analogy is that there is no rule that says it takes 9-months for a woman to develop a baby.  I'm no expert in the vaccine business but just like babies, I would think some vaccines take substantially less time to develop than others.

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1 hour ago, The Grumpus said:

The problem with your analogy is that there is no rule that says it takes 9-months for a woman to develop a baby.  I'm no expert in the vaccine business but just like babies, I would think some vaccines take substantially less time to develop than others.

However, babies that take much less than nine months to develop typically require a lot of medical care to get them on their way due to multiple medical issues.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Seville2Cabo said:

I don’t know what industry you are in, but that attitude will not help you to last long.  The rate of change and learning in most industries is exponential.   If you are not improving your product, service, technology or cost, you won ‘t be in business long.  

 

 It’s a cute saying, maybe that was RC’s response to late refunds.  Certainly if my supplier would say that to me, I would be looking for another supplier.  

I've owned a private consulting firm for 33 years, and counting.  We work in risk assessment and resolution.  We are hired by companies who have profitability issues, and have already failed to solve them.  As well as by companies considering launching new products to determine the profit margin of the product and exposure risks to that margin.  

 

I think you would be exactly correct about the statement if we were a "supplier".  We are specialist and do project based work.  We do have clients who keep us on retainer, but no one to whom we have monthly responsibilities.  It is also important to note that except for hourly fees for phone calls, attending meetings, and occasionally attending court or depositions, we work on a contingency type fee.  When we take on a project, there is a financial component attached, if we help them reach the target we get a percentage. If they don't reach the target, we get nothing. 

 

It's funny, I have had plenty of individuals make statements similar to yours over the years, mostly in terms like "we need this done in a month".   They are all told "9 women can't make a baby in one month.  You have big problems and you need to think about getting the next thing you do, right. I don't see us being the right people for your project."  We turn down around 15% of the companies looking to hire us because we aren't a good fit. 

 

I use to work in a Fortune 500 company.  So again, if we were a traditional supplier, I would agree 100% with you.  The difference is, when you are doing something that is very difficult to replace you tend to be viewed in a different light.  

 

In terms of lasting long, what I've learned is 3 things: Be right, Make people money, and Either do something or know something that is not easily replaced. If you can achieve those 3 things, there is a different set of rules.  I know that attitude is probably more shocking.  It's why I never fit into a large corporation, I believe in substance over form. 

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7 hours ago, Domino D said:

OB is fair to say that people aren't focusing enough on the "developing" part of your statement when talking about established vaccines?  My understanding is that it takes time to develop, adequately test, and refine a vaccine, and that time line can not be altered by just having more people working on it.  We have a saying with clients who want things done quicker, "Nine women can't make a baby in one month."

And there is the most important step of all.... time to assess for side effects and complications. It is pretty hard to shorten that step. How many "safe" and vetted medications eventually find their way onto some lawyer's 1-800-baddrug commercial?

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1 minute ago, Ocean Boy said:

And there is the most important step of all.... time to assess for side effects and complications. It is pretty hard to shorten that step. How many "safe" and vetted medications eventually find their way onto some lawyer's 1-800-baddrug commercial?

That is what I thought you have trying to point out all along.  My baby analogy is about somethings can't be rushed.  I don't know anything about vaccine development, but I know processes.  When you rush or cut steps, it rarely results in anything good.  I'm not one for being in the "experimental treatment" group.  So for me, yes waiting an acceptable length of time to see what side affects may come up, and have a large enough test base,  is time that is needed. 

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11 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

And there is the most important step of all.... time to assess for side effects and complications. It is pretty hard to shorten that step. How many "safe" and vetted medications eventually find their way onto some lawyer's 1-800-baddrug commercial?

While I understand there are differences between the flu and Covid are there not similarities between how the vaccines work in principal.  Does this help shorten any of these times needed to access foe side effects and complications?  How do they come out with new variants of the flu vaccine every year and how much testing does each one of those need to undergo?  

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14 minutes ago, Domino D said:

That is what I thought you have trying to point out all along.  My baby analogy is about somethings can't be rushed.  I don't know anything about vaccine development, but I know processes.  When you rush or cut steps, it rarely results in anything good.  I'm not one for being in the "experimental treatment" group.  So for me, yes waiting an acceptable length of time to see what side affects may come up, and have a large enough test base,  is time that is needed. 

I have no desire to be in some exerimental group either. And the people on these boards who post how they can't wait to roll up their sleeves for a shot just so they can get on a cruise ship are very short sighted.... in my opinion.

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3 minutes ago, Ocean Boy said:

I have no desire to be in some exerimental group either. And the people on these boards who post how they can't wait to roll up their sleeves for a shot just so they can get on a cruise ship are very short sighted.... in my opinion.

So long they are not relatives of mine, okay, but not me.  I want to cruise, but I really like breathing. 

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16 minutes ago, Ourusualbeach said:

While I understand there are differences between the flu and Covid are there not similarities between how the vaccines work in principal.  Does this help shorten any of these times needed to access foe side effects and complications?  How do they come out with new variants of the flu vaccine every year and how much testing does each one of those need to undergo?  

The basic flu vaccine is the same every year. What changes is the antigen that is put into the vaccine. Every year they do what they can to figure out what strains of Influenza A and B are circulating around and put the corresponding antigen into the vaccine. It is not a yearly invention of a new vaccine.

 

There are Covid vaccines that are working with antigens, some with the virus RNA sequencing. I can't say that I stay on top of it as it is hard enough keeping up with the changes to the every day practice of medicine.

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2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I have no desire to be in some exerimental group either. And the people on these boards who post how they can't wait to roll up their sleeves for a shot just so they can get on a cruise ship are very short sighted.... in my opinion.

The physician that my wife works for is in a high risk group, age, weight pre diabetic. He is overkill with the protective gear as he performs colonoscopies, endoscopies and other surgical procedures. He has been deathly afraid of becoming ill with covid. Would you believe this man wanted to volunteer for the trials. My wife talked him out of it. She said you are a brilliant doctor but you lack common sense. Look in the mirror you are practically wrapped in cellophane because you are so paranoid. Why on earth would you volunteer for a vaccine trial? 

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2 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I have no desire to be in some exerimental group either. And the people on these boards who post how they can't wait to roll up their sleeves for a shot just so they can get on a cruise ship are very short sighted.... in my opinion.

I don't give two hoots if I ever cruise again.  It may or may not happen depending on how cruising recovers post-covid, but I do care about spending time with my grandson, entertaining friends and family, going out to a movie and dinner, and just living a normal life. In order to do what is really important to me, I WILL be the first in line when a vaccine is available.

I'll trade  virus immunity now over what might happen 10 years down the road any day.  Besides I keep hearing about long term side effects from having the virus, so which is worse?  

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1 hour ago, Iamcruzin said:

The physician that my wife works for is in a high risk group, age, weight pre diabetic. He is overkill with the protective gear as he performs colonoscopies, endoscopies and other surgical procedures. He has been deathly afraid of becoming ill with covid. Would you believe this man wanted to volunteer for the trials. My wife talked him out of it. She said you are a brilliant doctor but you lack common sense. Look in the mirror you are practically wrapped in cellophane because you are so paranoid. Why on earth would you volunteer for a vaccine trial? 

 

The thing that got me about volunteering for a vaccine trial, is that you are then prohibited from receiving an actual approved covid vaccine for something like 2 years, while the study goes on. I understand the reason behind it, to not skew the results,  but I don't want to limit my options that way. I do sincerely commend the folks that have volunteered to be in the trials. :classic_smile:

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3 hours ago, mek said:

I don't give two hoots if I ever cruise again.  It may or may not happen depending on how cruising recovers post-covid, but I do care about spending time with my grandson, entertaining friends and family, going out to a movie and dinner, and just living a normal life. In order to do what is really important to me, I WILL be the first in line when a vaccine is available.

I'll trade  virus immunity now over what might happen 10 years down the road any day.  Besides I keep hearing about long term side effects from having the virus, so which is worse?  

Well said, we totally agree.

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9 hours ago, mek said:

I don't give two hoots if I ever cruise again.  It may or may not happen depending on how cruising recovers post-covid, but I do care about spending time with my grandson, entertaining friends and family, going out to a movie and dinner, and just living a normal life. In order to do what is really important to me, I WILL be the first in line when a vaccine is available.

I'll trade  virus immunity now over what might happen 10 years down the road any day.  Besides I keep hearing about long term side effects from having the virus, so which is worse?  

I think you misinterpreted my intention. There are many good reasons for some folks to be first in line to get a vaccine. I just don't regard to be able to get on a cruise ship to be one of them. I don't look at a cruise as valuable enough to risk what might happen to me ten years down the road from the vaccine. Others may feel differently. Everyone's situation is different. If I were 80 years old I might get the shot just to go cruising. However, I am not 80 and I do still plan for more than 10 years down the road though practicing medicine has taught me well that nothing is guaranteed.

 

As for your question about which is worse, side effects from the virus or the vaccine, I think we would both agree that neither of us can answer that question when we are talking about a presently non-existent vaccine and a virus that many people don't even know they have been infected with.

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3 hours ago, Ocean Boy said:

I think you misinterpreted my intention. There are many good reasons for some folks to be first in line to get a vaccine. I just don't regard to be able to get on a cruise ship to be one of them. I don't look at a cruise as valuable enough to risk what might happen to me ten years down the road from the vaccine. Others may feel differently. Everyone's situation is different. If I were 80 years old I might get the shot just to go cruising. However, I am not 80 and I do still plan for more than 10 years down the road though practicing medicine has taught me well that nothing is guaranteed.

 

As for your question about which is worse, side effects from the virus or the vaccine, I think we would both agree that neither of us can answer that question when we are talking about a presently non-existent vaccine and a virus that many people don't even know they have been infected with.

I think you and I are basically on the same page.  LOL.   

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9 hours ago, crazyank said:

Well said, we totally agree.

Time to hijack a thread.

How are things going in Germany?  The rest of Europe is not looking good right now.

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Has anyone heard if the crew member that tested positive on msc tested positive for the pcr test they were going to do when they docked?

Imo it is expected they will have a case here or there and the protocols and testing in place will stop an outbreak from happening on a ship.

 

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8 hours ago, Goodtime Cruizin said:

Royal will enforce the wearing of masks. We'll all be fine. 

Yes, a thin piece of cloth is going to save us all.  Why didn't you mention this the day the "virus" was created?  We wouldn't have been in this position now, and you would have probably won the nobel prize for this revelation!

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2 hours ago, dssking said:

Yes, a thin piece of cloth is going to save us all.  Why didn't you mention this the day the "virus" was created?  We wouldn't have been in this position now, and you would have probably won the nobel prize for this revelation!

 

I think it was sarcasm. :classic_biggrin::classic_tongue:

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14 hours ago, mek said:

Time to hijack a thread.

How are things going in Germany?  The rest of Europe is not looking good right now.

Not great,  rising numbers,  politicians in total panic,  more and more threats of lockdowns.  So far no mandatory border closures or travel forbidden.  Some travel "warnings"  these are advice and not laws.

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6 hours ago, crazyank said:

Not great,  rising numbers,  politicians in total panic,  more and more threats of lockdowns.  So far no mandatory border closures or travel forbidden.  Some travel "warnings"  these are advice and not laws.

I'm sorry to hear that.  I fear it's going to be a long winter for all of us.

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On 10/16/2020 at 9:55 PM, franncos said:

When thousands of people are on a  Mega Cruise Ship,  it is inevitable someone will get the virus.

Not if they INSIST on VACCINATION to BOARD putting the important words in big capital letters. I think they will not back down from such an instance. I suspect many ports in the world will also insist upon similar to allow ships to dock in the future so it may even be out of their hands.

 

And don't for a second believe a small ship will be immune. Here in UK we have had at least 740k cases for a country of 67 million so at least 1 in about 98 people have had this.

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1 hour ago, ace2542 said:

Not if they INSIST on VACCINATION to BOARD putting the important words in big capital letters. I think they will not back down from such an instance. I suspect many ports in the world will also insist upon similar to allow ships to dock in the future so it may even be out of their hands.

 

And don't for a second believe a small ship will be immune. Here in UK we have had at least 740k cases for a country of 67 million so at least 1 in about 98 people have had this.

So you think a vaccine is going to be 100% effective. The virus will get on the ships, vaccine or not.

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