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UK Gov set to ease measures


molecrochip
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2 hours ago, Dermotsgirl said:

I think it was probably longer than three days. 
 

The Sea Dream was the ship that picked up 19 people from Portsmouth about 3 or 4 weeks ago, so there had been a maskless trans Atlantic crossing.  They got lucky that nobody had brought the virus aboard from the European pick ups.

 

The change to mask wearing happened about 2-3 days into the week long cruise from Barbados. It is thought that this happened due to a backlash on social media. One of the bloggers onboard had posted a photo of the maskless crew, and there was a lot of adverse comments about this on social media.

 

Of course, it was like shutting the stable door after the horse had bolted, as the 5 infected people had already spent at least two maskless days wandering around the ship.

 

We’ll probably never know the full extent of the outbreak as the Barbadian authorities wanted the passengers off the island, allowing them to fly out of the country on commercial flights with no further quarantine 

The early comments from most scientific bodies was that wearing masks would have little impact on the spread of the virus,  although later this was qualified to say that maybe it might reduce the viral load shedding by someone who had the virus, but did little to keep the wearer safe. However its main use was the placebo effect of making people feel safer.

So I am not sure why there is this hue and cry over this Seadream incident.

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1 hour ago, Harry Peterson said:

Do try, Zap, not to look so hard for anything you might like to call pessimism or negativity. It’s a very negative trait in itself.

 

There are plenty of people in this forum trying to cope with a very difficult situation, which is preventing them not just from cruising but normal life, and they’re all trying to sort out the facts from the fiction to work out a sensible game plan.

 

Just assimilating and understanding facts, working out the risks, whether they’re real or not, how great they are etc.  Just seems plain common sense and logic to me. 

That's fine Harry, but it does seem that some of the pessimists on here rather enjoy wallowing in bad or dubious  news, and their main desire seems to be to try and recruit as many followers as possible.

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5 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

The early comments from most scientific bodies was that wearing masks would have little impact on the spread of the virus,  although later this was qualified to say that maybe it might reduce the viral load shedding by someone who had the virus, but did little to keep the wearer safe. However its main use was the placebo effect of making people feel safer.

So I am not sure why there is this hue and cry over this Seadream incident.

Face masks are primarily worn to protect other people from the person wearing the mask. 
 

We’ve moved on from the early days of the pandemic and the wearing of masks is now a world wide convention. It is recognised that masks offer limited protection, but it’s better than nothing. 
 

The wearing of masks from the beginning of the cruise may or may not have stopped the spread of the virus on board - but the outbreak shouldn’t be ignored as it confirms what is likely to happen on cruises when there’s an outbreak on a cruise one of us might sail on. Immediate confinement to cabins and straight back to Southampton- holiday over. 

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23 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

That's fine Harry, but it does seem that some of the pessimists on here rather enjoy wallowing in bad or dubious  news, and their main desire seems to be to try and recruit as many followers as possible.

Not sure if I am included in this group. Not that I mind too much, but I object to the term "wallowing".

I have never stopped going out to shop, eating and drinking out, when allowed to do so, and generally trying to live as normal a life as possible.  

My position is clear - I think the introduction of a vaccine will be a game changer, in the sense that mortality rates from CV19 will decrease, and that hopefully the NHS can attack the waiting list backlog.

Where I have a issue, is with those (not necessarily on this forum),  who believe that the vaccine will allow life to return to normal anytime next year, which is why I am not booking any  foreign holiday for 2021. Those who believe that they will be able to just turn up at the airport in May and fly off on holiday exactly as they did in 2019, are in my opinion, misguided.

To fully get back to some semblance of normality, not only do we need the vaccine, but we also need a fast, accurate and inexpensive CV19 testing regime. When that happens, I will be as realistic/optimistic as the next man/woman.

Edited by wowzz
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The problem here is that people are not allowing any optimism. People have to have hope. If everything, vaccines and C19 testing regime, are in place then it is past optimism and is fact. Bullying goes both ways, others are afraid to speak as some people on here are so strong.   

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4 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

The problem here is that people are not allowing any optimism. People have to have hope. If everything, vaccines and C19 testing regime, are in place then it is past optimism and is fact. Bullying goes both ways, others are afraid to speak as some people on here are so strong.   

Couldn't have said it better myself. 

 

There's a lot of hypocrisy going on here today.

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9 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

The problem here is that people are not allowing any optimism. People have to have hope. If everything, vaccines and C19 testing regime, are in place then it is past optimism and is fact. Bullying goes both ways, others are afraid to speak as some people on here are so strong.   

I find that if you say anything optimistic you will get shot down and ridiculed by disagreeing . I will come back onto this forum one day, but only when people cheer up a bit and stop being so touchy if you don't agree with their views.

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52 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Not sure if I am included in this group. Not that I mind too much, but I object to the term "wallowing".

I have never stopped going out to shop, eating and drinking out, when allowed to do so, and generally trying to live as normal a life as possible.  

My position is clear - I think the introduction of a vaccine will be a game changer, in the sense that mortality rates from CV19 will decrease, and that hopefully the NHS can attack the waiting list backlog.

Where I have a issue, is with those (not necessarily on this forum),  who believe that the vaccine will allow life to return to normal anytime next year, which is why I am not booking any  foreign holiday for 2021. Those who believe that they will be able to just turn up at the airport in May and fly off on holiday exactly as they did in 2019, are in my opinion, misguided.

To fully get back to some semblance of normality, not only do we need the vaccine, but we also need a fast, accurate and inexpensive CV19 testing regime. When that happens, I will be as realistic/optimistic as the next man/woman.

Wowzz, you are the archetypal floating voter, and with your ability to tack from one side to the other  you would probably make a fantastic yachtsman.

As regards your views on if and when things might return to normal, as long as you, and anyone else, apply these views to your own situation is fine, but there have been too many occasions on here where posters try to ridicule others for being optimistic. I do try not to belittle people for their negative views, to which they are fully entitled  I just wish they would allow me the same respect when I comment in a positive vein.

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3 minutes ago, zap99 said:

I find that if you say anything optimistic you will get shot down and ridiculed by disagreeing . I will come back onto this forum one day, but only when people cheer up a bit and stop being so touchy if you don't agree with their views.

Thing is, if you say anything realistic, you are also shot down, ridiculed and accused of ‘wallowing’. 
I want to be optimistic, as by nature I’m an optimist, but I prefer to consider myself realistic in these difficult times rather than reside in a kind of la-la land in which everything will soon be back to normal. 

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1 minute ago, Ardennais said:

Thing is, if you say anything realistic, you are also shot down, ridiculed and accused of ‘wallowing’. 
I want to be optimistic, as by nature I’m an optimist, but I prefer to consider myself realistic in these difficult times rather than reside in a kind of la-la land in which everything will soon be back to normal. 

Well put. When did being realistic become being "wallowing" in pessimism ? 

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28 minutes ago, Gettingwarmer said:

The problem here is that people are not allowing any optimism. People have to have hope. If everything, vaccines and C19 testing regime, are in place then it is past optimism and is fact. Bullying goes both ways, others are afraid to speak as some people on here are so strong.   

I think most people on here have expressed optimism about the upcoming vaccines.

 

I understand that people sometimes find it difficult to express their opinions when there’s a lot of eloquently crafted posts flying back and forth, but, I think most people would actually welcome new voices speaking up.

 

 

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28 minutes ago, terrierjohn said:

Wowzz, you are the archetypal floating voter, and with your ability to tack from one side to the other  you would probably make a fantastic yachtsman.

As regards your views on if and when things might return to normal, as long as you, and anyone else, apply these views to your own situation is fine, but there have been too many occasions on here where posters try to ridicule others for being optimistic. I do try not to belittle people for their negative views, to which they are fully entitled  I just wish they would allow me the same respect when I comment in a positive vein.

What has been said to make you feel ridiculed? What has been done to make you feel that you are being disrespected? It sounds very personal, so someone must have made personal comments?  
 

Incidentally, saying people have ‘negative’ views can easily be construed as belittling behaviour 
 

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There always has been and they will never change but they think they are experts on every subject. A while back some suddenly became experts on Captaining a ship and knew more than actually P&O Captain's about missing or not docking at ports and now they are experts on Covid-19. Where would be without these experts 🤣🤣🤣 

Edited by majortom10
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Just now, majortom10 said:

There always has been and they will never change but they think they are experts on every subject and I dont suppose they will ever change. A while back some suddenly became experts on Captaining a ship and knew more than actually P&O Captain's about missing or not docking at ports and now they are experts on Covid-19. Where would be without these experts 🤣🤣🤣 

Are these experts people who agree with you or disagree with you? 

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1 minute ago, Dermotsgirl said:

Are these experts people who agree with you or disagree with you? 

Never had any to either disagree or agree with me personally but the same few, and they know who they are, commented repeatedly on here about docking of ships at ports and that Captain's on P&O ships were always to quick to cancel ports. I think the only ship some of the "experts" have ever had to control is the ones they play with in the bath.

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3 minutes ago, majortom10 said:

Never had any to either disagree or agree with me personally but the same few, and they know who they are, commented repeatedly on here about docking of ships at ports and that Captain's on P&O ships were always to quick to cancel ports. I think the only ship some of the "experts" have ever had to control is the ones they play with in the bath.

Well, at least that's something I can't be accused of !

 

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19 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

But all of our realities will be different.  And that's fine, that's human nature. We don't actually have all the facts and evidence to hand to be able to say whose reality is correct. 

But if my reality is different to yours, does that make mine invalid? 

Your version of being realistic is the only one that counts then? 

I agree, all our realities are different as our experience of the current situation. I’ve said before, I work from home and have done so for a few years so I haven’t had to change my everyday life. My other half is self-employed and had devised his own risk-assessed work schedule, no problem for either of us. 
However the children have all had to adjust their working lives and to be frank, they don’t think that ‘normality’ will resume for many many months, if not a few years. One teaches and tells me that school is a very strange environment at the moment, one that I would not recognise not having been in a classroom this year.   The others are working from home and only 10-15% of their colleagues can physically work from the office at once - currently the ones who have no internet access at home (not unusual in these parts!). 
Our children are all seasoned cruisers and based on the realities of their working lives now, think that cruising won’t be able to resume for quite a while, certainly not in terms of attending shows and exploring ports as they did in the past.
So I’m just wondering - quite a lot of us on here are retired, semi-retired or possibly work from home as I do. Yes our lives have changed, family life is different and our social lives have been disrupted. But we have little experience of the impact of Covid on working life - and I’m stressing here that this of course does not apply to all posters. 

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6 minutes ago, Ardennais said:

I agree, all our realities are different as our experience of the current situation. I’ve said before, I work from home and have done so for a few years so I haven’t had to change my everyday life. My other half is self-employed and had devised his own risk-assessed work schedule, no problem for either of us. 
However the children have all had to adjust their working lives and to be frank, they don’t think that ‘normality’ will resume for many many months, if not a few years. One teaches and tells me that school is a very strange environment at the moment, one that I would not recognise not having been in a classroom this year.   The others are working from home and only 10-15% of their colleagues can physically work from the office at once - currently the ones who have no internet access at home (not unusual in these parts!). 
Our children are all seasoned cruisers and based on the realities of their working lives now, think that cruising won’t be able to resume for quite a while, certainly not in terms of attending shows and exploring ports as they did in the past.
So I’m just wondering - quite a lot of us on here are retired, semi-retired or possibly work from home as I do. Yes our lives have changed, family life is different and our social lives have been disrupted. But we have little experience of the impact of Covid on working life - and I’m stressing here that this of course does not apply to all posters. 

Absolutely, we've all had a different experience. I've gone from 100% office working to 100% home working. My partner works for the NHS on the front line so that's obviously had its challenges. I think it's forced people to question why we spend half of our lives commuting when we can work just as well from home. So I think for a lot of people, the change that comes from this will provide a much better work/life balance.

As much as our lives have changed, I still think we'll be making steps towards a more normal situation from the start of next year. As the vaccine roll out happens, there'll also undoubtedly be more treatments that emerge, we'll have come out of the second peak (and viruses in the past have diminished after their second peak), and the better weather will all contribute. Are we going to snap our fingers and go back to normal. Very doubtful. But all the signs are that things should be much better next year! 

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10 minutes ago, Ardennais said:


So I’m just wondering - quite a lot of us on here are retired, semi-retired or possibly work from home as I do. Yes our lives have changed, family life is different and our social lives have been disrupted. But we have little experience of the impact of Covid on working life - and I’m stressing here that this of course does not apply to all posters. 

I think that's a good point. I stopped working nearly 6 years ago, and, to be honest, my day to day life hasn't changed very much at all, apart from the freedom to go out when I want.

 

I feel I'm somewhat cocooned from the full force of the Covid impact, but I can imagine how if might feel like for people worried about losing their job, or having to work in situations where they feel at risk from Covid.

 

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It was actually our children who ‘accused’ me of being in la-la land when I mentioned the possibility of booking a cruise for the second half of next year. They thought I was mad. That hasn’t stopped me considering the new releases for 2022 though! 

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14 minutes ago, cruisenewbie1976 said:

Absolutely, we've all had a different experience. I've gone from 100% office working to 100% home working. My partner works for the NHS on the front line so that's obviously had its challenges. I think it's forced people to question why we spend half of our lives commuting when we can work just as well from home. So I think for a lot of people, the change that comes from this will provide a much better work/life balance.

As much as our lives have changed, I still think we'll be making steps towards a more normal situation from the start of next year. As the vaccine roll out happens, there'll also undoubtedly be more treatments that emerge, we'll have come out of the second peak (and viruses in the past have diminished after their second peak), and the better weather will all contribute. Are we going to snap our fingers and go back to normal. Very doubtful. But all the signs are that things should be much better next year! 

Absolutely. But I think younger workers need to spend at least some time in the actual workplace - to network, make friends, learn from more experienced staff etc. 

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