CDC Issues Framework Order

[hhalliv]

1 minute ago, bones774 said:

As a multi times per year cruiser, a) a new letter for every cruise? 2) How long would one letter be good for, annual, semi-annual, etc.? 

Great questions! Plus, do pre-existing conditions automatically mean you’re not “fit to sail?”

[bones774]

1 minute ago, hhalliv said:

Great questions! Plus, do pre-existing conditions automatically mean you’re not “fit to sail?”

I might get flamed for this but along the pre-existing conditions, does morbidly obese, diabetic, transplant survivor, etc, mean unfit to sail? The more pre-existing conditions one has could make covid a death sentence, not a good look for the lines. A Slippery slope.

[ColeThornton]

Many people, due to the current pandemic are having a hard enough time getting in to their doctors office just for "regular" issues.   It also brings up an interesting situation:   Due to fears of malpractice suits, which are so common in our society, how many doctors will be willing to sign off on a letter saying you are healthy and okay to sail without going through an entire battery of tests?  I highly doubt insurance would pay for an evolution like that.

 

Just a little food for thought.

[bones774]

2 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

Many people, due to the current pandemic are having a hard enough time getting in to their doctors office just for "regular" issues.   It also brings up an interesting situation:   Due to fears of malpractice suits, which are so common in our society, how many doctors will be willing to sign off on a letter saying you are healthy and okay to sail without going through an entire battery of tests?  I highly doubt insurance would pay for an evolution like that.

 

Just a little food for thought.

I don't know if that would be much of an issue. I go to doctor annually and he performs all the basic tests. What would be the "mal" practice if he writes a letter and states that according to his present examination your body temp, blood work and pressure, ekg, and physical examination shows no reason for you not to sail? When you walk out of his office without any further doctors orders or referrals, he is basically saying you have good health.

That's if the lines were to accept a once annual letter from Dr.

[njhorseman]

24 minutes ago, hhalliv said:

Still digesting this document and all of the external references.

 

Apparently the CDC may require cruise lines to obtain medical letters stating that all travelers are fit to sail and have no pre-existing conditions.

 

17 minutes ago, bones774 said:

As a multi times per year cruiser, a) a new letter for every cruise? 2) How long would one letter be good for, annual, semi-annual, etc.? 

 

14 minutes ago, hhalliv said:

Great questions! Plus, do pre-existing conditions automatically mean you’re not “fit to sail?”

 

7 minutes ago, bones774 said:

I might get flamed for this but along the pre-existing conditions, does morbidly obese, diabetic, transplant survivor, etc, mean unfit to sail? The more pre-existing conditions one has could make covid a death sentence, not a good look for the lines. A Slippery slope.

 

1 minute ago, ColeThornton said:

Many people, due to the current pandemic are having a hard enough time getting in to their doctors office just for "regular" issues.   It also brings up an interesting situation:   Due to fears of malpractice suits, which are so common in our society, how many doctors will be willing to sign off on a letter saying you are healthy and okay to sail without going through an entire battery of tests?  I highly doubt insurance would pay for an evolution like that.

 

Just a little food for thought.

Please read the CDC order carefully. The requirement for certification that the passengers have no pre-existing medical conditions putting them at a high risk for COVID-19 is for the simulated voyages that must be undertaken prior to the cruise line applying for a Conditional Sailing Certificate. It is not at this time a requirement for actual passenger cruises.

[bones774]

2 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

 

 

Please read the CDC order carefully. The requirement for certification that the passengers have no pre-existing medical conditions putting them at a high risk for COVID-19 is for the simulated voyages that must be undertaken prior to the cruise line applying for a Conditional Sailing Certificate. It is not at this time a requirement for actual passenger cruises.

I'm not one for reading lengthy legal docs, hence my post here and your concise answer, thanks

PS-I'm due for my annual medical early Nov, gonna talk with my doctor, maybe he could write up something real quick like mom used to for excused absences in school, lol. Can't hurt.

Edited October 31, 2020 by bones774

[ColeThornton]

1 minute ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

 

 

Please read the CDC order carefully. The requirement for certification that the passengers have no pre-existing medical conditions putting them at a high risk for COVID-19 is for the simulated voyages that must be undertaken prior to the cruise line applying for a Conditional Sailing Certificate. It is not at this time a requirement for actual passenger cruises.

 

Horsie, I'll just rely on your usual good analysis.  I'm not about to read a 40 page CDC document on a beautiful fall day when I'm watching college football.   🙂

[bones774]

1 minute ago, ColeThornton said:

 

Horsie, I'll just rely on your usual good analysis.  I'm not about to read a 40 page CDC document on a beautiful fall day when I'm watching college football.   🙂

fer sure

[BEACHBARB]

Originally the CDC wanted the no sail order extended to February 15, 2021 until the White House got involved.  So I have no faith in the CDC at this point.  I'll wait until there is a safe and effective vaccine and no masks are required anywhere anymore. To each his own.

[njhorseman]

2 minutes ago, BEACHBARB said:

Originally the CDC wanted the no sail order extended to February 15, 2021 until the White House got involved.  So I have no faith in the CDC at this point.  I'll wait until there is a safe and effective vaccine and no masks are required anywhere anymore. To each his own.

Actually this should restore your faith in the CDC because they've cleverly skirted the White House's rejection of the No Sail Order extension into February by replacing it with this Conditional Sailing Order that will likely delay the restart of cruising at least until then. Compliance with the Conditional Sail Order will be a lengthy and difficult process at best. 

 

That having been said, we also aren't going to cruise until a safe and effective vaccine is in widespread use.

[hhalliv]

22 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

 

 

Please read the CDC order carefully. The requirement for certification that the passengers have no pre-existing medical conditions putting them at a high risk for COVID-19 is for the simulated voyages that must be undertaken prior to the cruise line applying for a Conditional Sailing Certificate. It is not at this time a requirement for actual passenger cruises.

You’re right! I went back and re-read.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

[macandlucy]

24 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

Actually this should restore your faith in the CDC because they've cleverly skirted the White House's rejection of the No Sail Order extension into February by replacing it with this Conditional Sailing Order that will likely delay the restart of cruising at least until then. Compliance with the Conditional Sail Order will be a lengthy and difficult process at best. 

 

That having been said, we also aren't going to cruise until a safe and effective vaccine is in widespread use.

That plus the large, “Avoid all cruise ship travel” warning to the public. It’s pretty plain that they don’t want people cruising.

 

If the cruise line satisfies me that they have added these improved air filtration measures, I would cruise today. I am really only concerned about aerosols. I can do my own distancing, hand hygiene and droplet prevention like I do every day.

[zqvol]

1 hour ago, bones774 said:

I don't know if that would be much of an issue. I go to doctor annually and he performs all the basic tests. What would be the "mal" practice if he writes a letter and states that according to his present examination your body temp, blood work and pressure, ekg, and physical examination shows no reason for you not to sail? When you walk out of his office without any further doctors orders or referrals, he is basically saying you have good health.

That's if the lines were to accept a once annual letter from Dr.

I imagine that the lines are going to want a recent letter (to me that is within 10 -14 days of sailing).

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, ColeThornton said:

Due to fears of malpractice suits, which are so common in our society, how many doctors will be willing to sign off on a letter saying you are healthy and okay to sail without going through an entire battery of tests?  

While the letter is not needed for the general public, it is the part in red above that would cause most doctor's to refuse to sign the letter, regardless of how healthy you are. There use to be some dive excursions that asked for a doctor's note. My GP refused to say anything about "okay to dive". He would just state that I passed my physical exam. 

[reeinaz]

3 hours ago, hhalliv said:

Still digesting this document and all of the external references.

 

Apparently the CDC may require cruise lines to obtain medical letters stating that all travelers are fit to sail and have no pre-existing conditions.

I think this is just for the people volunteering for the test cruises

[oteixeira]

On 10/31/2020 at 1:23 PM, SeaWatcher65 said:

NCL not willing to change their game plan or lower prices

I really think the cruise industry is doomed for bankruptcy unless they change up their game.  I love cruising but I cannot imagine anyone willing to book a cruise vacation unless they have a future cruise credit from a prior cancellation during COVID-19.  I have 4 cruise next deposits but not booking with NCL until the absolute end of the expiration of those deposits.  Even then, I might cancel.  Since COVID started in March 2020, NCL has greatly increased the prices of cruises by $1500 to $3000 more than I originally booked the same cruises for 2020 and 2021.  If NCL lowers prices, then they are stuck with lower prices.  They seem to be more interested in hiking up prices to stay out of bankruptcy.

 

NCL must think there is no competition.  

The advantages of taking a cruise for me are gone - the variety of ports and entertainment, the all inclusive (sort of) price, fun with groups of people.  For the same or less money, I can take a much better luxurious land-based Caribbean island vacation.  

 

NCL will have to make adjustments.  I doubt I will be able to use the thermal suites spa.  Will I be able to sit at the pool bar and talk with interesting people?  Will I be able to dine and do other fun activities to meet new people?  Will I enjoy the big on-deck parties?  No...  It will be as boring as a Celebrity cruise.   And I might as well cruise with Celebrity instead.   And don't get me wrong -- if I just want to eat, drink, laugh a little, and spend a lot of quiet time on my balcony -- then Celebrity is perfect.  With social distancing, NCL will be like a Celebrity Cruise and I might as well go with Celebrity (or another cruise line) and pay less money.

 

Good luck fellow cruisers!  

This has been discussed all through the no-sail for the most part.  What you are missing is the competition you speak of is doing the same thing, if not worse.  Celebrity has doubled from a lot of the posts I read, no one is cheaper, not even close.  As for land based, it's not the same vacation, so you can't compare them.  If I can't have a coffee or drink on my balcony out on the ocean, it's a no go for me.

As for the spa, there is nothing in the guidelines saying they can't be open.  The rest you ask about, well, it will be what it is to start, and I agree that you won't be able to talk to people as easily.  I personally don't meet people when dining, as I sit with my wife.  Cruising for us is a way to spend quality one on one time with each other, if we happen to meet some nice people, great, but that is not why we are there.  My guess is that it is 50/50 in terms of what people are looking for on a cruise with meeting new folks.  Lots of people I speak to are just like me, looking for a break from life and quality time with their SO.  

Edited November 1, 2020 by oteixeira

[DrBanjo]

I am booked for a NCL Pride of America cruise of the Hawaiian Islands in late February 2021.   Does anybody think that NCL will be able to meet all of the CDC requirements before then?

[seaman11]

25 minutes ago, DrBanjo said:

I am booked for a NCL Pride of America cruise of the Hawaiian Islands in late February 2021.   Does anybody think that NCL will be able to meet all of the CDC requirements before then?

how many days is that cruise?  I think by feb yes they will have the tests and trial runs done, maybe even by jan. 

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, seaman11 said:

how many days is that cruise?  I think by feb yes they will have the tests and trial runs done, maybe even by jan. 

All POA cruises are 7 nights. the ship sails only one itinerary.

[zqvol]

2 hours ago, DrBanjo said:

I am booked for a NCL Pride of America cruise of the Hawaiian Islands in late February 2021.   Does anybody think that NCL will be able to meet all of the CDC requirements before then?

I would be very surprised. The CDC is doing all that they can to prevent cruising without issuing a new no sail order. Until we see if they approve any plans by any cruise line I would not count on getting on a cruise ship, especially one that is US flagged.

[njhorseman]

16 minutes ago, zqvol said:

I would be very surprised. The CDC is doing all that they can to prevent cruising without issuing a new no sail order. Until we see if they approve any plans by any cruise line I would not count on getting on a cruise ship, especially one that is US flagged.

But...a POA cruise has the advantage of not having to meet the requirements of another country. I think there's a reasonable chance that POA cruises will be among the first, if not the first, to restart for that reason.

Edited November 2, 2020 by njhorseman

[PelicanBill]

I did not see any requirement to obtain medical fitness for passengers.  I did see

 

- Testing and observation on day of embarkation before allowing embarkation

- more testing during cruise

- Test on day of disembarkation, do not leave ship until results known

- Test after day of disembarkation

 

 

[Formula280SS]

8 minutes ago, PelicanBill said:

I did not see any requirement to obtain medical fitness for passengers.  I did see

 

- Testing and observation on day of embarkation before allowing embarkation

- more testing during cruise

- Test on day of disembarkation, do not leave ship until results known

- Test after day of disembarkation

 

 

 

There is the following provision applicable to the "simulated voyage phase" ~

 

 

I actually support similar protocols during the resumption of passenger cruising (also phased in).  Passengers at risk of death from getting infected by the virus because of their health condition(s) identified (the high risk categories) should simply not be allowed on the initial return phase to cruising. 

 

Getting the virus, a "case," is one thing; having it result in a "death" is another.

 

 

 

[SeaWatcher65]

This just proves my theory.  NCL knew darn well they were not going to have cruises in December.  But they waited to announce it until it was past the final payment date (the extended final payment date) for the last December cruise.  I guess they hope people made those payment so they can hold onto the money, take forever to issue refunds, and try to offer some special deal like 10% off and they inflated all of their future cruise prices.  Disgusted with NCL and any other cruise line following this practice.

 

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, SeaWatcher65 said:

This just proves my theory.  NCL knew darn well they were not going to have cruises in December.  But they waited to announce it until it was past the final payment date (the extended final payment date) for the last December cruise.  I guess they hope people made those payment so they can hold onto the money, take forever to issue refunds, and try to offer some special deal like 10% off and they inflated all of their future cruise prices.  Disgusted with NCL and any other cruise line following this practice.

 

This is about the only time during the pandemic that I'm not upset with when the cruise lines announced the next series of cancellations. They knew that the No Sail Order was not going to be extended past October 31 and they had submitted recommendations for their restart protocols via the Healthy Sail Panel, so it was not unreasonable for the cruise lines to believe there was at least glimmer of hope that cruising could resume, if only to a limited extent, sometime in December...even if it was late December. The coffin wasn't nailed shut on those hopes until Friday October 30 when the CDC issued its Conditional Sailing Order, which clearly made it impossible for the cruise lines to resume any cruising in December.

 

If you're disgusted with NCL you better be disgusted with all the major US-based cruise lines holding companies as they all did the same thing.