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Cruise Lines - Time of Plan Move USA Cruises OFFSHORE


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1 hour ago, beerman2 said:

Haven't you listened to any of the Pres-elects speeches? Pretty sure he has mentioned it.

 

1 hour ago, ukbecky said:

Pretty sure there's a qualifying statement in there "if the scientists recommend it".  I have not seen where either Fauci or Redfield have advocated a shutdown, in fact in August, Fauci said we could weather the virus without a shutdown, if we followed precautions.  Haven't seen anything from either on a shutdown since August.  I don't see many scientists shouting for a total shutdown, more like bans on large gatherings and dense locations like bars.

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10 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Pretty sure there's a qualifying statement in there "if the scientists recommend it".  I have not seen where either Fauci or Redfield have advocated a shutdown, in fact in August, Fauci said we could weather the virus without a shutdown, if we followed precautions.  Haven't seen anything from either on a shutdown since August.  I don't see many scientists shouting for a total shutdown, more like bans on large gatherings and dense locations like bars.

Isn't there most always a qualifying statement 😂😂😂.

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Ok my turn. This theead has my head spinning. If you have followed any of my posts Im the one that wants to be first in line to cruise again. I also make a living in safety oversight of anotner form of transportation in the US that does have direct and inclusive overisght here in the US and those two sides of me co stantly compete for the last 9 months since my last voyage. That being said heres the cold hard truth. 

 

1.  Rates are on the rise again nationwide. Growing toward March levels again. No sign of a level off

 

2.  An administration with far more impactful and hands on approach has just won an election. 

 

3.  Framework for a Phased return is very very cumbersome. When levels were low it would have been difficult, now that levels and spead is high again, it will be darn near impossible. 

 

4.  Vaccination (effective) is the only hope on the horizon to mitigate this down to a level that can truly promote resumption of “normal”. That timeline is realistically April at best at this point for the general public. 

 

5.  Cheng said it right folks. In Safety Management Systems approach to safety mitigation of risk, resources should be invested in known risk, and that determination of risk shall be deiven by data. Carnival Corporation and its subsidiaries have repeatedly demonstrated a reckless disregard for environmental safety in the interest of business factors. Not once but twice. The data is there and, in SMS this repetitive nature of a blatent and known disregard for safety, and a lack of a compliant attitude shows by data, that otber aspects of the operation can be i question, problem is, other than what the USCG inspects, the rest is not regulated or given oversight by the US Govt. What is given ovwrsight is CDC Disease control measures. Therefore, it is warranted to believe that, based on the past non compliant history of this operator, that there is concern for compliance. More verify and less trust in the ‘trust and verify’ compliance model of safety oversight. Now, thats the past, and thats one operator. Only further data will show any more widespread concern and there is none at this time. So in summary, Cheng’s comments are warranted not by opiniom, but by safety models and a syatem safety approach to safety culture. 

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5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

 

Pretty sure there's a qualifying statement in there "if the scientists recommend it".  I have not seen where either Fauci or Redfield have advocated a shutdown, in fact in August, Fauci said we could weather the virus without a shutdown, if we followed precautions.  Haven't seen anything from either on a shutdown since August.  I don't see many scientists shouting for a total shutdown, more like bans on large gatherings and dense locations like bars.

 

Lol, disregard my previous post which I posted before scrolling down and seeing this post. @chengkp75"beat me to the punch".

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1 hour ago, BoundForSea said:

4.  Vaccination (effective) is the only hope on the horizon to mitigate this down to a level that can truly promote resumption of “normal”. That timeline is realistically April at best at this point for the general public. 

 

This has been my guess for awhile now -> a safe & effective vaccine available by April 2021.

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1 hour ago, BoundForSea said:

Ok my turn. This theead has my head spinning. If you have followed any of my posts Im the one that wants to be first in line to cruise again. I also make a living in safety oversight of anotner form of transportation in the US that does have direct and inclusive overisght here in the US and those two sides of me co stantly compete for the last 9 months since my last voyage. That being said heres the cold hard truth. 

 

1.  Rates are on the rise again nationwide. Growing toward March levels again. No sign of a level off  Infection rates, or cases, have no relative impact on decision making in November of 2020; it is about fatalities and those at risk of death from infection.  All of the testing and media pandemic hysteria had its purpose and it will change.  It is a total waste of medical and financial resources to test college kids and local schools that have outbreaks (some as little as a single student) to be testing over and over and over.  The mortality rate is a fraction of the March-May rates, and it is not clear that such are "excess mortalities" due to Covid.

 

2.  An administration with far more impactful and hands on approach has just won an election.   How would one know such?

 

3.  Framework for a Phased return is very very cumbersome. When levels were low it would have been difficult, now that levels and spead is high again, it will be darn near impossible.  Agreed, especially from USA ports (i.e., that was the OP purpose of the thread that spins heads).

 

4.  Vaccination (effective) is the only hope on the horizon to mitigate this down to a level that can truly promote resumption of “normal”. That timeline is realistically April at best at this point for the general public.   For cases, irrelevant.  For deaths, likely very important.  Vaccine efficacy rates will be low, expectedly.  Therapeutics continue to improve as well as medical management.  Notice the lack of cries for ventilators?  Remarkable, other breathing aids have been introduced and simple solutions like side to side body positioning versus on back have made for more successes.

 

5.  Cheng said it right folks. In Safety Management Systems approach to safety mitigation of risk, resources should be invested in known risk, and that determination of risk shall be deiven by data. Carnival Corporation and its subsidiaries have repeatedly demonstrated a reckless disregard for environmental safety in the interest of business factors. Not once but twice. The data is there and, in SMS this repetitive nature of a blatent and known disregard for safety, and a lack of a compliant attitude shows by data, that otber aspects of the operation can be i question, problem is, other than what the USCG inspects, the rest is not regulated or given oversight by the US Govt. What is given ovwrsight is CDC Disease control measures. Therefore, it is warranted to believe that, based on the past non compliant history of this operator, that there is concern for compliance. More verify and less trust in the ‘trust and verify’ compliance model of safety oversight. Now, thats the past, and thats one operator. Only further data will show any more widespread concern and there is none at this time. So in summary, Cheng’s comments are warranted not by opiniom, but by safety models and a syatem safety approach to safety culture.   No, (he is) not, not at all.  The environmental issues with Carnival did not cause Covid 19 on the Princess ships in Asia relied upon the USA CDC as the premise for its draconian regulatory bloviation.  When the government states it's here to help, take a step back and when there is an exposed axe to grind do the same.  Or, as the OP and thread lead, consider the simple cruise line assessment to reduce the reliance and % dependence on USA ports for Caribbean cruises.  And no, passengers do not need to fly to Florida then fly to close Caribbean islands; just fly direct, create demand, and flights will increase, pre and post cruise hotel and resort plans will increase and a new balance is enjoyed.

 

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28 minutes ago, Formula280SS said:

Or, as the OP and thread lead, consider the simple cruise line assessment to reduce the reliance and % dependence on USA ports for Caribbean cruises.

 

Again, respectfully disagree. Cruise lines will not reduce the reliance and % dependence on USA ports, especially Miami. The U.S. is too lucrative a market for them. Why do you think the major cruise lines (CCL, NCL & RCL) have built brand new terminals in Miami? They're not going anywhere.

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1 minute ago, farmersfight said:

 

Again, respectfully disagree. Cruise lines will not reduce the reliance and % dependence on USA ports, especially Miami. The U.S. is too lucrative a market for them. Why do you think the major cruise lines (CCL, NCL & RCL) have built brand new terminals in Miami? They're not going anywhere.

 

NP.

 

IMO, they are wise if they are assessing such.  Time will tell.  Yes, the US, and don't overlook the Canadian, market is lucrative; but a Caribbean departure port for air passengers is really not a factor.  For driving passengers, yes.  It was not recommended to 'abandon USA Florida ports for Caribbean cruises; just consider reducing the % dependence and reliance on such.

 

Regarding the investments in the ports, IMO sunk costs (and in the millions).  Agreed, the terminals aren't going anywhere; unless a line moves to co-opt and/or co-own its facilities with others or similar. 

 

The billions per month while closed (part of such being USA ports and especially the Caribbean), and the apparent ability of non-USA countries and ports to "make it work" even during Covid, makes the referenced assessment of investing mere millions in capable and welcoming alternate Caribbean ports seem sensible as mitigation of draconian oversight and regulatory (and poli-social and inequality) obsession and objection.

 

Again, NP.  

 

 

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1 hour ago, Formula280SS said:

 

NP.

 

IMO, they are wise if they are assessing such.  Time will tell.  Yes, the US, and don't overlook the Canadian, market is lucrative; but a Caribbean departure port for air passengers is really not a factor.  For driving passengers, yes.  It was not recommended to 'abandon USA Florida ports for Caribbean cruises; just consider reducing the % dependence and reliance on such.

 

Regarding the investments in the ports, IMO sunk costs (and in the millions).  Agreed, the terminals aren't going anywhere; unless a line moves to co-opt and/or co-own its facilities with others or similar. 

 

The billions per month while closed (part of such being USA ports and especially the Caribbean), and the apparent ability of non-USA countries and ports to "make it work" even during Covid, makes the referenced assessment of investing mere millions in capable and welcoming alternate Caribbean ports seem sensible as mitigation of draconian oversight and regulatory (and poli-social and inequality) obsession and objection.

 

Again, NP.  

 

 

 

Thanks, I definitely respect your opinion. As yes, our northern neighbors in the Great White North (Canada). I agree, Canadians are avid cruisers as well (right @All-ready2cruise?). Thanks for clarifying that you did not mean to abandon U.S. Florida ports - I may have taken it that way.

 

In a way, the cruise lines have reduced the % dependence and reliance on Florida ports (specifically) by "home porting" some of their ships in other U.S. ports (i.e. Galveston, New Orleans, Baltimore, NYC, Boston, LA, Seattle). I guess a situation similar to what you describe might be NCL's Epic that is home ported in San Juan, PR. Off the top of my head, I don't know of other cruise lines home porting out of San Juan but I bet both RCL & CCL do.

 

I'm not too sure about your statement, "the apparent ability of non-USA countries and ports to "make it work" even during Covid,". Europe (especially Italy) and Med cruises come to mind as I believe they have had to shut it back down over there. This virus is definitely insidious.

 

Re your statement, "welcoming alternate Caribbean ports seem sensible as mitigation of draconian oversight and regulatory (and poli-social and inequality) obsession and objection.", I think you are referring to the CDC? My take is that the CDC initially issued its "No Sail Order" (NSO) to expire Feb 2021 but then were over-ruled by the Trump administration who didn't want the NSO to go that long. So in this case, the CDC's oversight & regulatory action was reduced and made more cruise industry "friendly". More recently, the CDC has issued their Conditional Sailing Order which now gives the cruise lines a clear road map to restart some semblance of cruising again (albeit with reduced capacity and many other prerequisites). IMO the actions of the CDC are being done in an abundance of caution wrt this potentially deadly virus (and what was learned from the Diamond Princess at the outset of the pandemic; how contagious this virus is in a cruise ship environment).

 

I'm not sure how/if the election (and new Administration) will affect what the CDC is currently requiring of the cruise lines, but I think as @chengkp75has mentioned, the CDC is moving to make these requirements more permanent (i.e. regulations), so I don't think the new Administration will change the current direction (i.e. by having the CDC reissue another No Sail Order).

 

Anyway, for me (and I'm sure many other cruisers here on CC as well as those cruisers not on CC) it's fingers crossed 🤞 for a safe & effective vaccine by spring or summer 2021. Perhaps then cruising can get back to "normal". Personally, I won't cruise until there is a vaccine because dealing with all the covid restrictions and requirements (i.e. masks, social distancing, no pools/hot tubs, no spa, no buffet, etc) would not be my idea of fun and/or relaxation on a cruise. The overall reduced passenger capacity on board might be nice though...

 

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3 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Thanks, I definitely respect your opinion. As yes, our northern neighbors in the Great White North (Canada). I agree, Canadians are avid cruisers as well (right @All-ready2cruise?). Thanks for clarifying that you did not mean to abandon U.S. Florida ports - I may have taken it that way.

 

 

 

@farmersfight, yes, there are some very avid Canadian cruisers. I really wish there were more  Canadian departure ports.  I'm not surprised that there aren't, especially now. 

 

I also think the time has passed that NCL will offer the special Cdn dollar at par, however, many Canadians understand and respect the difference between the USD & CAD when booking a cruise.  

 

It's amazing what a VPN can do when researching true cruise pricing. Research, research, research!!!

 

I will continue to research cruise prices on both sites (USA & CDN).  

I love to cruise.  

Cheers 🥂 

 

 

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12 hours ago, farmersfight said:

 

Thanks, I definitely respect your opinion. As yes, our northern neighbors in the Great White North (Canada). I agree, Canadians are avid cruisers as well (right @All-ready2cruise?). Thanks for clarifying that you did not mean to abandon U.S. Florida ports - I may have taken it that way.

 

In a way, the cruise lines have reduced the % dependence and reliance on Florida ports (specifically) by "home porting" some of their ships in other U.S. ports (i.e. Galveston, New Orleans, Baltimore, NYC, Boston, LA, Seattle). I guess a situation similar to what you describe might be NCL's Epic that is home ported in San Juan, PR. Off the top of my head, I don't know of other cruise lines home porting out of San Juan but I bet both RCL & CCL do.

 

I'm not too sure about your statement, "the apparent ability of non-USA countries and ports to "make it work" even during Covid,". Europe (especially Italy) and Med cruises come to mind as I believe they have had to shut it back down over there. This virus is definitely insidious.

 

Re your statement, "welcoming alternate Caribbean ports seem sensible as mitigation of draconian oversight and regulatory (and poli-social and inequality) obsession and objection.", I think you are referring to the CDC? My take is that the CDC initially issued its "No Sail Order" (NSO) to expire Feb 2021 but then were over-ruled by the Trump administration who didn't want the NSO to go that long. So in this case, the CDC's oversight & regulatory action was reduced and made more cruise industry "friendly". More recently, the CDC has issued their Conditional Sailing Order which now gives the cruise lines a clear road map to restart some semblance of cruising again (albeit with reduced capacity and many other prerequisites). IMO the actions of the CDC are being done in an abundance of caution wrt this potentially deadly virus (and what was learned from the Diamond Princess at the outset of the pandemic; how contagious this virus is in a cruise ship environment).

 

I'm not sure how/if the election (and new Administration) will affect what the CDC is currently requiring of the cruise lines, but I think as @chengkp75has mentioned, the CDC is moving to make these requirements more permanent (i.e. regulations), so I don't think the new Administration will change the current direction (i.e. by having the CDC reissue another No Sail Order).

 

Anyway, for me (and I'm sure many other cruisers here on CC as well as those cruisers not on CC) it's fingers crossed 🤞 for a safe & effective vaccine by spring or summer 2021. Perhaps then cruising can get back to "normal". Personally, I won't cruise until there is a vaccine because dealing with all the covid restrictions and requirements (i.e. masks, social distancing, no pools/hot tubs, no spa, no buffet, etc) would not be my idea of fun and/or relaxation on a cruise. The overall reduced passenger capacity on board might be nice though...

 

 

Nice dialogue, it's what makes CruiseCritic mostly such a informative experience.

 

Yep, no impetus to close US ports, just reduce reliance specifically for the heavy Caribbean cruise load.

 

Re: the Canadians, yep, the Canadian are big cruisers, and lots of fun.  We mostly met Toronto cruisers, a lot of them, and they have been really ideal passengers to sail with.  And, lest we forget, we share (79% of) the North American continent (in a list of 23 total independent countries/states); that's why I try to use USA versus the term Americans.

 

Re: the "make it work during Covid," I am referring to Europe with TUI and MSC and to Dream in Asia (which is also picking up additional lines).  The difference in the "protocols" on these cruises is like night and day compared to the Princess ships in January and February of 2020 and my angst with the CDC is their biased reliance on the latter and intentional (IMO) ignorance of the former.  It is realistic and fair to say that a cruise on the in use protocols, even enhanced by ships now emerging with entire redesigned air systems (MSC Seashore) and onboard Covid 19 PCR testing capability (Viking Star),  can be safer environments than long-term care and medical facilities.  In referencing "safer" the editorial is on "those at risk of death from Covid 19 infection" and not the "number of cases."

 

Re: the election, if it stands, will (IMO) likely see the CDC pull the plug back out of the cruise lines in part for retribution for cruise lines going above the CDC regarding the continued extension of the No Sail Order and part for the appearance of political correctness.  In this regard, one must recall the loathing that was done during the 2008- economic issues when "you can't go to Disney World" was the mantra of an across the board anti-capitalism and anti-wealth sentiment.  It has to be considered that having the ability to cruise is something one has chosen from working, earning or possessing a certain amount of required wealth.  Society sometimes gyrates to disdain for those who do such, as well as 'go to WDW, have a big house, have a second home, take family vacations, have a nice car, etc.  It is what it is.  Back to the 2021 political, economic and health factors, I expect the cruise industry to be supported by Florida and Miami administrations, Florida Congressional seats, and the port workers; and be massively opposed and obstructed by everyone else up the ladder of regulatory agencies and elected officials and the MSM.  This could be altered if, in hiding, the drug "complex" has withheld the likely arrival of highly reliable efficacy of a vaccine for other purposes.

 

Re: masks, social distancing, no pools/hot tubs, no spa, no buffet, I was "there" pre-Covid.  I hated it when hacking and sinus draining passengers walked right through registration after signing off as not sick and the cruise lines just ignoring such.  I hated it when passengers would get into the hot tubs without using the available shower first.  The buffet, nope, generally not for a decade; if on occasion, tons of napkins for the tongs, 100% cleaning of the table and then setting napkins to cover, and pre and post hand sanitizer and washing.  Generally never use an elevator.

 

 

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19 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

 

 

but a Caribbean departure port for air passengers is really not a factor. 

 

 

 Disagree with this one. Right now I can book a flight with my preferred airline to ft. lauderdale. I can get there in less than 3 hours on a ticket that costs $231. I cannot fly to barbados on my preferred airline. I can find one flight there that takes 8 hours and costs $800. That would be a relevant factor to me in where I book out of. We almost exclusively cruise out of florida for the very reason that I can get non-stops there at affordable prices. 

 

A carribean departure also excludes us passengers who don't have passports. I don't know what percentage of the market that makes up. But it could be a hurdle in making a non-us caribbean departure port viable.

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7 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

 

Nice dialogue, it's what makes CruiseCritic mostly such a informative experience.

 

Yep, no impetus to close US ports, just reduce reliance specifically for the heavy Caribbean cruise load.

 

Re: the Canadians, yep, the Canadian are big cruisers, and lots of fun.  We mostly met Toronto cruisers, a lot of them, and they have been really ideal passengers to sail with.  And, lest we forget, we share (79% of) the North American continent (in a list of 23 total independent countries/states); that's why I try to use USA versus the term Americans.

 

Re: the "make it work during Covid," I am referring to Europe with TUI and MSC and to Dream in Asia (which is also picking up additional lines).  The difference in the "protocols" on these cruises is like night and day compared to the Princess ships in January and February of 2020 and my angst with the CDC is their biased reliance on the latter and intentional (IMO) ignorance of the former.  It is realistic and fair to say that a cruise on the in use protocols, even enhanced by ships now emerging with entire redesigned air systems (MSC Seashore) and onboard Covid 19 PCR testing capability (Viking Star),  can be safer environments than long-term care and medical facilities.  In referencing "safer" the editorial is on "those at risk of death from Covid 19 infection" and not the "number of cases."

 

Re: the election, if it stands, will (IMO) likely see the CDC pull the plug back out of the cruise lines in part for retribution for cruise lines going above the CDC regarding the continued extension of the No Sail Order and part for the appearance of political correctness.  In this regard, one must recall the loathing that was done during the 2008- economic issues when "you can't go to Disney World" was the mantra of an across the board anti-capitalism and anti-wealth sentiment.  It has to be considered that having the ability to cruise is something one has chosen from working, earning or possessing a certain amount of required wealth.  Society sometimes gyrates to disdain for those who do such, as well as 'go to WDW, have a big house, have a second home, take family vacations, have a nice car, etc.  It is what it is.  Back to the 2021 political, economic and health factors, I expect the cruise industry to be supported by Florida and Miami administrations, Florida Congressional seats, and the port workers; and be massively opposed and obstructed by everyone else up the ladder of regulatory agencies and elected officials and the MSM.  This could be altered if, in hiding, the drug "complex" has withheld the likely arrival of highly reliable efficacy of a vaccine for other purposes.

 

Re: masks, social distancing, no pools/hot tubs, no spa, no buffet, I was "there" pre-Covid.  I hated it when hacking and sinus draining passengers walked right through registration after signing off as not sick and the cruise lines just ignoring such.  I hated it when passengers would get into the hot tubs without using the available shower first.  The buffet, nope, generally not for a decade; if on occasion, tons of napkins for the tongs, 100% cleaning of the table and then setting napkins to cover, and pre and post hand sanitizer and washing.  Generally never use an elevator.

 

 

Thanks for your thoughtful reply and additional info. Also, thanks @All-ready2cruise.

 

7 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

Re: the Canadians, yep, the Canadian are big cruisers, and lots of fun.  We mostly met Toronto cruisers, a lot of them, and they have been really ideal passengers to sail with. 

 

Agree totally! I think I met a group of Canadians on a previous cruise and they definitely were a lot of fun. I liked Canadians so much that I even married one (she was born in Hartford, CT but parents live in Quebec). Alas, I'm now divorced (long story) hence why I am looking hard at solo cruising especially now that I am recently retired (I have all the time in the world now).

 

7 hours ago, Formula280SS said:

This could be altered if, in hiding, the drug "complex" has withheld the likely arrival of highly reliable efficacy of a vaccine for other purposes.

 

Ironic that you said this because have you heard the good news today? The leading company in the vaccine development, Pfizer, just announced that the vaccine that they are close to having ready has shown to be over 90% effective. That's great news! Also, I even saw a report on TV that distribution of this vaccine may commence by the end of this month!

 

Hmmm...this vaccine news is so promising that it may be time to actually book a cruise for early/mid 2021.😃

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4 hours ago, sanger727 said:

 Disagree with this one. Right now I can book a flight with my preferred airline to ft. lauderdale. I can get there in less than 3 hours on a ticket that costs $231. I cannot fly to barbados on my preferred airline. I can find one flight there that takes 8 hours and costs $800. That would be a relevant factor to me in where I book out of. We almost exclusively cruise out of florida for the very reason that I can get non-stops there at affordable prices. 

 

A carribean departure also excludes us passengers who don't have passports. I don't know what percentage of the market that makes up. But it could be a hurdle in making a non-us caribbean departure port viable.

 

Yeah, the flights might be different depending on island.  Boston, New York (Tri), DC etc. to Nassau RT nonstops pretty reasonable.  But that's all I looked at.

 

Never thought about the passport consideration.  Thanks.

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  • 2 months later...
On 11/8/2020 at 3:54 PM, Formula280SS said:

 

NP.

 

IMO, they are wise if they are assessing such.  Time will tell.  Yes, the US, and don't overlook the Canadian, market is lucrative; but a Caribbean departure port for air passengers is really not a factor.  For driving passengers, yes.  It was not recommended to 'abandon USA Florida ports for Caribbean cruises; just consider reducing the % dependence and reliance on such.

 

Regarding the investments in the ports, IMO sunk costs (and in the millions).  Agreed, the terminals aren't going anywhere; unless a line moves to co-opt and/or co-own its facilities with others or similar. 

 

The billions per month while closed (part of such being USA ports and especially the Caribbean), and the apparent ability of non-USA countries and ports to "make it work" even during Covid, makes the referenced assessment of investing mere millions in capable and welcoming alternate Caribbean ports seem sensible as mitigation of draconian oversight and regulatory (and poli-social and inequality) obsession and objection.

 

Again, NP.  

 

 

 

Well, it's been a while and now we are here again.

 

Or still.  😟

 

Looks like some cruise industry analysts are now at the point of the cruise lines consideration of moving Caribbean cruise to Caribbean island departure ports.

 

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/environmental-health/timeline-north-americas-cruise-restart-keeps-extending-alaska-doubt

 

"Starting in the Caribbean islands instead?

 

Given the challenges stateside, B&A wonders if the North American industry would be better off homeporting ships from Caribbean ports and not using US ports until coronavirus is no longer a public health emergency. Places like Barbados, Antigua, Dominican Republic and Aruba may provide a way forward in the short-term, B&A suggested."

 

 

"Vaccination an advance but ...

 

Vaccine distribution is a great advance, however the CDC probably is so focused on President Biden's goal of 100m shots in 100 days, plus addressing the new virus variants, that cruise ship travel is a distant concern — if any concern at all now.

'I don't see CDC pivoting on this until those numbers are reached ... CDC won't be focused on cruise for some time,' an operations expert said."

 

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