Just in case anyone had doubts about whom Celebrity are targeting with their "Always Included" &" New Luxury" branding

[ECCruise]

16 hours ago, LGW59 said:

we just want our annual cruise vacation that we spend handsomely on regardless of "status".  

Aye, and there is the rub.

Your "annual cruise vacation."  One week?  Maybe two?

 

We cruised 9 times in the 12 months before COVID (last sailing in March).  About 150 days total.  5 times in suites, 4 times in upper range balcony.

 

Even if you vastly overpay for your suite (we, BTW, didn't) you can't replace that revenue.  

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

17 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

You have a misconception about older people.  Since I retired, I am spending much more on cruises than I ever did while working.  I'm also booking more cruises per year.

 

I'm booking higher categories and willing to upgrade to business class air without using points.  I booked Air Canada Business class to Athens next year for an Azamara P1 aft cabin cruise.  I did book my first suite on Celebrity this year.  Now I'm wondering if I made a mistake. So if I'm not good enough for Celebrity because I'm older, no prob. I don't have difficulty spending my money on their competitors.

 

I do like the Oceania and Azamara cruises I've sailed. I think I might even try Viking.  Guess Celebrity is now for the Gen Xers who believe Celebrity is the best at any price.

 

Yup.  Retired.  Have plenty of money to spend on cruising.  I had 59 nights booked this year, including 28 in the penthouse.  If they want to kick me to the curb, fine--there are other lines out there.

[LGW59]

2 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Yup.  Retired.  Have plenty of money to spend on cruising.  I had 59 nights booked this year, including 28 in the penthouse.  If they want to kick me to the curb, fine--there are other lines out there.

That is one heck of a lot of cruises and potential revenue, or possibly lot revenue.  Just curious, did you have refundable deposits or did you have to convert to FCC.  I had 3 booked and 2 were refundable, one had to be a FCC, which I applied to an Aug. 2021 cruise.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

6 hours ago, Airbalancer said:

It all about bang per dollar 

if the price point is at one that I think is fair , I will book with Celebrity , if not I will look at RCL 

than other cruise  lines 

I could never figure why would you book a penthouse on Celebrity instead of booking on a small luxurious cruise line for same money 

Guess you've never stayed in the PH on an M class ship.

[Happy Cruiser 6143]

6 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

That is one heck of a lot of cruises and potential revenue, or possibly lot revenue.  Just curious, did you have refundable deposits or did you have to convert to FCC.  I had 3 booked and 2 were refundable, one had to be a FCC, which I applied to an Aug. 2021 cruise.

All were refundable.  FCCs are a joke.

[emmas gran]

3 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Yup.  Retired.  Have plenty of money to spend on cruising.  I had 59 nights booked this year, including 28 in the penthouse.  If they want to kick me to the curb, fine--there are other lines out there.

I am with you we typically spend 6 to 8 weeks cruising per year 28 days and smaller 10 to 14 days are or were normal pre COVID. I doubt that the new required clientele have the income to do this. Retired very early and took 5 cruises in the first year of retirement .

 

[Orator]

6 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

 

Yup.  Retired.  Have plenty of money to spend on cruising.  I had 59 nights booked this year, including 28 in the penthouse.  If they want to kick me to the curb, fine--there are other lines out there.

Really know how you feel. I usually have more than 100 days per year, mainly on AQ. Think that they are maling an error in judgment, but that their business. I've had good past experiences, but more than willing to take my dollar elsewhere. 

 

[terrydtx]

A lot of this new branding towards the younger crowd may be because X knows they have the Boomers already and they are wanting to expand their reach. As far as mainstream cruise companies there are not many alternatives to X for us Boomers. Holland America has continued to market to the much older retirees and their loyal followers are dying off every day. After my last couple of cruises  with HAL with the daily excitement revolving around the  motorized scooter races after 8pm, I realize I am way too young for them anymore. HAL ships are mostly dead quiet after 11pm.

Edited November 15, 2020 by terrydtx

[LGW59]

12 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

A lot of this new branding towards the younger crowd may be because X knows they have the Boomers already and they are wanting to expand their reach. As far as mainstream cruise companies there are not many alternatives to X for us Boomers. Holland America has continued to market to the much older retirees and their loyal followers are dying off every day. After my last couple of cruises  with HAL with the daily excitement revolving around the  motorized scooter races after 8pm, I realize I am way too young for them anymore. HAL ships are mostly dead quiet after 11pm.

Totally agree and as a boomer, I have no intention leaving Celebrity.  They are IMO, very wise to further their market outreach, it worked with my 2 kids, 26yo & 32yo, who both have very solid incomes.  We boomers will not be sailing forever and again IMO, they are looking to introduce their product to a new generation.  

[Orator]

10 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

A lot of this new branding towards the younger crowd may be because X knows they have the Boomers already and they are wanting to expand their reach. As far as mainstream cruise companies there are not many alternatives to X for us Boomers. Holland America has continued to market to the much older retirees and their loyal followers are dying off every day. After my last couple of cruises  with HAL with the daily excitement revolving around the  motorized scooter races after 8pm, I realize I am way too young for them anymore. HAL ships are mostly dead quiet after 11pm.

Might be a mistake to assume that they have any group hooked. I know many formally loyal cruisers who are looking at other lines. Companies get into trouble when they lose focus on their base. Stick to what's working and improve your product. 

[K.T.B.]

3 hours ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Hey, we're in our late 60s and as long as X continues to have great evening shows and plenty of things to do on sea days, they can target anyone they like.

 

Agreed 1,000%.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

38 minutes ago, Happy Cruiser 6143 said:

Guess you've never stayed in the PH on an M class ship.

🙄

[Ex-Airbalancer]

1 minute ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Agreed 1,000%.

They have great evening shows 😱, I guess I missed that our last cruise 😉

[cangelmd]

21 hours ago, LGW59 said:

Gen-Xer's do have a good deal of disposable income, and are willing to spend it.  According to The Points Guy, avg cost for a family of four at WDW:  moderate budget = $5717 for 5 days, $1143pd (not including airfare), and for a luxury budget, $8154, $1630pd (again no airfare).  I realize a cruise and WDW are vastly different.  Maybe they (their consultants) have calculated that some of these parents want a me + a kids vacation.  Remains to be seen.

Confession - I haven’t read all the responses - I’m not sure trying to attract families is the answer. Too many families would prefer RCL for the activities and many Royal ships have cabin arrangements that are better for families and especially for multi- generation trips. Not to mention a slightly lower price point - who knows where any of that will be post-Covid. My children, who are now new parents in their own right, would likely have enjoyed Celeb as grade school, middle school, because the kids club activities were some of their fav things on the cruises we took when they were that age - they would have liked fewer kids, more attention 

[Host Jazzbeau]

46 minutes ago, terrydtx said:

A lot of this new branding towards the younger crowd may be because X knows [thinks] they have the Boomers already and they are wanting to expand their reach. As far as mainstream cruise companies there are not many alternatives to X for us Boomers.

One word:  Viking

 

It's what Celebrity would be if they had kept up to date with their original vision and kept up their standards.

[tert333]

8 minutes ago, Orator said:

Might be a mistake to assume that they have any group hooked. I know many formally loyal cruisers who are looking at other lines. Companies get into trouble when they lose focus on their base. Stick to what's working and improve your product. 

I agree with you that when any company makes an assumption on their client base by ignoring the needs of their customer, the customer will find other options.    I am not sure if that is the case here.  I guess we will find out as the roll out this new strategy. 

 

However, as a boomer, I think I have lots of different options.  I have always wanted to do River Cruises which is gaining a big appeal.   There are walking tours, all inclusive resorts.   Last year, we flew into Portugal, stayed at the major cities(Lisbon and Porto) and then rented a car to drive around.  We saw things that we would not have been able to see on a cruise.  

 

There will be many people who are done cruising for awhile, if not permanently.   Companies such as Winnebago are selling more motor homes than they ever sold before.  Brunswick Corp, which focuses on selling boats, can not build enough.   Once people develop other interests, especially if they invest a lot of money on them, some of their investments in vacations will change.

 

I think the timing of launching an all-inclusive only pricing model is bad.  If they had much more demand than supply, it would be a good time to do that.   However, I do not think that is the case now.   If it was me, I would get the ships up and running and generating revenue first. 

 

 

 

[LGW59]

9 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

One word:  Viking

 

It's what Celebrity would be if they had kept up to date with their original vision and kept up their standards.

I have read many disturbing reviews of Viking as it pertains to cancellations and refunds to their customers.  Not one or two, many, on Consumer Affairs, in a few instances, Viking responded on the site and were as evasive as they could be.  This has not been my experience at all with Celebrity.  I will def be sticking with what I know.

[Pinboy]

1 hour ago, terrydtx said:

motorized scooter races after 8pm, I realize I am way too young for them anymore. HAL ships are mostly dead quiet after 11pm.

Hey Partner-- Not so fast--- Celebrity ain't far behind.

[ScubesDad]

22 hours ago, AtlantaCruiser72 said:

The below slide was on a travel agent webinar and describes who they will be "obsessively"  focusing on and marketing to with their new "Always Included" pricing structure and "New Luxury" branding.  It's Gen-X and they are not ashamed to admit that Baby Boomers are no longer the core demographic they want to attract or retain!  It's all about the $$$$, and they see Gen-X as more profitable per guest/day than any other cohort.

 

 

 

I think everyone is getting overly concerned about the switch in marketing focus. When we first started cruising, 20 years ago, the definition of the "Ideal Guest" detailed above was spot on for my wife and I. At that time we were in our early forties, well educated, financially stable, tech savvy etc....and like the Gen-X's now are, we were approaching our prime earning years.  The boomers who will cruise have already started, they will have a very difficult time converting a boomer to cruising at this stage of their life. It is time to attract the next generation.  However, as previously mentioned it is doubtful that the new cruisers will be able to accommodate more than one cruise per year, there will be some who may be able to squeeze in two.

I feel the above comment, "It's Gen-X and they are not ashamed to admit that Baby Boomers are no longer the core demographic they want to attract or retain!" may be somewhat of an exaggeration as it would be totally irrational to not retain your existing client base, possibly a focus on retaining your most profitable existing clients, i.e. the ones with the highest total onboard spend per day, is forthcoming.

I believe this is marketing hype in a push to open up a new client market, just as they have been doing for the past few years with the new ships and the revolution plans.

 

Keep Calm and Sail on.....

 

[ChucktownSteve]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

One word:  Viking

 

It's what Celebrity would be if they had kept up to date with their original vision and kept up their standards.

 

Host Jazzbeau,

 

Did you notice when the divergence began occurring?  I believe it was five years from RCL's purchase when the Chandris contract expired to keep things the same.  X was the original version. Celebrity with the hollow X, IMO, is where the standards began changing from the customer first to profits first. That's the reason Queen Lisa was transferred from RCL to Celebrity; to chop expenses which is what she excelled at over on the RCL line.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ChucktownSteve

[Ken the cruiser]

10 minutes ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Host Jazzbeau,

 

Did you notice when the divergence began occurring?  I believe it was five years from RCL's purchase when the Chandris contract expired to keep things the same.  X was the original version. Celebrity with the hollow X, IMO, is where the standards began changing from the customer first to profits first. That's the reason Queen Lisa was transferred from RCL to Celebrity; to chop expenses which is what she excelled at with RCL

We started periodically cruising with X in 2013 and haven't noticed that much change on the 7 cruises weve sailed with them since. All of which BTW have been on S class ships. If I may ask, what was Celebrity cruises like before then that was so much different than now?

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, LGW59 said:

I have read many disturbing reviews of Viking as it pertains to cancellations and refunds to their customers.  Not one or two, many, on Consumer Affairs, in a few instances, Viking responded on the site and were as evasive as they could be.  This has not been my experience at all with Celebrity.  I will def be sticking with what I know.

 

As Host of the River Cruising forum, I have been following the refund situation for all the river cruise lines.  Viking seems to be at the top of the bunch with fair, fast refunds.  I don't like their policy of demanding full payment over a year in advance, but at least they give the money back quickly when they cancel a cruise.

[ChucktownSteve]

38 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

We started periodically cruising with X in 2013 and haven't noticed that much change on the 7 cruises weve sailed with them since. All of which BTW have been on S class ships. If I may ask, what was Celebrity cruises like before then that was so much different than now?

 

The caliber of service was greater as was the food quality and music/entertainment diversity.   You used to get in the MDR what they now serve in the paid specialty restaurants.

 

I went to an onboard steak seminar. They admitted the lower cuts of beef now go to the MDR while the far superior cuts go to the specialty restaurants where the guest pays for the regular included meal plus the specialty surcharge.  The better grades used to be served in the MDR.  A few years ago the buffets changed from carving stations to a lot lower grade of meats served in dutch ovens and swimming in "gravy." 

 

There were cabin attendants and their assistants handling about 12 cabins.  A few years ago, Celebrity did away with the assistants and made everyone cabin attendants.  They were given more cabins (I believe 24) to do by themselves.  Thus the level of service diminished from what it used to be.

 

There used to be a lot of live music in various venues all over the ship.  The shows were outside troupes who did varying entertainment.  Then they reduced the number of musicians that played and tried to fill the S class ship atrium's with blaring DJ music for the youngsters (aka Millennial's). Celebrity fired the outside troupes and brought the shows in house.  That's when I feel many of the shows became lame trying to be edgy.

 

The changes were made incrementally so as most cruisers really didn't notice. My first cruise was in 1984. I've sailed several lines before coming to Celebrity.  Some included NCL, Carnival and Admiral.   I sailed Celebrity Mercury twice before she was sold in 2011.  I've sailed the M and S classes.  I've also sailed Oceania and Azamara.

 

The Celebrity changes can be compared to boiling a frog.  You put him in cold water and gradually increase the heat.  He doesn't realize he going to be boiled until it's too late.

 

I understand they need to cut costs but they're also raising rates at the same time. Every frog cruiser eventually reaches their boiling point.  Some sooner than others.  The elite, elite plus and zenith "loyalty" members seeing the perks evaporate with the new AI are just another straw on the camel's back.  The younger cruisers won't see what the experienced cruisers see.  Thus they won't reach their last straw until many years down the road. That's what Celebrity is counting on.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ChucktownSteve

[Host Jazzbeau]

23 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

We started periodically cruising with X in 2013 and haven't noticed that much change on the 7 cruises weve sailed with them since. All of which BTW have been on S class ships. If I may ask, what was Celebrity cruises like before then that was so much different than now?

 

I never experienced that golden age that @ChucktownSteve has just described [envy].  The downfall I experienced was with the introduction of Edge.  [Although there had been reports of loud music everywhere for some years before that.]

 

Our first Celebrity cruise was in 2012 on Summit – in an Inside cabin with no beverage package – and we loved it.  Food was good, service attentive, with no package I bought wine by the bottle so had an excellent range of choice, entertainment was fresh, and overall ambiance was refined luxury [no loud music everywhere].  Eclipse in 2015 was even better [moving up to a veranda didn't hurt, especially with comfy furniture inside and out].  Constellation in 2016 was the best yet, thanks to a Celebrity Suite and Luminae restaurant. 

 

BUT Edge in 2019 was a disaster:  the cabin is poorly designed and the furniture very uncomfortable, music is too loud everywhere, shows so 'edgy' that we stopped going.  That was our first – and last – taste of LLP's 'new luxury' vibe, and they are planning to renovate all the ships with this bad furniture and the same new shows and loud music.

 

Our most recent cruise was MSC Yacht Club – another great option over Celebrity suite class.  It may be more difficult for non-suite passengers to find a new home, but as Celebrity raises prices there will be comparable deals on some premium/luxury lines.

[ChucktownSteve]

20 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

BUT Edge in 2019 was a disaster:  the cabin is poorly designed and the furniture very uncomfortable, music is too loud everywhere, shows so 'edgy' that we stopped going.  That was our first – and last – taste of LLP's 'new luxury' vibe, and they are planning to renovate all the ships with this bad furniture and the same new shows and loud music.

 

 

 

I'm glad you understand what I was talking about.  Some others here don't. Oh I forgot to mention a couple of Hal cruises too.

 

I had a January 2021 Edge S1 booked but just submitted a L&S to February 2022 in a one deck higher aft suite.  I wanted to experience the E class before casting an opinion. I've eaten in Blu several times but never in Laminae so decided to try it. After all, it's only money to this old fart. lol

 

I really am looking forward to experiencing the Apex. I truly hope I won't be disappointed.  But at least I'll be able to say I tried it.

Edited November 15, 2020 by ChucktownSteve