New vaccine

[Snow Hill]

3 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Indeed. Many of us here will have been involved in various project management schemes. Any such process should identify crucial pinch points at an early stage. It was obvious that a major pinch point would be getting sufficient personnel to administer the vaccines.

So why didn't the government start the whole process 4 or 5 months ago, possibly using some form of refresher course, so that all those who wished to help would now be registered and ready to go! 

If I ran a project the way the government is running this, I would have been fired for incompetence.

I agree I was a Project Manager for 10 years, they seem incapable of managing anything. I heard yesterday that a friends son who is in the forces has been moved to a new base to help manage the logistics of vaccine distribution and setting up of centres, he is quite a senior officer and to take him away from his current role is a significant step. 

[zap99]

48 minutes ago, Eglesbrech said:

I don’t see anyone blaming, simply quoting what is covered in the news. Both companies are saying the same apparently so either they are both not being truthful, the government are not or as is usually the case the truth is in the middle somewhere.
 

Personally I would be delighted if there is no supply issue. 

It would appear that the 4 chief medical officers all said the same thing. Coincidence or not, important point us that the manufacturers say there is no issue. All Jabbed by Easter.

[zap99]

16 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Indeed. Many of us here will have been involved in various project management schemes. Any such process should identify crucial pinch points at an early stage. It was obvious that a major pinch point would be getting sufficient personnel to administer the vaccines.

So why didn't the government start the whole process 4 or 5 months ago, possibly using some form of refresher course, so that all those who wished to help would now be registered and ready to go! 

If I ran a project the way the government is running this, I would have been fired for incompetence.

Who wrote the list. Government, or NHS ?.I guess it is already an existing list that an NHS employee pulled off the computer. Shall we sack that employee, or just let folk get on with it.

Edited January 2, 2021 by zap99

[Eglesbrech]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

It would appear that the 4 chief medical officers all said the same thing. Coincidence or not, important point us that the manufacturers say there is no issue. All Jabbed by Easter.

Chief medical officers are civil servants and will usually say what they are told to by their political masters. There have been some honourable exceptions in this pandemic, those brave enough have given their actual opinion on occasion.
 

Easter, yes hopefully. I think we all need some hope right now that this half life will end and we can get back to living properly again.

[Jennizor]

Our 87 year old neighbour has his first vaccination two weeks ago. On the morning of his appointment he had sniffles so he rang the doctor to check if he should still go. The doctor said yes. At the vaccination centre, after he had been given the jab, he was told to get a COVID test done. This came back positive. He has just finished his isolation. Previously he had been in almost total isolation. We do his shopping and the only time he had been out was for a blood test a few days earlier. He was there for quite a time and thinks he must have up the virus there. 

[zap99]

15 minutes ago, wowzz said:

Sorry - knowing how to use a fire extinguisher is unimportant in a viral pandemic. 

When the unqualified bloke off the street giving you your jab in the next room sets fire to his matches, knowing where the fire exit is and saying. That way out zap, it quite important to me. Pandemic or not 

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, zap99 said:

When the unqualified bloke off the street giving you your jab in the next room sets fire to his matches, knowing where the fire exit is and saying. That way out zap, it quite important to me. Pandemic or not 

I think you are losing the point a little!

 

[zap99]

39 minutes ago, davecttr said:

I thought we were in the middle of a crisis 🙄

You are quite right, but are you happy with someone off the street jabbing stuff in your arm. Their word that they "done it before guv", should be good enough in a crisis😁

[davecttr]

I am confused, if there are 25 million at risk people and we give 1 million jabs per week after 12 weeks we are going to have to give the second jabs so there will be 12 million  having to wait another 12 weeks before they start to get their first jab.

 

so we need to be jabbing 2 million per week, 1 million first timers and after 12 weeks another 1 million second timers per week as well.

[yorkshirephil]

11 minutes ago, zap99 said:

When the unqualified bloke off the street giving you your jab in the next room sets fire to his matches, knowing where the fire exit is and saying. That way out zap, it quite important to me. Pandemic or not 

So by your logic every person that works in a hospital should have fire extinguisher training. It is no different to most other industries, as long as there are enough people trained to make the place safe.

[zap99]

9 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think you are losing the point a little!

 

Probably. What we don't know is how standard those 21 requirements are. Anyone qualified may already have that certificate. So if 3 if the 21 are unnecessary, does that make much difference?

[davecttr]

6 minutes ago, zap99 said:

You are quite right, but are you happy with someone off the street jabbing stuff in your arm. Their word that they "done it before guv", should be good enough in a crisis😁

Of course not and I am not suggesting it but as we are in a CRISIS do they need to have number 19 given that we are not vaccinating children. Someone has just pulled the list from a file with no thought as to which items are critical. they should be doing their utmost to streamline the process, not covering their backs.

 

'Lions led by Donkeys' comes to mind

[Eglesbrech]

7 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

So by your logic every person that works in a hospital should have fire extinguisher training. It is no different to most other industries, as long as there are enough people trained to make the place safe.

It’s actually a legal requirement.

[Dinglebert]

1 hour ago, wowzz said:

Well, 7, 8 and 9 seem pretty irrelevant.

Don't forget, that many of those volunteering were practising doctors until very recently. 

I can promise you one thing.  No 7 is vital.  I speak as a nurse for over now 35 years who has gone back onto the register to do the vaccines.  My current role is data security.  The people administering the vaccines will have access to clinical systems which means access to peoples health records.  Unless they know what the rules are and what the law is some people will immediately break the law and view records they have no legal right to view. 

[zap99]

3 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

So by your logic every person that works in a hospital should have fire extinguisher training. It is no different to most other industries, as long as there are enough people trained to make the place safe.

No I said pointing out where the fire exit is. Wozz said fire extinguishers. When I was training folk about safety one point was ' Don't touch the fire extinguishers' trained folk di that. Another point was '' that way out '.

Getting a bit silly now, so I agree. Anyone should be approved to stick stuff in your arm.

[tring]

22 minutes ago, wowzz said:

I think you are losing the point a little!

 

 

All hospital staff are required to have a fire lecture once a year as a legal requirement.  I worked within hospital labs for five years from 1992 and was duly sent for my 5 fire lectures, which were held in house by the fire safety officer.  Just a standard timed lecture, usually giving an example of when the beginnings of a fire had started, but people ignored it and that then progressed to a well known disaster with loss of many lives.  Also a few pointers to help prevent fire and use of the right fire extinguishers for the right fire (i.e. not water for electricals).  I would say that is very important for everyone to be aware - the same as on a cruise ship.

 

If you remember recent news from the Manchester areana bombing, a member of staff was aware of the bomber acting strangely, but as it was not part of his "job", he did not act on it.  Would you prefer that, of have some basic safety knowledge as a necessity for staff.  Your post did say that lack of those requirements would need some basic training, presumably a fire lecture in that case, but silly if someone already has some basic training.

 

One of these big vaccination set ups planned in sports halls etc. could easily become a terrorist target or fire could easily start off and be ignored by people who think it is not their job to mention it. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by tring

[Dinglebert]

9 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

So by your logic every person that works in a hospital should have fire extinguisher training. It is no different to most other industries, as long as there are enough people trained to make the place safe.

Your missing the point.  Working in a hospital where you are dealing with people who are in bed and unable to get to a fire exit it is vital that all staff are aware of the fire rules and where the equipment is and how to evacuate people safely is neccesary.  Its not like other industries where people can be responsible for themselves.  Many patients cant.

[Dinglebert]

55 minutes ago, Josy1953 said:

My sister has had it because she is a nurse so front line staff.  No adverse affects.

I've had my first dose. No issues.  Next one was due later this week.  No idea if I will be getting it or not.

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, Dinglebert said:

Your missing the point.  Working in a hospital where you are dealing with people who are in bed and unable to get to a fire exit it is vital that all staff are aware of the fire rules and where the equipment is and how to evacuate people safely is neccesary.  Its not like other industries where people can be responsible for themselves.  Many patients cant.

My point is does everyone working in a hospital need fire extinguisher training not are they aware of fire safety rules.

[zap99]

2 minutes ago, davecttr said:

Of course not and I am not suggesting it but as we are in a CRISIS do they need to have number 19 given that we are not vaccinating children. Someone has just pulled the list from a file with no thought as to which items are critical. they should be doing their utmost to streamline the process, not covering their backs.

 

'Lions led by Donkeys' comes to mind

Now that I fully agree with. Somebody should have checked the form and requirements and edited it. There needs to be a procedure. Is it Boris's fault, or the Government, or perhaps some fairly junior official who has been working 15 hours a day  We all seem to agree that the list of 21 should only really be 17/18, but that some record of experience is not a bad  idea.

[Dinglebert]

2 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

My point is does everyone working in a hospital need fire extinguisher training not are they aware of fire safety rules.

By law yes they do.  they have to have a practical fire training every 3 years.  Thats in Scotland I can't say for other parts of the UK.

[WECRUISEUK]

1 minute ago, zap99 said:

Now that I fully agree with. Somebody should have checked the form and requirements and edited it. There needs to be a procedure. Is it Boris's fault, or the Government, or perhaps some fairly junior official who has been working 15 hours a day  We all seem to agree that the list of 21 should only really be 17/18, but that some record of experience is not a bad  idea.

What i would like to know is,how long has the list been in use?is it years or something that's been put in place a week or so ago.Rushing things through will almost certainly have some negative issues,where as something that's been there for years and proven to be more than adequate ,should be left alone.

[Adawn47]

2 hours ago, kalos said:

 

I hope your Mum gets her other jab at the agreed appointment Wowzz.

The deal for her was we are giving you your first jab on abc date and your next is xyz date.

Not chopping and changing , they have to finish what they started,

People like us who haven't had the jab , first and second jab 12 weeks apart fine but 

lets not chop and change between jabs . that does not feel right to me. 

I've read this morning that the first person to be vaccinated in England had her second one today.

Avril

[Dinglebert]

1 minute ago, Mr.Clive Browne said:

What i would like to know is,how long has the list been in use?is it years or something that's been put in place a week or so ago.Rushing things through will almost certainly have some negative issues,where as something that's been there for years and proven to be more than adequate ,should be left alone.

All NHS employees have manditory training requirements.  Some are once only, some three yearly, two yearly and annually.  Depending on your role will dictate which of the training modules you have to do.  Some of those listed are for everyone others are for staff who deal with patients or who administer medication to patients.  The list or at least versions of it have been there for years.  New ones get added when national events happen and the outcome is that new training is required.

 

The list is also for new starts who have to complete the modules before they start their new roles.

[Dinglebert]

Just now, Adawn47 said:

I've read this morning that the first person to be vaccinated in England had her second one today.

Avril

She got it on Tuesday, three weeks after the first one.  There will be a lot of people had the two by now.