Can Carnival have a few sailings just for those who have been Vaccinated?

[Honolulu Blue]

27 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

Carnival provides the staff with healthcare, so I assume Carnival would pay for and handle the logistics. As the return to cruising will start slow, they wouldn't have to immunize everyone at the same tome.

 

Starting with your last point first, that may or may not help with the procurement of the vaccines.  Assuming a 5-month rollout (which seems pretty slow, but could be much slower of course), 100,000 Carnival Corp. employees, and a 2-dose requirement, they'd need 40,000 vaccines a month if they were to do the jabs themselves.  That's a lot by ordinary standards, but maybe not compared to the millions that some countries have already ordered.

 

On your first point, I'm sure Carnival would be willing to cover the costs and do almost anything to get their crew vaccinated.  But the challenges I see in front of them may be more than they can easily handle.

[BlerkOne]

40 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Starting with your last point first, that may or may not help with the procurement of the vaccines.  Assuming a 5-month rollout (which seems pretty slow, but could be much slower of course), 100,000 Carnival Corp. employees, and a 2-dose requirement, they'd need 40,000 vaccines a month if they were to do the jabs themselves.  That's a lot by ordinary standards, but maybe not compared to the millions that some countries have already ordered.

 

On your first point, I'm sure Carnival would be willing to cover the costs and do almost anything to get their crew vaccinated.  But the challenges I see in front of them may be more than they can easily handle.

There are a lot more than 2 vaccines in the pipeline, including at least 1 that is a single dose, and some that don't have super cold storage requirements.

 

It will be challenging for everyone, but Carnival's business is at stake.

[Doggielover68]

9 hours ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

 

 

There's so much I could say on the subject of vaccines, but I'll limit myself to commenting on the two posts above.  And I'll try to be brief.

 

First of all, the crew.  It would definitely be nice if the crew were required to get vaccines, but where would they come from?  Most crew come from less developed countries, where (1) the countries are probably near the back of the line when it comes to getting the vaccine, and (2) the crew would probably be near the back of the line when it comes to prioritizing who would get it.  Would the crew line up at a local drugstore in the nearest developed port of call?  I think that would make some people here uncomfortable, especially if they're perceived to be forcing their way to the head of the line.  The cruise line's parent corporation could put in a block order directly with the manufacturer.  But their 50,000 to 200,000 dose order might be considered small potatoes on the world stage and they could be subject to long delays, high prices, or both.

 

And second, the long-term effects.  It's true we don't know the long-term effects of any of the vaccines.  We also don't know many the long-term effects of catching the virus.  One long-term effect of the virus that's starting to show up in the (relatively) short term is death.  Over a million people worldwide have died so far.  I rather doubt the group of vaccines that will be approved will kill, by themselves, a million people, but maybe I'm just a hopeless optimist.  😀  That's not to say that the vaccines won't have some nasty long-term side effects, but we haven't seen them so far, and it seems likely that they will be outweighed by the people who are saved directly and indirectly.  But we'll see.

The crew's home countries aren't as undeveloped as you think. For example, Indonesia already has more vaccine doses than we do. They are not the same Pfizer vaccine, but it's still a vaccine that has been tested to be safe. The US and other EU nations are being selective when it comes to who develops the vaccine...

[Nic6318]

7 hours ago, BlerkOne said:

There are a lot more than 2 vaccines in the pipeline, including at least 1 that is a single dose, and some that don't have super cold storage requirements.

 

It will be challenging for everyone, but Carnival's business is at stake.

 

Hi

 

It's not just Carnival, it's all the cruise lines whose business is at stake. The question has always been the same: can they start operations safely before they run out of money. 

 

Nothing about this will happen quickly. The writing has been on the wall for a long time now. The pandemic won't be over until it is over for everybody. 

[sealpup]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:11 PM, lazydayz said:

 

There's a blood test for that. 

True there is a blood test for antibodies.  That being said the complete immunity from covid is not completely understood.  In if the Immunity comes from the T cell  immunity can not be detected .

[Buckeyefrank100]

On 12/4/2020 at 12:14 PM, fyree39 said:

I'm OK with that. Anti-vaxxers/anti-maskers fill these boards. They can go on these specialty cruises and bring their own life rafts so they can paddle home from just outside US waters should they get sick.

Not create dissention or an argument, but I cannot for the life of me see how this is not considered an inflammatory statement.  The underlying current for these types of comments are that people who disagree with your views, are worth less than those who believe the hype.  Also, for some reason, my previous account seems to have disappeared even though I've never been disrespectful to anyone here.

 

With that being said, cruise critic is for creating an exchange of opinions and creating a dialog.  With that in mind, please consider the following.  A large study was done of the people who passed away from the flu pandemic in the teens (where most people wore masks all the time).  A vast majority of the deaths were not from the flu, but from secondary infections... and most of those infections were significantly worsened by the use of a mask.  The individuals were re-infecting themselves with pneumonia and bronchitis.  Less than two months ago, the largest single study of the effectiveness of masks to prevent transmission of the virus was completed by the Danish (I believe).  Their conclusion was that masks made no impact in the transmission of the virus.  They broke the data into three groups:  Those that wore masks everywhere, those that mostly wore their masks and those who didn't wear masks.  The infection rate for all three groups were identical, showing that mask usage does not prevent the spread.  

 

Do I believe the virus exists, yes of course, I had it and amazingly I was one of the lucky few to survive (sarcasm). Is it contagious... very.  I'll likely take the vaccine and probably be required to take it since I work at a nursing home.  

 

I do not believe mask usage should be mandatory because the data doesn't show that they are effective at all in preventing the spread.  In fact, there are numerous studies showing that masks are actually more dangerous to wear than any protection they may provide.  As many others have said all over the place "follow the science".  If this makes me less worthy as a person so be it.

[dallasdan]

I am not an antivaxxer, all my kids and grandkids are immunized.  However, I do not want to get the vaccine for a variety of reasons.  I don't get the flu shot and very rarely get sick.  I am also allergic to certain medications.  I will have to check with my doctor to see if the vaccine is safe for me take.  If the vaccine is required for travel I will reluctantly get one. I also wear my mask where required.  I hate wearing the mask and don't think it is effective for stopping the spread.  I see over 90 % of the people in the Dallas area wearing the masks and the infection rate is spiking.  I hope we can start cruising soon without masks and restrictions.

 

[BlerkOne]

On the latest Danish study there are caveats:

It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.

 

So if you regularly wash your hands, social distance, stay home when you are sick, etc., masks have mixed results, but the study tended to support mask wearing more than not.

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

 

 

Even Sweden has imposed restrictions, admitting their loosey goosey approach was failing.

 

 

[Buckeyefrank100]

27 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

On the latest Danish study there are caveats:

It is important to emphasize that this trial did not address the effects of masks as source control or as protection in settings where social distancing and other public health measures are not in effect.

 

So if you regularly wash your hands, social distance, stay home when you are sick, etc., masks have mixed results, but the study tended to support mask wearing more than not.

 

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/10.7326/M20-6817

 

 

Even Sweden has imposed restrictions, admitting their loosey goosey approach was failing.

 

 

The scientific method is designed so that one variable can be tested at a time and when the Danish reviewed the mask effectiveness, they found little to no impact.  I completely agree that people should wash their hands and stay home when they are sick.  Those are different preventative measures though.  

 

[BlerkOne]

1 hour ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

The scientific method is designed so that one variable can be tested at a time and when the Danish reviewed the mask effectiveness, they found little to no impact.  I completely agree that people should wash their hands and stay home when they are sick.  Those are different preventative measures though.  

 

The Danes found little impact where people were already using all the other best practices. Their concern was that masks do not protect the eyes and a face shield address that.

[Honolulu Blue]

On 12/16/2020 at 8:06 PM, Doggielover68 said:

Indonesia already has more vaccine doses than we do. They are not the same Pfizer vaccine, but it's still a vaccine that has been tested to be safe. The US and other EU nations are being selective when it comes to who develops the vaccine...

 

Noted about Indonesia.  I also read that they plan to prioritize vaccinating those between 18 and 59, which is the opposite of most plans I've heard about.  That's very good news for the crew and the cruise lines that hire them.

[ProgRockCruiser]

14 minutes ago, Honolulu Blue said:

 

Noted about Indonesia.  I also read that they plan to prioritize vaccinating those between 18 and 59, which is the opposite of most plans I've heard about.  That's very good news for the crew and the cruise lines that hire them.

In one sense, that almost makes sense to vaccinate those between 18 and 59: they are the most mobile, and therefore the biggest vectors in terms of distance and therefore ability to spread.

[Aplmac]

You'll be seeing more of these as time goes by.

 

Covid-19 Vaccination-Certification Card -issued by the CDC!

(and the UK card issued by their National Health Service)

 

[Buckeyefrank100]

6 hours ago, Aplmac said:

You'll be seeing more of these as time goes by.

 

Covid-19 Vaccination-Certification Card -issued by the CDC!

(and the UK card issued by their National Health Service)

 

Ugh and it's not only here.  I can only guess that Israel's method for handling life post-vaccine will be coming to the gold ole USA.  Israel is not forcing anyone to take the vaccine.  They are setting up 3 zones (green, yellow and ?)  Green zones are covid free and only people who have had the vaccine are allowed in those zones.  Yellow zones are zones designated where unvaccinated people can go.  I don't know about the other zone.  Each person will be assigned a color based on whether they get it.  Green allows you to venture anywhere in the country and also leave the country.  Yellow peeps can only go to yellow zones.  I'm assuming businesses will be heavily pressured into becoming a green zone leaving non-vaccinated people with nowhere to shop.

[Aplmac]

1 hour ago, Buckeyefrank100 said:

Ugh and it's not only here.  I can only guess that Israel's method for handling life post-vaccine will be coming to the gold ole USA.  Israel is not forcing anyone to take the vaccine.  They are setting up 3 zones (green, yellow and ?)  Green zones are covid free and only people who have had the vaccine are allowed in those zones.  Yellow zones are zones designated where unvaccinated people can go.  I don't know about the other zone.  Each person will be assigned a color based on whether they get it.  Green allows you to venture anywhere in the country and also leave the country.  Yellow peeps can only go to yellow zones.  I'm assuming businesses will be heavily pressured into becoming a green zone leaving non-vaccinated people with nowhere to shop.

 

Sounds good to me!!

[evandbob]

From CNet magazine:  https://www.cnet.com/health/covid-19-vaccine-card-versus-coronavirus-immunity-passport-whats-the-difference/

[HillBilly Bob]

On 12/4/2020 at 9:47 AM, beerman2 said:

Don't you think ALL ships will require the vaccine/proof of antibodies?

 

 

What type of "proof" will be required?  This vacx will have to be documented somehow.  Card, stamp on passport.....implanted chip?  

[beerman2]

23 minutes ago, HillBilly Bob said:

What type of "proof" will be required?  This vacx will have to be documented somehow.  Card, stamp on passport.....implanted chip?  

Whatever the cruise lines say it will be, their business ,their rules. Pax won't have a say in it!

[lazydayz]

On 12/16/2020 at 11:40 PM, sealpup said:

True there is a blood test for antibodies.  That being said the complete immunity from covid is not completely understood.  In if the Immunity comes from the T cell  immunity can not be detected .

 

Totally agree.  I was just answering the question posed, which was how can prove you have antibodies.

 

But with the vaccines, the conversation has rightly shifted to proof of having received a vaccine.  However, for many of us, this won't even be an option until sometime in 2021.  

[ontheweb]

14 minutes ago, lazydayz said:

 

Totally agree.  I was just answering the question posed, which was how can prove you have antibodies.

 

But with the vaccines, the conversation has rightly shifted to proof of having received a vaccine.  However, for many of us, this won't even be an option until sometime in 2021.  

Sometime in 2021? You do realize that 2021 is right around the corner.

[Cushing985]

On 12/4/2020 at 10:55 AM, cmukid87 said:

It is going to have to be a mix, I'm afraid.  Maybe eventually for those vaccinated but the start of the vaccinations are going to be extremely tough and hard to come by.  My wife is leading a taskforce for mobile COVID vaccinations for a major regional healthcare system.  Their first shipments of vaccines are in the hundreds.  Not thousands or tens of thousands but hundreds.  And those few vaccines are reserved for certain people first and general population will be a ways down the road.

 

Cruise lines are going to do the minimum of what is absolutely necessary to start sailing again which means they will verify if you currently have COVID or are symptomatic.

 

I don't agree with your last paragraph.  I would think the lines will go over and above what the CDC desires.  If there is another wide spread of COVID onboard the ships I think that might be the death of the lines.  I personally think you're going to have to bring the so-called CODID passport (or proof of antibodies) before they allow you to board.

[Ellaleah]

5 minutes ago, Cushing985 said:

 

I don't agree with your last paragraph.  I would think the lines will go over and above what the CDC desires.  If there is another wide spread of COVID onboard the ships I think that might be the death of the lines.  I personally think you're going to have to bring the so-called CODID passport (or proof of antibodies) before they allow you to board.

I totally agree!  I keep thinking that if I owned the cruise line, I would really want to make sure things were as good as possible before resuming.  I cannot understand those that want to go and take the risk or think that the CDC is working against cruise lines and cruisers.  Thank goodness for some sanity!

[BlerkOne]

Unlike US businesses (if relief packages pass), cruise lines aren't indemnified from covid lawsuits.

[lazydayz]

On 12/23/2020 at 3:37 PM, ontheweb said:

Sometime in 2021? You do realize that 2021 is right around the corner.

Yes, that's why I said sometime in 2021.  Could be January, April, June?  Who knows?

[cmukid87]

On 12/24/2020 at 2:08 PM, Cushing985 said:

 

I don't agree with your last paragraph.  I would think the lines will go over and above what the CDC desires.  If there is another wide spread of COVID onboard the ships I think that might be the death of the lines.  I personally think you're going to have to bring the so-called CODID passport (or proof of antibodies) before they allow you to board.

I think my point came off poorly.  I wasn't saying "minimum" as in being irresponsible or not planning.  My opinion is that cruise lines will meet the minimum CDC guidelines ASAP to be able to get a ship on the water.  Internally they may have additional protocols.  If lines wait for proof of immunization or antibodies it might be even longer before they can get on the water.