Black Sea Cruising

[donaldsc]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

What do you hear from Azamara about their possible start-up?  How long are you going to hang on to your booking?  I'm just curious as the cost cost right now is pretty low and I believe that if I book now the cancellation policy is fairly generous...

 

 

I booked a while ago when the cruise was first announced.  I have a few months until final payment is due so when the time gets closer, I will have my TA check w Azamara.  I don't think that Azamara knows what is happening at this time so it is a waste of time to even check w them.  I would usually be contacting private tour companies at this point but I have not bothered as I am sure that they know no more about what is going to happen than I do.

 

My problem is that I am not will to cruise in a bubble or to have to wear a mask and socially distant all the time.  Cruises are supposed to be fun and a cruise with those limitations would not be.  I just do not understand the people who are so desperate to get on a ship going anywhere that they will be willing to pay good money to have a bad cruising experience.  

 

I have 2 cruises booked for 2021 - the Azamara Black Sea and a July Hurtigruten Alaska cruise that starts in Vancouver and ends in Nome.  I have been to AK many times but I have never been to the Aleutian Islands, the islands in the Bering Sea or to Nome.  We shall see.

 

Rest assured that if I do start looking for private tours in the Black Sea, they will be posted on CC.  Check out the cruise occasionally.  As I said on another post, I will not take the 2022 version of this cruise as it misses out on too many Black Sea ports.

 

DON

[donaldsc]

On 12/13/2020 at 3:05 PM, Supershot said:

Azamara & Oceania seem to be the only lines going there, & both are expensive. Azamara have a comprehensive one that covers east & west. It's in & out of Athens & starts July 20th 2021. Don't think they're showing 2022 yet.

I wondered how difficult getting visas for Russia & Turkey is going to be. 

 

I was originally booked on the Oceania cruise but I cancelled it for the Azamara cruise.  The Oceania cruise was much more money and the cruise did not look as good.  

 

DON

[cruisemom42]

3 hours ago, donaldsc said:

I booked a while ago when the cruise was first announced.  I have a few months until final payment is due so when the time gets closer, I will have my TA check w Azamara.  I don't think that Azamara knows what is happening at this time so it is a waste of time to even check w them.  I would usually be contacting private tour companies at this point but I have not bothered as I am sure that they know no more about what is going to happen than I do.

 

It's so aggravating because the 2022 cruise is much less comprehensive (or else I'd just go ahead and book it). Yet, like you, I have enough doubts about 2021 that I'm pretty reluctant to book it.

 

I wouldn't want to do experience the masking/social distancing/no shorex cruise either.

 

[Cruzaholic41]

4 hours ago, donaldsc said:

 

I was originally booked on the Oceania cruise but I cancelled it for the Azamara cruise.  The Oceania cruise was much more money and the cruise did not look as good.  

 

DON

Good choice!

[GrJ Berkshire]

Problem is the Geo-politics of this area which excludes Yalta, Sevastopol, Odessa from most itineraries. We were due to visit in 2014 when Russia annexed the Crimea, its status is still not recognised by most Western countries. Equally Sochi , was on our itinerary, now not visited by Western Cruise lines. If you go to Ukraine and have a Russian Crimea stamp in your passport you will be refused entry.

On our trip they substituted Sinop ,Trabazon in Northern Turkey and Batumi in Georgia, where I think we were the first cruise ship in, they laid on a band on the quayside and some guests were heard to complain it woke them up! The town is a weird mix of old and new, with a lot of Western investment and many casinos, the Russians seem to go there as their Las Vegas, but it was not geared to tourism from the west, none of us had Georgian currency and the only other thing they would take was the Euro, as a Brit I had some, but they would not touch US $ much to the Americans disgust and there were few ATM's as we asked the guide to take us to one, but to no avail. 

We did also go to Constanta, not the most inspiring port, and had an excursion to the Danube delta wetlands, again this area of Rumania is port not geared to tourism and as a Regent all inclusive meant drinks etc were in, otherwise again no local currency.

North Turkey was again off the Tourist trail Sinop was a small anchivovy fishing port, but there was little to see. Trabazon we went up in the mountains to a monestry with Christian Frescoes , it was Ok but poorly maintained and was similar to location featuring this Christmas to the site in Black Narcissus on British tv.

The bit we missed most was Balaclava as I had found in family research that a distant relative had fought in the Crimean war and lived, was hoping to trace his footsteps,

[FredT]

Well... After reading this thread I realized how much we really wanted to do the black sea.   Sooooo...   I pulled up the handy website Cruisetimetables.com, and went to the Ukraine and Russia.   Found two very interesting cruises.  First we a Windstar Black Sea intensive cruise (9 nights and 7 ports in the Black Sea) and the other was a Crystal Cruise that hit three black sea ports, but was REALLY reasonable.  So reasonable that I jumped all over it.  (12 nights, LONG stays in each port, no deposit until July 2021 for a May 2022 cruise, no cost for booze, and minimal single supplements for our third passenger... All for $3800.00 PP.      In all honesty I never thought I would get to sail on Crystal, so "Woo Woo!....    here we go!

[cruisemom42]

50 minutes ago, FredT said:

In all honesty I never thought I would get to sail on Crystal, so "Woo Woo!....    here we go!

 

 Crystal is a wonderful line, but I thought they were in some financial difficulties?

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, FredT said:

Well... After reading this thread I realized how much we really wanted to do the black sea.   Sooooo...   I pulled up the handy website Cruisetimetables.com, and went to the Ukraine and Russia.   Found two very interesting cruises.  First we a Windstar Black Sea intensive cruise (9 nights and 7 ports in the Black Sea) and the other was a Crystal Cruise that hit three black sea ports, but was REALLY reasonable.  So reasonable that I jumped all over it.  (12 nights, LONG stays in each port, no deposit until July 2021 for a May 2022 cruise, no cost for booze, and minimal single supplements for our third passenger... All for $3800.00 PP.      In all honesty I never thought I would get to sail on Crystal, so "Woo Woo!....    here we go!

 

I don't see any 12-night Crystal cruise in May 2022 with Black Sea ports???  Which ship, and what is the sail date?

 

[FredT]

OK... Off by a little.  Crystal Cruise lines Black Sea and Adriatic Discovery.  April 28 through May 10 2022. Voyage number OCS220428-12     As I found the cruise by looking at the Odessa port calls for May 2022 I was off by her sailing date by a calendar month.  (And the deposit is due earlier than I thought, but still nothing now) 

 

PS  The ship is the Crystal Symphony

 

Edited January 11, 2021 by FredT

[donaldsc]

4 hours ago, FredT said:

OK... Off by a little.  Crystal Cruise lines Black Sea and Adriatic Discovery.  April 28 through May 10 2022. Voyage number OCS220428-12     As I found the cruise by looking at the Odessa port calls for May 2022 I was off by her sailing date by a calendar month.  (And the deposit is due earlier than I thought, but still nothing now) 

 

PS  The ship is the Crystal Symphony

 

 

While the Crystal Cruise may be a good deal. it is an inadequate replacement for the Azamara Black Sea cruise.  The Azamara cruise is a longer cruise.  The Crystal has 3 Black Sea ports; the Azamara cruise has 6 ports.  If you cruise to see things as opposed to being on a ship, there is no comparison between the cruises. 

 

Based on everything that is going on in the cruise world and the lousy itineraries that I see on all the cruise lines and the fact that I pick cruises based on the itinerary and not the ship, I am just about ready to give up cruising.  I may switch to picking a few places that I want to spend real time at a few places instead of running from place-to-place on a ship.  The trip would be just as relaxing, more interesting if I pick the right places and I will be able to design my own trip instead of going where the cruise companies make the most money.  

 

My only other alternative is to do expedition cruising to out-of-the-way places but those cruises tend to be a bit pricy.

 

DON

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, donaldsc said:

Based on everything that is going on in the cruise world and the lousy itineraries that I see on all the cruise lines and the fact that I pick cruises based on the itinerary and not the ship, I am just about ready to give up cruising.  I may switch to picking a few places that I want to spend real time at a few places instead of running from place-to-place on a ship.  The trip would be just as relaxing, more interesting if I pick the right places and I will be able to design my own trip instead of going where the cruise companies make the most money.  

 

My only other alternative is to do expedition cruising to out-of-the-way places but those cruises tend to be a bit pricy.

 

In many respects I agree with you. I've always mixed land travel with cruises. Cruises provided a different (and enjoyable) way to travel for some places where I didn't really need an in-depth visit, or where I had been before (or planned to return).  

 

But with the world situation making some itineraries "off the table" for now, and with the focus seemingly on the "ship experience" more and more, I find fewer itineraries that really interest me. Oh don't get me wrong, I can cruise the Med over and over. But I do see a focus on land travel more than cruising in future, for me.

[FredT]

On 1/11/2021 at 6:44 PM, donaldsc said:

The Crystal has 3 Black Sea ports; the Azamara cruise has 6 ports.  If you cruise to see things as opposed to being on a ship, there is no comparison between the cruises. 

Welllll..... Thats the thing.  Normally I would agree with you about the "see things vs the cruise experience".   But for ME, here is a chance to do at least half of the black sea, while also getting to experience (at least once in this lifetime) one of the top tier premium lines.  (And sorry, I do not put Azamara in that category)  It's for that reason that I also eliminated the Windstar option.   $1300 more for 3 days less, and as we have sailed Windstar, it's not the "new experience" that enters into the equation.  But for each his own.   I know I am looking forward to this.   (The only other cruise we have on the books is a Greek Island Star Clippers trip in October this year....) and I find that a BIG question mark.  

[bobbyd6363]

Royal Caribbean is selling Azamara

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5828/

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, bobbyd6363 said:

Royal Caribbean is selling Azamara

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5828/

 

Interesting news...   More maneuvering due to COVID and need for cash?

[rkacruiser]

10 hours ago, bobbyd6363 said:

Royal Caribbean is selling Azamara

 

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/5828/

 

They should have never bought the ships in the beginning and forming this niche cruise line.  It was just to try to create a competitor for CCL's Seabourn, I think.  That didn't work so well, so they have invested in Silverseas.  Well, let's see how that turns out.  It's a Fain vs. Arison competition just like the Brady vs. Brees competition was this past week-end.  

 

But, with MY investment!

 

Looking forward to receiving the Proxy Statement for RCI this Spring.  

[cruisemom42]

38 minutes ago, rkacruiser said:

 

They should have never bought the ships in the beginning and forming this niche cruise line.  It was just to try to create a competitor for CCL's Seabourn, I think.  That didn't work so well, so they have invested in Silverseas.  Well, let's see how that turns out.  It's a Fain vs. Arison competition just like the Brady vs. Brees competition was this past week-end.  

 

But, with MY investment!

 

Looking forward to receiving the Proxy Statement for RCI this Spring.  

 

Well, as with Carnival Corp buying Holland America, I was happy to see those smaller ships still sailing and still relevant.

 

I don't think RCCL saw them as a Seabourn -- Azamara was never really positioned as a "luxury" line but more of a "premium" line. But in cruising (as in society) there seems to be a trending toward the very expensive/luxury/upper class and the very inexpensive/basic/mass market, with not much available in between.

 

I really liked Azamara's model (focused on destinations; small ships). But I have a dim view of their future from this point.

 

Pretty soon there will be no small ships left that I can afford to cruise on. 

[rkacruiser]

12 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

as with Carnival Corp buying Holland America, I was happy to see those smaller ships still sailing and still relevant.

 

My opinion:  CCL never bought HAL because of the "smaller ship" issue.  It was because Mr. Arison was looking for a way finding a way of fulfilling his business concept of his "Tiffany Project".  Having a company that already had "smaller ships" as part of their fleet may well have fit into the business model he had in mind.  

 

14 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

I don't think RCCL saw them as a Seabourn --

 

I don't agree.  Why did RCI invest in Azamara initially?  What was their plan for this line?  What was their business model?  

[cruisemom42]

1 minute ago, rkacruiser said:

 

My opinion:  CCL never bought HAL because of the "smaller ship" issue.  It was because Mr. Arison was looking for a way finding a way of fulfilling his business concept of his "Tiffany Project".  Having a company that already had "smaller ships" as part of their fleet may well have fit into the business model he had in mind.  

 

 

I don't agree.  Why did RCI invest in Azamara initially?  What was their plan for this line?  What was their business model?  

 

You are focusing on the word "smaller" when I was just using that as a descriptor. I was just echoing what many HAL loyalists have said -- that they were just happy Carnival stepped in to acquire HAL, as otherwise the line would likely not still be around.

 

There's a bare outline of the history of RCCL acquiring the R-class ships here:   https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3076

 

The original idea was to make them a part of Celebrity's Xpedition sub-group of ships. However, I think two things happened once RCCL had the first two R-class ships: first, they aren't really that suited to be expedition-style vessels, and around the same time Oceania was getting underway with several of the other R-class ships and RCCL saw an opportunity to compete with them in the premium market.

 

[rkacruiser]

22 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

There's a bare outline of the history of RCCL acquiring the R-class ships here:   https://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=3076

 

Thanks for posting this link.  I was not aware of the corporate thinking.