Tranquility Base Posted January 3, 2021 #151 Share Posted January 3, 2021 (edited) I think I will add 'Lord of the Flies' to my required reading list for 2021. Edited January 3, 2021 by Tranquility Base 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted January 3, 2021 #152 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, susiesan said: To give first to politically connected people, the wealthy political donors, the elite and all the self important people who think they are better than the rest of us Now I hope you've contact law enforcement about this and not just posted on a cruise message board. I had no idea when Nevadans are supposed to get the vaccine and it doesn't particularly bother me. But I checked and it appears that I may get it in the spring some time. Que sera sera. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sea42 Posted January 4, 2021 #153 Share Posted January 4, 2021 17 hours ago, pinotlover said: How some Ststes decide that getting otherwise healthy 70+ year olds vaccinated instead of quickly getting students quickly safely back into the classroom is really a statement on priorities and education both. The reasoning behind that is that a healthy 70+ does not have as robust an immune system of younger people. If a healthy 40 yr old and a healthy 70 yr old both get infected the outlook is much worse for the 70 yr old. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadzone1003 Posted January 5, 2021 #154 Share Posted January 5, 2021 On 1/3/2021 at 1:44 PM, susiesan said: My city, Kansas City, and county hasn't even begun any kind of online registration. I know from news reports that lots of the vaccine was delivered here but it is not being used. The people in nursing homes aren't getting it, only healthcare workers and our local politicians (of course, what a surprise). I don't know what the delay is, what is going on. Cases and hospitalization rates are way down, over 50% lower than 2 weeks ago. Someone in KC is hoarding the vaccine. Maybe, it is just your government at work. This is all new to everyone. It will get better with time and practice. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility Base Posted January 5, 2021 #155 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Keep an eye on news as more information is found out about the South African strain in the next couple of months. Whilst the UK strain is widely known to be more infectious and has already spread to many countries, The South African strain apparently has two additional mutations in important genes. These other mutations may mean the current vaccines do not work as effectively as against the current virus. Also, the current PCR testing may make it harder to pick up, so this strain could be more widespread than thought. Lots of may, could, perhaps in there. But the message is : the basic preventative measures that we know, should remain the primary defence whilst the Scientists continue their research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted January 5, 2021 #156 Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 hours ago, Tranquility Base said: Keep an eye on news as more information is found out about the South African strain in the next couple of months. Whilst the UK strain is widely known to be more infectious and has already spread to many countries, The South African strain apparently has two additional mutations in important genes. These other mutations may mean the current vaccines do not work as effectively as against the current virus. Also, the current PCR testing may make it harder to pick up, so this strain could be more widespread than thought. Lots of may, could, perhaps in there. But the message is : the basic preventative measures that we know, should remain the primary defence whilst the Scientists continue their research. I think these mutations also make vaccine distribution even more important as the mutations stop when the spread stops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoNorthPerth Posted January 5, 2021 #157 Share Posted January 5, 2021 5 hours ago, KirkNC said: I think these mutations also make vaccine distribution even more important as the mutations stop when the spread stops. I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here. Could you please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted January 5, 2021 #158 Share Posted January 5, 2021 19 minutes ago, DeanoNorthPerth said: I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here. Could you please explain. My point is that if we establish herd immunity the virus stops spreading. If the virus stops spreading it in essence “goes away”. Once that happens there are either no more mutations or significantly less opportunities for them. The only way we establish herd immunity is via the vaccine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanoNorthPerth Posted January 5, 2021 #159 Share Posted January 5, 2021 6 minutes ago, KirkNC said: My point is that if we establish herd immunity the virus stops spreading. If the virus stops spreading it in essence “goes away”. Once that happens there are either no more mutations or significantly less opportunities for them. The only way we establish herd immunity is via the vaccine. There’s a few flaws in your argument but it would be boring to address them. I’ll just mention the one in your first sentence. Establishing herd immunity doesn’t stop the virus spreading. It’s still around and is spread but we are immune so it doesn’t impact us. Immunity doesn’t wipe out the virus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirkNC Posted January 5, 2021 #160 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Just now, DeanoNorthPerth said: There’s a few flaws in your argument but it would be boring to address them. I’ll just mention the one in your first sentence. Establishing herd immunity doesn’t stop the virus spreading. It’s still around and is spread but we are immune so it doesn’t impact us. Immunity doesn’t wipe out the virus. If the virus can’t spread it can’t survive. I acknowledge that herd immunity doesn’t completely stop the spread but it will significantly reduce it. The less existing cases, the less chance for mutations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZjohn Posted January 5, 2021 #161 Share Posted January 5, 2021 44 minutes ago, DeanoNorthPerth said: Establishing herd immunity doesn’t stop the virus spreading. I thought herd immunity is exactly what is needed to eliminate a virus (aka: stopping virus spreading): When the effective reproduction number Re of a contagious disease is reduced to and sustained below 1 new individual per infection, the number of cases occurring in the population gradually decreases until the disease has been eliminated.[9][29][56] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility Base Posted January 5, 2021 #162 Share Posted January 5, 2021 There is a thread going on the Royal Caribbean Forum about the future problems regarding getting crews vaccinated. One of the posts is from an essential crew member current onboard a Royal ship. They post that this new strain is causing big problems with even getting small numbers of essential crew on & off ships as countries tighten up travel & border restrictions at very short notice. The logistics of crew vaccinations, travel to ships, in sufficient numbers is going to be a huge logistical problem. Then add in having to reestablish supply lines for resupply of ships with the current worldwide freight issues. I can envisage a very very slow start to significant cruising. Most likely not until 2022 is my guess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted January 5, 2021 #163 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Tranquility Base said: I can envisage a very very slow start to significant cruising. I think what you describe is going to be THE biggest contributor to a slow start. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kucherov Posted January 6, 2021 #164 Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 12/30/2020 at 1:13 PM, TrulyBlonde said: I would think that due to the large elderly population in FL, that is a good move. Keep us posted on your vaccine progress. I live in the state of CO where the latest Covid virus from UK has been discovered. I contacted my Dr. recently to see about getting on the list for the vaccine. Was told to look at the Covid website for the guidelines as to when and where it will be distributed. I do hope I get it before the prisoners and illegals here. But, you never know 😉 First dose is in. Moderna. The procedure was very organized and quick...15 minutes from arrival till departure. Had to go to a neighboring county (Flagler) because the county I live in (Volusia) totally screwed it up...elderly folks camping in their cars overnight etc. Now if everyone in Brazil gets vaccinated, I can finally cruise on down there. I hope everyone here has an equally simple and easy vaccine experience. Stephen. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted January 6, 2021 #165 Share Posted January 6, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 12:31 PM, Tranquility Base said: There is a thread going on the Royal Caribbean Forum about the future problems regarding getting crews vaccinated. One of the posts is from an essential crew member current onboard a Royal ship. They post that this new strain is causing big problems with even getting small numbers of essential crew on & off ships as countries tighten up travel & border restrictions at very short notice. The logistics of crew vaccinations, travel to ships, in sufficient numbers is going to be a huge logistical problem. Then add in having to reestablish supply lines for resupply of ships with the current worldwide freight issues. I can envisage a very very slow start to significant cruising. Most likely not until 2022 is my guess. I would guess when the time comes to seriously start crewing ships, the lines will buy thousands of vaccines from China, that require only refrigeration, and vaccinate their crews before they leave their home country. Set up a hotel facility in the Philippines near the major airport, for example, and vaccinate everyone on contract. Same for the Butlers in India. Etc. By the time the lines start cruising again, the vaccines will be more readily available. Crew members crying that they’re not already vaccinated this early is a bit silly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted January 6, 2021 #166 Share Posted January 6, 2021 11 minutes ago, pinotlover said: I would guess when the time comes to seriously start crewing ships, the lines will buy thousands of vaccines from China, that require only refrigeration, and vaccinate their crews before they leave their home country. Set up a hotel facility in the Philippines near the major airport, for example, and vaccinate everyone on contract. Same for the Butlers in India. Etc. By the time the lines start cruising again, the vaccines will be more readily available. Crew members crying that they’re not already vaccinated this early is a bit silly. What do you know about the Chinese vaccine? How effective and safe is it? Without having the answers to those questions it’s not certain that the crew will actually be protected. They may be but they (and thus we)may not. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel A Posted January 6, 2021 Author #167 Share Posted January 6, 2021 16 minutes ago, Paulchili said: What do you know about the Chinese vaccine? How effective and safe is it? Without having the answers to those questions it’s not certain that the crew will actually be protected. They may be but they (and thus we)may not. The least respected manner of arguing a point is to keep asking questions rather than giving significant input. Nothing is certain in this world. The CDC hasn't even visited the prospect of a vaccine in their framework as they are well behind the times. (Which says a lot about the CDC...) As long as all of the PAX are protected by the vaccine, then whether or not the Chinese vaccine will immunize the crew will be a moot point. I am strictly in favor of all cruise lines requiring proof of vaccination as a condition of embarkation. That will ally most of my concerns about a return to cruising. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted January 6, 2021 #168 Share Posted January 6, 2021 As I’ve said before, the world will require and use a lot of vaccines not approved by the CDC. England is already using one. The two companies currently supplying the US can not and will not take care of everyone. Only thing really certain in all of this is that some are going to hunker a lot longer than others. Some may never find it safe enough for their conditions , or frame of mind, to ever leave home again. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulchili Posted January 7, 2021 #169 Share Posted January 7, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Daniel A said: The least respected manner of arguing a point is to keep asking questions rather than giving significant input I think it’s even less respectful to post as facts something none of us know anything about - such as the Chinese (or Russian) vaccine. As I had said, it may very well work but I was asking for data proving the effectiveness of this vaccine. Edited January 7, 2021 by Paulchili 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tranquility Base Posted January 7, 2021 #170 Share Posted January 7, 2021 2 hours ago, Daniel A said: As long as all of the PAX are protected by the vaccine, then whether or not the Chinese vaccine will immunize the crew will be a moot point. But they won't all be protected. There will be various efficacy rates from various vaccines amongst both passengers and crew. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
njhorseman Posted January 7, 2021 #171 Share Posted January 7, 2021 3 hours ago, Daniel A said: The least respected manner of arguing a point is to keep asking questions rather than giving significant input. Actually it's part of the Socratic method and is one of the most respected and effective ways of conducting an argument . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d9704011 Posted January 7, 2021 #172 Share Posted January 7, 2021 6 minutes ago, njhorseman said: Actually it's part of the Socratic method and is one of the most respected and effective ways of conducting an argument . Part of. What about the offering of answers? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare pinotlover Posted January 7, 2021 #173 Share Posted January 7, 2021 I believe the difference of opinion derives from one view of safety. The two vaccines currently in use here gives 94-95 percent protection. I’m happy with that. However, it appears some, because of their personal limitations, revolt and talk down anything less than 100% safety. Anything less than 100% draws ire and questionage. If you only accept 100%, continue to hunker at home. I don’t see us meeting your requirements in my lifetime. Was the Socratic method developed to persist and to question anything short of perfection? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clo Posted January 7, 2021 #174 Share Posted January 7, 2021 5 hours ago, pinotlover said: Same for the Butlers in India. Is that a surname? We have "Butlers" in my family but none from India that I know of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare ORV Posted January 7, 2021 #175 Share Posted January 7, 2021 40 minutes ago, clo said: Is that a surname? We have "Butlers" in my family but none from India that I know of. Are you serious? In case you are, all of the Butlers for the suites on Oceania are from India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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