WILL PRICES EVER COME DOWN?

[LGW59]

We are on APEX, Aug 2021 (probably not) but all of the PH and RS are sold out.  We are also on APEX TA Apr 2022, Iconic, PH, Edge Villa, RS and CS are ALL sold out.  Pent up demand so looks like people are paying.

[zitsky]

11 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

We are on APEX, Aug 2021 (probably not) but all of the PH and RS are sold out.  We are also on APEX TA Apr 2022, Iconic, PH, Edge Villa, RS and CS are ALL sold out.  Pent up demand so looks like people are paying.

 

Probably not because X will cancel it or you won't get a vaccine soon enough or ???

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

 

Probably not because X will cancel it or you won't get a vaccine soon enough or ???

I think you definitely correct here!  Got a pretty decent deal, IMO, considering the price increases etc.  Oh, well, 2022 TA here we come!

[Arizona Wildcat]

2 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Probably not because X will cancel it or you won't get a vaccine soon enough or ???

Celebrity is not releasing all rooms, especially suites because they need to have them for L&S.  

Showing sold out can also suggest a cruise is likely to be cancelled if before September.  Some countries not likely to open before early fall as vaccine availability continues to be challenging.

[Arizona Wildcat]

21 hours ago, ECCruise said:

I think the key is they don't realize the harm they create by rolling out these boneheaded prices.  It was enough for us to book 5 sailings on other lines in the last 3 weeks.

They are not bonehead prices.  They are a factor of some 600K passengers with FCCs and most of them trying to L&S.  Other lines have simply issues refunds.

[Ride-The-Waves]

22 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

We are on APEX, Aug 2021 (probably not) but all of the PH and RS are sold out.  We are also on APEX TA Apr 2022, Iconic, PH, Edge Villa, RS and CS are ALL sold out.  Pent up demand so looks like people are paying.

Maybe.  I don't trust cruise lines anymore, and especially don't trust Celebrity.  

 

Last month caught the bug and looked at Transatlantics for Spring 2022 - hopefully semi-safe and semi-"normal" by then.  Found a TA stopping at Casablanca which we had missed twice last several years (Covid cancellation and a medical cancellation).  Sky Princess is a sister ship to Enchanted Princess (similar to Reflection) and our Covid cancellation was from Sky's one-year older sister Enchanted Princess' first TA westbound.  Looking for a suite...  The only suites showing on Princess' website and other booking sites were not the ones we were interested in booking.  Called our TA and she called Princess.  Of the suites we wanted ("Vista "S" class) near the Concierge Lounge on Deck 14, only 4 of the available 14 were booked.  So we jumped...and got what we wanted.

 

Likely all cruise lines are playing fast and furious with cabin availability.  I could only guess at the reasons...one being to encourage people to "buy now" and another to artificially drive up demand.  Don't care for it, but that appears to be "the game" these days.

Edited January 16, 2021 by Ride-The-Waves

[RickT]

Not ready to jump ship to another line..... yet.  But not looking to book anything on X yet either.  I have looked at pricing and see better offers on Princess and Royal.  Once things get clearer on the real start date of cruises I’ll book something but until then I just do my research.

[ECCruise]

5 minutes ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

They are not bonehead prices.  They are a factor of some 600K passengers with FCCs and most of them trying to L&S.  Other lines have simply issues refunds.

You say tomato I say tomahto

 

For me, $1500 per day for a basic, entry level suite on a mass market cruise line is a bonehead price. You can couch it any way you wish, and of course your opinion is just as valid as mine.

 

But who would pay that kind of dough?  

[Ride-The-Waves]

And, IRT the thread title, DO NOT expect prices to come down.  Not fiscally practical for cruise lines to keep operating at a loss while attempting to pay back loans incurred during the pandemic and also pay for the new ships they have ordered, many waiting to be launched or in preparation for operations.  Then there are those ships whose refit has been delayed...  It will take years before things might, repeat might, begin to balance again.  There is little to no "pent up demand" for cruising, especially on Covid-magnet mega ships.  People who would cruise "once in a while" are now very shy to take the chance.  Safety, security and health measures on board are yet to be determined and promulgated.  Managing crews, reestablishing competent crew operations and training, is in its infancy, if that.  Ports are still hesitant and at least uncertain how to manage a cruise ship disgorging 3,000 people which  local authorities have little to no control over.  All this must be worked out.  

 

In the mean time we have placed a marker down on two Transatlantics for 2022, Spring and Fall.  

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

You say tomato I say tomahto

 

For me, $1500 per day for a basic, entry level suite on a mass market cruise line is a bonehead price. You can couch it any way you wish, and of course your opinion is just as valid as mine.

 

But who would pay that kind of dough?  

Is the $1500 you reference pp/day for entry level suite, or total cost per day?

[ECCruise]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

Is the $1500 you reference pp/day for entry level suite, or total cost per day?

Total cost per day,  What we have never paid even $600 per day for, and frequently considerably less. On mainstream as well as premium (Azamara and Oceania) lines.  And sometimes much bigger suites as well on mainstream lines.

 

Caveat:  Finding those prices wasn't like falling off a log. It took some work, finding sales, upgrading when prices dropped, etc.  

[LGW59]

1 minute ago, ECCruise said:

Total cost per day,  What we have never paid even $600 per day for, and frequently considerably less. On mainstream as well as premium (Azamara and Oceania) lines.  And sometimes much bigger suites as well on mainstream lines.

 

Caveat:  Finding those prices wasn't like falling off a log. It took some work, finding sales, upgrading when prices dropped, etc.  

Dang that is one pricey entry level suite!!!

[ECCruise]

1 minute ago, LGW59 said:

Dang that is one pricey entry level suite!!!

I just quoted an example even higher yesterday.

 

This is a Silhouette 7 day sailing in June.   S1.  Almost $1900 per day. 

 

Sky Suite

First Guest

$6,489.00

Second Guest

$6,489.00

The Retreat - Refundable

Streaming Wi-Fi$300 per person in shore excursion and onboard creditsPremium drinksTipsDiningBreakfast, Lunch, Dinner included at select venues

Exclusive Access to LuminaeTaxes & FeeTaxes, Fees, and Port Expenses

$206.04

---

Trip Total

$13,184.04 USD

 

[LGW59]

4 minutes ago, ECCruise said:

I just quoted an example even higher yesterday.

 

This is a Silhouette 7 day sailing in June.   S1.  Almost $1900 per day. 

 

Sky Suite

First Guest

$6,489.00

Second Guest

$6,489.00

The Retreat - Refundable

Streaming Wi-Fi$300 per person in shore excursion and onboard creditsPremium drinksTipsDiningBreakfast, Lunch, Dinner included at select venues

Exclusive Access to LuminaeTaxes & FeeTaxes, Fees, and Port Expenses

$206.04

---

Trip Total

$13,184.04 USD

 

•  

That is def crazy for an S1!!  It makes me feel better about what we got and I guess booking when I did.  Good luck, if you are like, me check on a regular basis to see if any $ changes.

[scottsla]

7 hours ago, Arizona Wildcat said:

They are not bonehead prices.  They are a factor of some 600K passengers with FCCs and most of them trying to L&S.  Other lines have simply issues refunds.

Personally I think boneheaded is an apt description. Encouraging loyal cruisers like ECCruise and myself to look elsewhere due to pricing losing long term business. Up until now we would have never really looked at other cruise lines as we were happy with X, now we will be giving at least 2 other cruise lines business in the coming 3 years to try them out. I guess we maybe should be thankful that they are forcing us to try elsewhere.

[scottsla]

Just now, LGW59 said:

Nope, not at all, very happy Celebrity cruiser, no consideration on looking elsewhere. 

and us giving honest feedback on how their decisions are affecting purchasing choices is NOT whining. I would really like to come back to Celebrity sometime in the future and want them to succeed and part of that is offering constructive criticism and feedback rather than sticking our heads in the sand and pretending nothing is wrong.

[markeb]

I’m sorry, but if they succeed at moving up profit without the expense of going up market, and stockholders are happy, then nothing is wrong. I won’t like it either, but if they succeed, they succeed, and they did it without us. That’s business. 

[LGW59]

6 minutes ago, markeb said:

I’m sorry, but if they succeed at moving up profit without the expense of going up market, and stockholders are happy, then nothing is wrong. I won’t like it either, but if they succeed, they succeed, and they did it without us. That’s business. 

I understand your point.  I do disagree with where you place them in the market, for me there is no comparison between Celebrity, NCL, Princess and Carnival (horrendous).  Celebrity just totally meets our needs.  I want no line to fail, there is a market of customers for all, as it should be.  Profit is the name of the game, some will (and are) pissed about changes, but that is a me attitude.  I am looking at the big picture and hoping all of these lines can succeed.  

[markeb]

2 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

I understand your point.  I do disagree with where you place them in the market, for me there is no comparison between Celebrity, NCL, Princess and Carnival (horrendous).  Celebrity just totally meets our needs.  I want no line to fail, there is a market of customers for all, as it should be.  Profit is the name of the game, some will (and are) pissed about changes, but that is a me attitude.  I am looking at the big picture and hoping all of these lines can succeed.  

The argument I’ve seen is they’re charging “luxury” prices without being a luxury line. I’m not sure how you define that exactly, but smaller ships and all inclusive seem to be a big part of it. I certainly don’t consider Celebrity down market, but I think we were discussing pricing and product on Regent last night, and if Celebrity can compete at that price point without the expense of providing the same product, if I were on their board or a serious stockholder, I’d be very happy. Can they do that long term? Maybe, maybe not. Cruising is a luxury product, and to some extent logic doesn’t apply in the luxury market. 
 

We’ll see. 

[ChucktownSteve]

5 hours ago, markeb said:

The argument I’ve seen is they’re charging “luxury” prices without being a luxury line. I’m not sure how you define that exactly, but smaller ships and all inclusive seem to be a big part of it. I certainly don’t consider Celebrity down market, but I think we were discussing pricing and product on Regent last night, and if Celebrity can compete at that price point without the expense of providing the same product, if I were on their board or a serious stockholder, I’d be very happy. Can they do that long term? Maybe, maybe not. Cruising is a luxury product, and to some extent logic doesn’t apply in the luxury market. 
 

We’ll see. 

 

Other aspects of a Luxury cruise line are the quality of service, guest/crew ratio, food quality offerings and overall atmosphere.  By calling cruising a luxury product, that makes Carnival a luxury cruise line because they are profitable.

 

When XX removed the assistant cabin attendant, that wasn't to increase service, it was to save money.  When XX moved to cheaper cuts of meat and covered them with heavy sauces to hide the lower quality, it was to save money.  When they reduced entertainment crew, it was to save money.  When they reduced the amount of live entertainment, it was to save money. It all added to the "double/double" philosophy. It was like boiling a frog so the frog doesn't realize it's being cooked.

 

Take a look at the attached menus. These restaurants are included at no up charge. Can you compare the quality of the luxury line to XX's food offerings without charging more?

 

One of your key points was when you said, "if Celebrity can compete at that price point without the expense of providing the same product..."  However if loyal customers are becoming EX customers, how will that help the long term bottom line?

 

When XX raised their pricing to be as much or higher than Regent without offering the quality of service, food and included offerings, they're not competing on anything but price and even losing that battle.

 

All Regent cabin categories include air fare, transfers and excursions in every port.  Add that to the cost of your XX cruise and they aren't even competing on the consumer's bottom line if the cabin pricing were equal.

 

Personally I hope loyalists remain with XX.  That way less demand for the small number of cabins on the luxury lines will help keep their pricing lower.  Another example of that is when you find a great restaurant and tell everyone how good it is.  But then they get so busy you can't get a reservation. 

 

In my opinion, just because the marketing people call XX "luxury" doesn't make it so.  A ship as large as AXEX or EDGE can never be a true luxury cruise line but will remain with the other mass market companies.  Granted XX may be at the forefront of the other mass marketing cruise companies but putting lipstick on that pig won't make it a premium or luxury line.

 

 

EXP Chartreuse Example Menu Dinner.pdf EXP Pacific Rim Example Dinner Menu.pdf Prime7Menu.pdf

Edited January 17, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[ECCruise]

8 hours ago, LGW59 said:

I understand your point.  I do disagree with where you place them in the market, for me there is no comparison between Celebrity, NCL, Princess and Carnival (horrendous).  

I agree that there is not a valid comparison between =X= and Carnival (but I think "horrendous" is a bit strong) but in far more instances than not, NCL, Princess and Celebrity are an excellent comparison. And that is after 30+ Celebrity, and 15+ sailings on each Princess and NCL.  Yes, one line is better than another in some aspects, whether it be food or entertainment or itineraries or other factors but overall there is not a huge amount of difference.

 

Caveat:  If you view the comparison only in eyes accustomed to suites, then I would agree (but then at those prices you really should be looking at more premium lines,  honestly).  But for 90+% of cruisers, the differences are pretty minor.

[ABoatNerd]

2 hours ago, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Other aspects of a Luxury cruise line are the quality of service, guest/crew ratio, food quality offerings and overall atmosphere.  By calling cruising a luxury product, that makes Carnival a luxury cruise line because they are profitable.

 

When XX removed the assistant cabin attendant, that wasn't to increase service, it was to save money.  When XX moved to cheaper cuts of meat and covered them with heavy sauces to hide the lower quality, it was to save money.  When they reduced entertainment crew, it was to save money.  When they reduced the amount of live entertainment, it was to save money. It all added to the "double/double" philosophy. It was like boiling a frog so the frog doesn't realize it's being cooked.

 

Take a look at the attached menus. These restaurants are included at no up charge. Can you compare the quality of the luxury line to XX's food offerings without charging more?

 

One of your key points was when you said, "if Celebrity can compete at that price point without the expense of providing the same product..."  However if loyal customers are becoming EX customers, how will that help the long term bottom line?

 

When XX raised their pricing to be as much or higher than Regent without offering the quality of service, food and included offerings, they're not competing on anything but price and even losing that battle.

 

All Regent cabin categories include air fare, transfers and excursions in every port.  Add that to the cost of your XX cruise and they aren't even competing on the consumer's bottom line if the cabin pricing were equal.

 

Personally I hope loyalists remain with XX.  That way less demand for the small number of cabins on the luxury lines will help keep their pricing lower.  Another example of that is when you find a great restaurant and tell everyone how good it is.  But then they get so busy you can't get a reservation. 

 

In my opinion, just because the marketing people call XX "luxury" doesn't make it so.  A ship as large as AXEX or EDGE can never be a true luxury cruise line but will remain with the other mass market companies.  Granted XX may be at the forefront of the other mass marketing cruise companies but putting lipstick on that pig won't make it a premium or luxury line.

 

 

EXP Chartreuse Example Menu Dinner.pdf 149.26 kB · 6 downloads EXP Pacific Rim Example Dinner Menu.pdf 80.43 kB · 4 downloads Prime7Menu.pdf 451.23 kB · 6 downloads

 

Your assessment is spot on and to the point, thank you ChucktownSteve.  Glad you do not have blinders on and can clearly state the degradation of the once excellent Celebrity product. It is the degradation, combined with pricing, that has moved us away from Celebrity to the premium lines. Our friends and travel partners as well.

 

It is up to the consumer to beware of the value proposition of each business. The worst activity a consumer can have is being loyal to a for profit business. Consumer blindness or in industry slang  "obedient consumer", behavior is beloved by every for profit business.

 

With the prices being asked by Celebrity these days, the consumer is on the losing end. 

 

But to each their own.

[deliver42]

I'm booked on he Apex now because of a L&S from 2021 to 2022. e booked way before the all inclusive pricing and have everything that's now included without the wi-fi that we never use. I also upgraded to the premium drink pkg. We are in a non obstructed balcony, including ins. for a total of around $3200.00. Now, we'd be talking around $5000.oo. Not in this lifetime.

[zitsky]

We talk about X being expensive but Regent is twice the price for the same category cabin.

[wrk2cruise]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

We talk about X being expensive but Regent is twice the price for the same category cabin.

 

Apples and Oranges.