WILL PRICES EVER COME DOWN?

[grandgeezer]

9 hours ago, HMR74 said:

I am still waiting for the call back from a higher level person on the discount. Got the B2B price adjustment, got another bonus for 200 each, and double points. 

 

now, here is the rub. 
 

I was on a B2B for 28 days in aqua and my gross cost was 11,400 incl internet, prem drinks, grats and 300 each cruise for obc and the TA worked  in more  obc which was refundable if unused at end of trip.say 1000 for the 2 cruises.so net cosr would have been the 11400 minus 1000 or 10400.

 

not bad.

 

my 2 new cruises are 16 months later, 25 vs 28 and one is a repositioning, and my gross ai cost with indulge in aqua is around 17000

 

huge difference. And nothing forthcoming. There is 1600 obc use it or lose it which brings it down to 15400. So 50% more . 
 

i am not real comfortable with that price increase. At some point i will need to make up my mind.but now leaning to jumping ship.

 

btw, nrd was a 900 reduction in cabin price which was a good deal and ok risk, esp if we had insurance that covers everthing. Except now with covid, and its only money.

 

 

 

In August 2019 we did a 14 day (B2B seven day cruises) in a S2 Sky Suite, on the Equinox. We paid $8600 total (no insurance)l, with all four perks. We got $1050 in refundable obc for a net cost of $7550.

Nice time but still priced too high compared to similar trips taken on other lines. Would not pay that much again.

[HMR74]

11 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

In August 2019 we did a 14 day (B2B seven day cruises) in a S2 Sky Suite, on the Equinox. We paid $8600 total (no insurance)l, with all four perks. We got $1050 in refundable obc for a net cost of $7550.

Nice time but still priced too high compared to similar trips taken on other lines. Would not pay that much again.

we did 16 day eclipse in late 2019 to South America for 4600 net with Prem drinks, internet etc.

Now 25 days is 17000 with non refundable OBC of the 1600.

 

Its is my belief they are pricing themselves out of the mass market. And they need to fill a good portion of their ships with other than premium Suite and aqua and concierge classes to pay the fixed costs.

 

And there are a ton of retirees from say florida with time on their hands who look for last minute cheap trip. And if many  are "less cheap" its an issue.

 

Just my opinion.

[jagoffee]

10 hours ago, HMR74 said:

I am still waiting for the call back from a higher level person on the discount. Got the B2B price adjustment, got another bonus for 200 each, and double points. 

 

now, here is the rub. 
 

I was on a B2B for 28 days in aqua and my gross cost was 11,400 incl internet, prem drinks, grats and 300 each cruise for obc and the TA worked  in more  obc which was refundable if unused at end of trip.say 1000 for the 2 cruises.so net cosr would have been the 11400 minus 1000 or 10400.

 

not bad.

 

my 2 new cruises are 16 months later, 25 vs 28 and one is a repositioning, and my gross ai cost with indulge in aqua is around 17000

 

huge difference. And nothing forthcoming. There is 1600 obc use it or lose it which brings it down to 15400. So 50% more . 
 

i am not real comfortable with that price increase. At some point i will need to make up my mind.but now leaning to jumping ship.

 

btw, nrd was a 900 reduction in cabin price which was a good deal and ok risk, esp if we had insurance that covers everthing. Except now with covid, and its only money.

 

 

 

Are you suggesting that your TA is no longer offering you extra OBC that is refundable if you do not use it?  I would think the TA refundable OBC would be greater due to the higher price.  
 

It sounds like your cancelled cruise had the Best package and your new cruise only has the AI.  If true, you are losing the premium upgrade and have an inferior internet package.

 

IMO the increase you are seeing is not related to the AI, since it is an inferior package to what you previous booked.  I suspect it is related to the increased demand.  Booking demand due the lack of cruising this year, the L&S program, and the large amount of FCC (with bonuses) on the books.  
Although Celebrity pricing had been increasing prior to the shutdown, it was not long ago that you could book a S1 with all the associated benefits for your new price.  
 

I suspect Celebrity may be in for a big surprise when the Final payments are due. (as long as the FCC is refundable). If the FCC has to be used, then it might be a while for the demand returns to normal.

 

[HMR74]

8 minutes ago, jagoffee said:

Are you suggesting that your TA is no longer offering you extra OBC that is refundable if you do not use it?  I would think the TA refundable OBC would be greater due to the higher price.  
 

It sounds like your cancelled cruise had the Best package and your new cruise only has the AI.  If true, you are losing the premium upgrade and have an inferior internet package.

 

IMO the increase you are seeing is not related to the AI, since it is an inferior package to what you previous booked.  I suspect it is related to the increased demand.  Booking demand due the lack of cruising this year, the L&S program, and the large amount of FCC (with bonuses) on the books.  
Although Celebrity pricing had been increasing prior to the shutdown, it was not long ago that you could book a S1 with all the associated benefits for your new price.  
 

I suspect Celebrity may be in for a big surprise when the Final payments are due. (as long as the FCC is refundable). If the FCC has to be used, then it might be a while for the demand returns to normal.

 

No--apples to apples, and my TA is waiting to see what wave season pricing will be. They usually has something from their commission to throw in and supposedly with higher fares the commissions are going higher, and thus the "refundable" OBC should be better. Who knows.

 

Same upgrade to A1 from A2 which is only a couple hundred dollars.

I booked the B2b when it came out as it was the last to use the FCC and I wanted to make sure we were in same cabin for both cruises. Turns out 2 weeks later only 1 more cabin has been booked in aqua and that's just for the Trans Atlantic.

I think a lot of folks are just watching their money, but I have a year to see how things turn out before final payment is due. CD's coming due now pay nothing, not helping seniors, and a lot of folks with  jobs and small family businesses are having a rough time. This is going to take a long time to "repair".

 

I live just a few miles east of you in Libertyville. We used to go to Crossroads or Emils fairly often for broasted Chicken-now just pick up at Emils and Chinese at Hong Kong

Edited December 31, 2020 by HMR74

[HMR74]

I checked with one TA and they begrudgingly would give a little refundable  OBC, and my other, usually pretty good, said to wait til after new years. 

Part of the problem is the pricing scheme. On a 14 day I have received nice refundable and non refundable in addition to what the cruise co had in its package.

However, as I mentioned, that "refundable " kicks in after the cruise.

So its a game--the gross up the price of the cruise to give you a rebate at the end. The problem is if you cancel, you lose the entire price and if you buy insurance you pay more to cover that extra amount.

 

So its not as simple as just netting the refundable OBC. And the new pricing scheme AI is not all that different than last years "Sail Away" deal where you had no perks, then the choice  of 1 3 or 4. or just pay a few thousand more and you can have a suite with everything including laundry.

for my cruises I do not even know the price of the streaming internet or the premium drinks. Or the classic for that matter, all I know is the price is high at Aqua, and higher at 10k+ for a jr suite. for a transatlantic.

 

I was promised a call back yesterday from a Sunday tele call with Celebrity-still  waiting.

 

[jagoffee]

1 hour ago, HMR74 said:

No--apples to apples, and my TA is waiting to see what wave season pricing will be. They usually has something from their commission to throw in and supposedly with higher fares the commissions are going higher, and thus the "refundable" OBC should be better. Who knows.

 

Same upgrade to A1 from A2 which is only a couple hundred dollars.

I booked the B2b when it came out as it was the last to use the FCC and I wanted to make sure we were in same cabin for both cruises. Turns out 2 weeks later only 1 more cabin has been booked in aqua and that's just for the Trans Atlantic.

I think a lot of folks are just watching their money, but I have a year to see how things turn out before final payment is due. CD's coming due now pay nothing, not helping seniors, and a lot of folks with  jobs and small family businesses are having a rough time. This is going to take a long time to "repair".

 

I live just a few miles east of you in Libertyville. We used to go to Crossroads or Emils fairly often for broasted Chicken-now just pick up at Emils and Chinese at Hong Kong

Small world.  Love their boasted chicken.  I enjoy it frequently.  My DW and I also like the pizza at Emils. 

We have lived on the golf course for 20 years.  The previous 18 years we lived in Cambridge West near the lake and park.  All our kids went to LHS.

 

 Our next scheduled cruise is an Apex TA on October 21 that we booked when it was first released.  Even that cruise was more expensive than previous Celebrity TAs.  We have a large FCC from a non Covid related cancellation that needed to be applied to another cruise.  We are hoping that cruises are operating at that time.  We will be arriving in the US just pasted the scheduled expiration of the latest CDC order.  By the time our final payment is due, we will have a better idea.

Good luck with your decisions.

[HMR74]

Thanks Jagoffee-

 

We actually have lived backing to the White Deer Run course for the last 20 years, after 25  in the bigger house with kids. So sounds similar to you and so we would have been a quick walk from each other.

 

I am now looking at smaller ship specialty cruises like a Viking river cruise, or Mediterranean Viking cruise which roughly cost the same as Celebrity's new pricing,. And they include airfare. That's on our list to do anyway.

 

I looked at the edge TA and Med--the med 7 day on Edge was nearly as much as the 11 day on Reflection. And I have no issues with Solstice.

 

Might as well think out of the box.

 

Emil's burgers are great also. Wish Celebrity's burgers were like Emils-one of the few disappointments about Celebrity's food.

 

[jagoffee]

We had a great time on our first 14 river cruise in September 2019.  A totally different experience and we totally enjoyed it.  We did the Rhine, Main, and Danube.  A lot of companies have the same itinerary including Viking.  Some of our friends did a Viking Oceania cruise and said it was excellent.

[tfred]

20 hours ago, HMR74 said:

Thanks Jagoffee-

 

We actually have lived backing to the White Deer Run course for the last 20 years, after 25  in the bigger house with kids. So sounds similar to you and so we would have been a quick walk from each other.

 

I am now looking at smaller ship specialty cruises like a Viking river cruise, or Mediterranean Viking cruise which roughly cost the same as Celebrity's new pricing,. And they include airfare. That's on our list to do anyway.

 

I looked at the edge TA and Med--the med 7 day on Edge was nearly as much as the 11 day on Reflection. And I have no issues with Solstice.

 

Might as well think out of the box.

 

Emil's burgers are great also. Wish Celebrity's burgers were like Emils-one of the few disappointments about Celebrity's food.

 

I think that "looking elsewhere" is part of a natural cycle choosing cruises.  X is very good and is trying to keep better, higher paying pax from drifting away, especially upwards towards premium lines - Viking Ocean, Oceania.  I think their thoughts are giving the next level up experience with all the options that a bigger boat can only do - more elaborate entertainment, more specialty restaurants.  

 

We were on Oceania last year and did a Crystal River cruise - actually two of those.  All were great and made us wonder if we were enamored with X as we thought were were.  Still like X but as the number goes up we start looking elsewhere.  The  X product is great, just don't need a big boat

 

Regularly offering discounted, last minute cruises to Florida retirees is no ones business plan.  Well maybe HAL, and look where they are 

[HMR74]

on the Florida issue, and CA to an extent, I know a number of retired couples, on nice pensions, who would last minute grab an "X" cruise, and go on more than a few each year. But its a segment that pays low prices so its the filler that helps cruise line cash flow.

 

That's why when I read RCL'S financials they discuss occupancy is  or was, rather high.

 

My wife and adult daughters went on a Princess cruise 3-4 years ago mostly because it was at a time they wanted to go. They had one of the read aft suites with extra space including bath and a half and separate beds for the three of them.

 

They had a good time because they were together.

But the wife said it  does not compare to X.

The youngest went on a Crystal Med cruise for honeymoon and loved it.

 

In the end its all about price and perceived value from an individuals perspective.

We enjoy good quality leisurely meals in a relatively quiet environment so we can talk or talk to "neighbors" and  do not intend to spend time in cabin so we go Aqua and Blu. Generally like to sit down at around 8 for dinner and then listen to music someplace. (the bar outside Blu/Quisine is nice background music.

 

We are happy but now a 14 day Viking river cruise is about the same $$ as the 11 day Med cruise on X. And the euro river cruises are on our bucket list. We would do that  in April May before the rivers dry up and we would need to use buses. A royal pain in the rear.

 

Great to have a place where we can share ideas to make our experiences better. As we age, we get more selective on how we spend our time,  rather than  money-however, we do not want to waste either.

 

 

[HMR74]

Got a question for this group, On Cruise insurance.

When you received the FCC how did the insurance company react? Did you or could you file a claim?

 

Lets say you had paid in full and with Cruise with Confidence, you get a full FCC and a credit on air fairs from airline. How did the insurance co handle that outside of the covid issue which they are now excluding?

Any experiences?

We have the May 5 2022 hard date coming up to cruise and 12/31/21 date to book, and diminishing space on ships left, however between higher, really higher prices, I may let my credits for deposits expire and consider it a lost cause.

 

Re my earlier post in that we have to spend a fortune to get the money back, even with a 125% "credit".

Eg, and repeating, I had 11,400 or so cost  in 2 14 day cruises with only nrd 1800 of deposit. A 14 and 11 day cruise now costs 17,000--so in my twisted logic, its costing me 5600 to get 1800 of my money back. Since hte new cruise is 3 days less, and a TA, the daily cost is far more.

 

There was nothing close to a lift and shift for theB2b I had. So even with a 125% credit that would have been 14k to use  and change vs the 17k--3k more  for a shorter period on ships. And getting OBC is up in the air for the new cruises.

 

Not simple any more--the extra cost used to be a 14 day cruise in Aqua.

 

 

 

 

 

[zitsky]

52 minutes ago, tfred said:

I think that "looking elsewhere" is part of a natural cycle choosing cruises.  X is very good and is trying to keep better, higher paying pax from drifting away, especially upwards towards premium lines - Viking Ocean, Oceania.  I think their thoughts are giving the next level up experience with all the options that a bigger boat can only do - more elaborate entertainment, more specialty restaurants.  

 

We were on Oceania last year and did a Crystal River cruise - actually two of those.  All were great and made us wonder if we were enamored with X as we thought were were.  Still like X but as the number goes up we start looking elsewhere.  The  X product is great, just don't need a big boat

 

Regularly offering discounted, last minute cruises to Florida retirees is no ones business plan.  Well maybe HAL, and look where they are 

 

We were/are Viking customers who found X after a good cruise with NCL.  We like Blu/Aqua because it imitates our experience on NCL where we were invited to the suite restaurant Cagney's for breakfast, lunch, dinner.  (Because I think that I offered to be CC host.)

 

I am looking to book another X cruise in Europe late 2021, also in Aqua.  Depends on how the vaccine goes in treating the mutated Covid-19 virus.

[wrk2cruise]

2 hours ago, HMR74 said:

Lets say you had paid in full and with Cruise with Confidence, you get a full FCC and a credit on air fairs from airline. How did the insurance co handle that outside of the covid issue which they are now excluding?

Any experiences?

 

Insurance isn't going to cover now as you have the FCC.   You may have a chance after the FCC/voucher expires as then you would have suffered the loss, not before.   You probably want to post on the insurance thread where there are some experts who will respond.

[zitsky]

3 minutes ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

Insurance isn't going to cover now as you have the FCC.   You may have a chance after the FCC/voucher expires as then you would have suffered the loss, not before.   You probably want to post on the insurance thread where there are some experts who will respond.

 

I have FCC from a cruise I canceled.  Had insurance and they are letting me transfer it to a new cruise.

[HMR74]

1 hour ago, zitsky said:

 

I have FCC from a cruise I canceled.  Had insurance and they are letting me transfer it to a new cruise.

did the ins co  compensate you for the full loss?

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, HMR74 said:

did the ins co  compensate you for the full loss?

 

There was no loss which is why I can transfer it.  I made no claims.  Cruise line and airline gave me credits.

[HMR74]

ok, so let me summarize, you paid insurance for a vacation, which had to be cancelled , however, you received credits for use against future cruises and flights.That's the cruise with confidence at work.

 

So then , the ins company did not pay as you did not have a loss, except you had a loss of cash.

 

Now, when you use the credits, will the insurance co transfer the old policy to the new cruise? Or, do you have to pay for a new policy?

 

Yeah, I know there is a board for insurance, but here we have real discussions with real experiences. And its all tied into the total net cost of a trip.

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by HMR74

[zitsky]

2 hours ago, HMR74 said:

ok, so let me summarize, you paid insurance for a vacation, which had to be cancelled , however, you received credits for use against future cruises and flights.That's the cruise with confidence at work.

 

So then , the ins company did not pay as you did not have a loss, except you had a loss of cash.

 

Now, when you use the credits, will the insurance co transfer the old policy to the new cruise? Or, do you have to pay for a new policy?

 

Yeah, I know there is a board for insurance, but here we have real discussions with real experiences. And its all tied into the total net cost of a trip.

 

 

 

 

Yes I did say the insurance co lets me transfer to a new cruise.

 

It was before cruise with confidence.  It was FCC.

[HMR74]

57 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Yes I did say the insurance co lets me transfer to a new cruise.

 

It was before cruise with confidence.  It was FCC.

good-that means the system is working at least somewhat properly.

 

I was about to buy an annual out of the country health care policy as a supplement to medicare just before covid, as we were planning several trips this last year. Right now it looks like the first half of 21 is wasted even if they start slowing in March.

 

Just read an LA times article that nearly half of CAL  hospital professionals are refusing to take vaccine. Not a surprise. I read the Pfizer and Moderna trial docs and buried in both are issues. They needed more time to develop it and more time to see results. Trials are supposed to do that, but these are being emergency use approved, which says between the lines,  short cuts have been taken. .

 

 

 

[Ride-The-Waves]

Celebrity is putting "lipstick on a pig" with all their obfuscation.  Selling the same pre-COVID cruise for higher $$$ and offering nothing additional.  Horrible way to keep loyal customers.  But then, maybe they don't want loyalty and prefer to tease new customers, who don't know the past, with higher prices.

 

We have sailed Celebrity for over 20 years.  Had some great cruises to include on the "R" ships now Azamara.  Last 4 years we have also branched out to Princess since their Royal class are very comparable to Solstice, maybe even better.  We recently booked a March 2022 TA on Sky Princess, a newish Royal, in a 400+ sq ft suite.  Similar accommodations on Celebrity were almost double.  And the difference in experiences expected is obviously much less than double - quite the same, in fact.

 

I can't envision sailing Celebrity at these ludicrous prices.  More lipstick still makes the ship the same pig.

[zitsky]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Celebrity is putting "lipstick on a pig" with all their obfuscation.  Selling the same pre-COVID cruise for higher $$$ and offering nothing additional.  Horrible way to keep loyal customers.  But then, maybe they don't want loyalty and prefer to tease new customers, who don't know the past, with higher prices.

 

We have sailed Celebrity for over 20 years.  Had some great cruises to include on the "R" ships now Azamara.  Last 4 years we have also branched out to Princess since their Royal class are very comparable to Solstice, maybe even better.  We recently booked a March 2022 TA on Sky Princess, a newish Royal, in a 400+ sq ft suite.  Similar accommodations on Celebrity were almost double.  And the difference in experiences expected is obviously much less than double - quite the same, in fact.

 

I can't envision sailing Celebrity at these ludicrous prices.  More lipstick still makes the ship the same pig.

 

Don't know the past is right.  I can compare just one cruise to today, the Caribbean i cancelled in 2020.  But in researching new European cruises in 2021, I have nothing to compare to.  I wish there was a wikipedia of past X cruise prices.

[HMR74]

21 minutes ago, zitsky said:

 

Don't know the past is right.  I can compare just one cruise to today, the Caribbean i cancelled in 2020.  But in researching new European cruises in 2021, I have nothing to compare to.  I wish there was a wikipedia of past X cruise prices.

I keep my folders on past cruise planning, so I know to the penny the price from Celebrity, and the perks including all sorts of OBC which over the years have been all over the place incl OBC from TA's.

 

A year ago today I booked 2 cruises which were obviously cancelled, with nice OBC above the full perk package. As soon as "wave" ended Celebrity came out with its sail away strategy which gave the customer a choice of a stripped down cruises with grats  or like a chinese menu added deals for 2 or 4 perks--we all should recall that, but when they introduced those bargains, the price on the cruise went up by 1,000 for each cruise.

That complicated things including the inability to see lower prices. There were lower prices for 1 day as I recall, and I missed it .

 

Its kind of like car pricing where they have packages  , and then list prices and negotiating how much off list , or like I was able to do on my last car, received 3 full details  for the car for as long as 5 years, and some service coupons for tire discounts which are non refundable and use it or lose it.

 

How many here have used non refundable OBC near the end of the cruise to buy an Ipad (if the store has it in stock) or watch or something just to use the OBC?  I have used the OBC for (overpriced)  excursions where time was tight and I did not want to risk missing the ship-long shot for that to happen but a real pain in the rear if it happens. Like going to Rome or Seville for the day. My wife cost justifies using use it or lose it OBC on Spa, rather than specialty restaurants.

 

[zitsky]

I've been calculating price per person per day.  Doesn't help me to compare last year to this, but gives me something to use.

[d9704011]

1 minute ago, zitsky said:

I've been calculating price per person per day.  Doesn't help me to compare last year to this, but gives me something to use.

I do pretty much the same thing (I try to use an all inclusive; grats, beverages and wi-fi).  What I really need is some way to adjust for the ‘outlier’ itineraries i.e. lower for repo and TA, higher for Europe, Baltic and ‘unusual’ destinations.

[HMR74]

57 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

I do pretty much the same thing (I try to use an all inclusive; grats, beverages and wi-fi).  What I really need is some way to adjust for the ‘outlier’ itineraries i.e. lower for repo and TA, higher for Europe, Baltic and ‘unusual’ destinations.

we too calculate cost per day. But in any event you have to do apples to apples.

This last one we cancelled a day before final amount due Was Singapore to Nam and Bangkok, then Singapore to Australia, and Great Barrier reef.28 days total. and that's a huge difference. between what we  did was rebook with TA in 2022 and then an 11 day Med cruise.

The old one was 11,400 before  refundable OBCS and this one is 17000 and probably 1000 of refundable OBCS  (or a debit card).

 

So 16000 for 25 days is $640 a day

 

The cancelled was 11,400 minus 1700 of refundable net or 9700 or 346 a day--hmm, as I knew its really 84% more.

Unless I get a load of refundables, and that might not cut it.

my wife came up with my original idea, two B2n carribean cruises lower level balcony next winter  no drinks. That way we can use our 1800 FCC efficiently.

 

For all I care we can have2 no ports cruises, as the islands all look the same to me.

Which raises the issue of sandals resorts, but we would like to see different places. I am in the end not a beach person.

 

Our TA on Infinity just 2 years ago was a 14 day in Aqua was 241 a day for the two of us, incl internet taxes and grats, but no drinks . The price of cruising has tripled from spring 2019 to 2022?? Oil is the same now or lower, food has not gone up much  but the protocols have.

Celebrity is pricing this thing way too high.

 

I guess they will cover lifts and shifts, and the 125% replacement (no bargain when you think about it)

 

Then they have a problem.

 

The ore I dig into this, the more I think I will cancel.

I will cal Celebrity tomorrow as I was supposed to have a supervisory person with authority to do more than a courtesy 100 OBC delve into an administrative lift and shift of my lower cost trip to this higher, much higher cost trip.

 

That call was supposed to be by 4 days ago--did they call someone else here by mistake?

 

Another issue I had this time around. After applying my  FCC to the new trip, when I called about the"Birthday" special e mail (100 cabin OBC) I was told it did not apply to me. Huh? The guy gave in and gave me a credit, but then said I had to pay in the port and other taxes and that was a new policy. So I gave him my Celebrity credit card and it was done.

The next morning I said Huh to myself and called and the next person said not a new policy and created a credit which showed up on line in the Celebrity Cruise account for me but still has not shown up on my credit card as a credit. Its been 2 weeks now so time to complain about that.

 

Love the Celebrity Cruise experience, dislike the front office and administration experience. Which is which I am telling each person there.This was before covid. And worse now.  I want to know when the Celebrity Customer is right?  I do not like to air this on a board, but they are asking for it.