Cruise Credit Scam ?

[cruzintheocean]

As a seasoned cruiser who has over 10 cruises booked and have re-booked them several times and have received the 25% bonus, I am concerned. I am not so concerned about the Cruise Lines going under, I am concerned that they are knowingly allowing rebooking on ships and sailings that they know will not sail in order to lure us into taking the 25% bonus, only to then cancel that sailing as well and trap us into a booking that is no longer qualified for a refund but just a future cruise credit. The problem I am finding is that, for example, they are keeping  say a $1000 of my money and giving me a $250 bonus, only to find that a similar future cruise is now $2000. I am left having to pay an additional $750 for the same cruise that I originally booked, or I loose all my money. And if I have two of those booked I can not even combine them. It is starting to look like a Ponzi scheme. Any thoughts.

[JRG]

Welcome to the Club!

 

Lucky for us,   we were early-birding exclusive rates and building our cruise portfolio well before the pandemonia,  so we have been cruising alot for the last 4 years thus we were finding alot of great deals that are too low to mention here on future bookings.   

 

It was alot of fun 'racking and stacking' and pouncing on upgrade chances until we ended up with great value by cruising time but that golden window has closed.

 

Most of our bookings now been 'lifted and shifted' (or will be) though so we know how you feel and the relative value have been diluted, but still because we bought in cheap we are ending up with great sailing values, albeit under different crusing protocols.

 

Still in the long run we should be okay.

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by JRG
typo

[sfaaa]

You had the option to ask for a refund and didn't. Too late to be concerned now.

[klfrodo]

22 hours ago, cruzintheocean said:

 

. Any thoughts.

Yep.

My thoughts are this

1. Smart business decision on the part of the cruiseline to offer these deals.

2. The greed of the consumer wanting to receive that "free" OBC (how stupid of the cruiseline to give me free money) is just mind boggling.

[ColeThornton]

People need to exercise a little common sense and not give any companies that are desperate for cash flow their hard earned money.   Five minutes worth of research would show how completely unstable and unpredictable the industry is right now.

 

I'm normally very empathetic but..come on, folks.

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

[Turtles06]

1 hour ago, sfaaa said:

You had the option to ask for a refund and didn't. Too late to be concerned now.

 

35 minutes ago, ColeThornton said:

People need to exercise a little common sense and not give any companies that are desperate for cash flow their hard earned money.   Five minutes worth of research would show how completely unstable and unpredictable the industry is right now.

 

I'm normally very empathetic but..come on, folks.

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

 

I'm thinking along the same lines.  I don't believe anyone was forced to take FCCs rather than a refund.  If someone has rolled the dice and taken an FCC (instead of a refund) because of some "bonus" amount -- purely on paper - that was that person's choice, wasn't it? And since the cruise lines set the prices, I don't think it should come as a great surprise that prices for future cruises have risen, especially since the cruise industry has been hit so hard by the pandemic.

[Nic6318]

Hi Cruzintheocean

 

Sorry, are you really only just realizing that now. So many people have been trying to suggest for quite some time that while what they (all the cruise lines) have been doing appears to have few downsides, there are a few. 

 

Also curious, why do you say you are not so concerned about any given cruise line "going under". That always has been and still is a major concern. I understand many on this site have said that they don't care if they lose money due to insolvency. But you/they can't come back here, let's say, in July or August if that were to happen and complain about how the companies have been stringing everyone along all this time. 

 

They are and always were hoping for the best, just as yourself. If things don't turn out the way you/they planned, it's nobody's fault. It's a decision that is made, sometimes people make the wrong decision.  

[iancal]

On 12/24/2020 at 11:03 AM, cruzintheocean said:

As a seasoned cruiser who has over 10 cruises booked and have re-booked them several times and have received the 25% bonus, I am concerned. I am not so concerned about the Cruise Lines going under, I am concerned that they are knowingly allowing rebooking on ships and sailings that they know will not sail in order to lure us into taking the 25% bonus, only to then cancel that sailing as well and trap us into a booking that is no longer qualified for a refund but just a future cruise credit. The problem I am finding is that, for example, they are keeping  say a $1000 of my money and giving me a $250 bonus, only to find that a similar future cruise is now $2000. I am left having to pay an additional $750 for the same cruise that I originally booked, or I loose all my money. And if I have two of those booked I can not even combine them. It is starting to look like a Ponzi scheme. Any thoughts.

I agree with you.   In fact, I take it one step further.  I suspect that the cruise lines are artificially increasing cruise prices in order to 'absorb' those FCC funds and to encourage those who have not already booked to do so 'before the prices go even higher'.   Creating urgency and offering what appears to be wonderful savings are key parts of a travel marketing program.  When I was in sales the easiest sale was to someone whose only focus was price/discount.

 

What will be interesting to see is how cruise lines, and other travel vendors, deal with the shrinking timeframes allotted to some of their non cash refund offers.

 

 This is a completely artificial market in our view.  We would not book any cruise with as many unknowns as currently exist in the marketplace.   Increasing prices are absolutely meaningless to us.  Our travel options are many, cruising is just one.  If we consider the price high and the value low vis a vis other travel options we simply pass.

Edited December 25, 2020 by iancal

[Hlitner]

My only thought about the OP's post is "what took you so long?"  There have been many posts here on CC about these kind of issues.   But why be concerned?  If you are uncomfortable with FCCs you should have simply taken refunds and not booked any cruises until all this COVID stuff is history.

 

Hank

[Roger88]

1 hour ago, ColeThornton said:

People need to exercise a little common sense and not give any companies that are desperate for cash flow their hard earned money.   Five minutes worth of research would show how completely unstable and unpredictable the industry is right now.

 

I'm normally very empathetic but..come on, folks.

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

Do you even imagine how much money they lost this year? And not only them, they got like 10ths of thousands employees who have lost their jobs and who are demanding compensations. They have to make up for those loses. I expect them to raise prices next year 

[iancal]

Cruise line loss positions are not my concern.  Did I go out and buy a GM product when they were on the ropes and loosing money?  No.  Did not even consider it.

 

Raising prices as a single strategy is not  enough.  This assumes a travel marketplace with no other options.  In fact, there a many.  To complicate this even more, cruising is a luxury item.   We passed on a Med cruise last fall in favour of a land trip because of our perception of value.

 

This covid business is far from over. When cruises do start to operate I suspect that there will be issues that preclude a part of their traditional market from buying.

 

I feel sorry for cruise line employees.  I worked in an industry where we shed jobs, many high paying jobs, for each of the past twenty years.  Downsizing and offshoring.  Many other work environments has suffered similar downturns or outright extinction.

 

It will take a long time for the industry to get over this.  Carnival will be announcing is FY20 numbers next month.  RCI the month after.  It would not surprise me to see some significant announcements from each of them over the next few months.  

 

 

Edited December 25, 2020 by iancal

[sfaaa]

Double post

Edited December 25, 2020 by sfaaa

[sfaaa]

Just now, sfaaa said:

Raising prices and cutting costs are inevitable and a necessity in survival mode. Cruise lines have no option B available to them.

 

[Nic6318]

37 minutes ago, Roger88 said:

Do you even imagine how much money they lost this year? And not only them, they got like 10ths of thousands employees who have lost their jobs and who are demanding compensations. They have to make up for those loses. I expect them to raise prices next year 

 

Hi

... and there's the rub. Prices are going up for everything. Even if we can't get anything for our bank deposits, inflation has been significant for our staples. On top of that you can't expect these "mainstream" cruise lines to be able to further increase their prices and be able to compete. Cruising is a niche market in the travel industry. If prices rise too fast people will choose other options. People will not pay a premium price if they are not going to get a premium product. 

 

These companies have borrowed 10's of millions of dollars. There focus has only been on surviving. That is not guaranteed for any of them, even after cruising resumes. They weren't necessarily expecting this to be impacting us into the new year, and yet, here we are. Just as was asked in June, July, and August, if someone asks when cruises will start again, the answer is still, "we don't know". 

[bigrednole]

This is why we are taking a refund when they cancel March.

[iancal]

We would not be interested in being locked into any post  covid FCC timeframe without clearly understanding the on board environment and  the port situation.

[sanger727]

6 hours ago, ColeThornton said:

People need to exercise a little common sense and not give any companies that are desperate for cash flow their hard earned money.   Five minutes worth of research would show how completely unstable and unpredictable the industry is right now.

 

I'm normally very empathetic but..come on, folks.

 

Caveat Emptor.

 

agreed. When the cancellations first started occurring there were realists advising against taking the short term possible gains of the 25% while the eternal optimists kept gloating about booking more and more cruises because 25% was the best return around... course they were glossing over the fact that the 25% is only a real return as long as you have a cruise locked into a good price. Once you are repurchasing at the inflated prices meant to eat up FCC it was a loss over all. Sorry people were slow on the pickup but I don’t really expect any other behavior from businesses going through catastrophic losses right now.

[BlueRiband]

OP, you have been on these boards since 2006.  This is a tough crowd if you were hoping for agreement and sympathy. 
 

Why are you doing business with companies that you believe to be running Ponzi schemes?  Check the T&Cs of your active bookings,  take whatever refunds you can get and.be done with it.

[iancal]

Pick one and move forward.  If it turns out that you selected FCC instead of a cash refund or vice versa it is down to you.  Look in the mirror.  Simply because you made a decision that you regret is not the fault of the cruise line.

 

It is not ALWAYS someone else's fault!

Edited December 26, 2020 by iancal

[Aplmac]

Recently, Carnival is bombarding me

with emails offering delicious prices, discounts, cruises!

I'm ignoring them all.

[ontheweb]

10 hours ago, Aplmac said:

Recently, Carnival is bombarding me

with emails offering delicious prices, discounts, cruises!

I'm ignoring them all.

I am getting e-mails from multiple cruise lines all with headers that promise great prices. They all get deleted unread.

[Aplmac]

Not one cent until cruising really and truly starts back

-in reliable fashion -with nooo hiccups!

 

And that's likely to be May/June, if we're lucky.....

[Joebucks]

The OBC thing is all a gamble. If the shutdown ended 6 months ago, those who took the OBC would have been very happy with their decision. If it goes on another 6 months, who knows.

 

About the Ponzi scheme conspiracy, that's all a bunch of crap. What should cruise lines do, not offer the option of the FCC? Speed up their demise? Cruise prices have no where to go but up. Extra safety processes, constrained inventory, lower capacity, billions in debt, etc etc. Not having the extra OBC isn't going to help offset that. You have every right to make a decision that works for you.