Premium Economy Twice as much as Economy! Ugh

[zdcatc12]

8 hours ago, FredT said:

We looked long and hard at the various "premium economy" options for our cruise last February.  In particular for the return flight from Dubai.  The three domestic "legacy carriers" all sold "premium economy" that really was not, (1" wider seats, 3" more legroom") but the three foreign carriers we looked at (Emerits, Turkish, and Aeroflot) had 10" more legroom (seat pitch) and 3-4" more width.  We ended up choosing Aeroflot, and found their product OUTSTANDING.  The best I can describe is that their premium economy seats were almost identical to what the airlines USED TO call first class seats. (Pan Am/TWA days) and their service was truly while glove.  (And before someone makes a crack about 40 yr old planes, it was a brand new 777) 

 

Before you book, go onto one of the "airline seat guru" sites... they list every airline and every flight.....

I'm pretty sure that none of the "legacy carriers" called it "Premium Economy" if it wasn't. They may have had only 3" more legroom than whatever the economy + is called for that airline, as that is already 3"-4" more than coach. But none of them only have 3" more legroom than STANDARD coach.

[FredT]

7 hours ago, zdcatc12 said:

I'm pretty sure that none of the "legacy carriers" called it "Premium Economy" if it wasn't. They may have had only 3" more legroom than whatever the economy + is called for that airline, as that is already 3"-4" more than coach. But none of them only have 3" more legroom than STANDARD coach.

Well....   I took about 1 minute to look at three routes (NYC,-London, Chicago-London, and Atl-London.   each IS the difference between "typical" economy and the next step up.

 

AA (Main Cabin "Extra")  4" more legroom, 1" wider seat 

UA ( Economy Plus)  3" more legroom,  Same width seat 

DL ( Delta Comfort) 3" more legroom, same width seat 

Virgin (Premium Economy) 6" more legroom, 2" wider seats   (JFK LHR) 

Lufthansa (Premium Economy) 7" more legroom, 2" wider seats (JFK Frankfurt) 

[zdcatc12]

1 hour ago, FredT said:

Well....   I took about 1 minute to look at three routes (NYC,-London, Chicago-London, and Atl-London.   each IS the difference between "typical" economy and the next step up.

 

AA (Main Cabin "Extra")  4" more legroom, 1" wider seat 

UA ( Economy Plus)  3" more legroom,  Same width seat 

DL ( Delta Comfort) 3" more legroom, same width seat 

Virgin (Premium Economy) 6" more legroom, 2" wider seats   (JFK LHR) 

Lufthansa (Premium Economy) 7" more legroom, 2" wider seats (JFK Frankfurt) 

It took you a minute to find out that what I said was true for the domestic airlines. What you are showing above is those airlines Economy +, however they named it. The true "premium economy" which is a step up from what you have listed for those airlines are:

AA: Premium Economy

UA: Premium Plus

DL: Premium Select.

 

 These are all better than what you listed above and are usually equal to or better than domestic First Class, as most have leg rests that you do not normally get in Domestic First.

 

 Just because it is the next step up" from "typical" economy doesn't mean that it is "premium economy".

Edited January 16, 2021 by zdcatc12

[FredT]

33 minutes ago, zdcatc12 said:

Just because it is the next step up" from "typical" economy doesn't mean that it is "premium economy".

Well, you may be right on AA, but on the routes I listed for DL and UA, that IS it  (Or as close as they get)....   They go from steerage, to the seats I listed to Business class.  No more width, and only 3" more legroom.   Now they can call it whatever they want, but they DONT offer anything between like the foreign airlines!

[bennybear]

As always caveat emptor!   The different names are very confusing.  And not only that the class can vary on the same airline depending on the type of aircraft.  

Edited January 16, 2021 by bennybear

[zdcatc12]

53 minutes ago, FredT said:

Well, you may be right on AA, but on the routes I listed for DL and UA, that IS it  (Or as close as they get)....   They go from steerage, to the seats I listed to Business class.  No more width, and only 3" more legroom.   Now they can call it whatever they want, but they DONT offer anything between like the foreign airlines!

In your initial post you said that you looked at "premium economy" options. Obviously, the DL and UA were there Comfort + and not Premium Economy. Just because there is a class listed between coach and business doesn't mean that it is Premium Economy.

 

And some of these have four. For example AA has Economy, Main Cabin Extra, Premium Economy and Business. Delta has Economy, Comfort Plus, Premium Select and Delta One.  

 

 You are probably running into issues because not all planes used on International flights have Premium Economy. If one leg does and another doesn't, it will say something along the lines of "class not available on all flights" or something along those lines.

 

 I never use United, but I know for a fact that AA and DL will not price "Premium Economy" if it is not on the aircraft. For AA, it is available on 777s and 787s and on DL it is available on A330-900, A350 and some 767-400s. Also, on Delta's A350, Premium Select is available, but not Comfort Plus. That throws a whole different wrench into the system.

Edited January 16, 2021 by zdcatc12

[FredT]

I'm not having an issue... But there are many, MANY travelers out there who see coach, a "mid level" product, and business class, and are fooled to thinking that they are getting more than 3"more legroom.   AND, the three "legacy" US carriers (And Alaska) are notorious for this.  

 

Caveat Emptor......   and thats all I have to say about this.  

[nini]

2 hours ago, zdcatc12 said:

In your initial post you said that you looked at "premium economy" options. Obviously, the DL and UA were there Comfort + and not Premium Economy. Just because there is a class listed between coach and business doesn't mean that it is Premium Economy.

 

I am the OP. I am using EZAir through Princess. The only categories they

offer are:

Premium Economy

First

Economy

Business

 

I do a mock booking and can compare the seats in each class. Then I can

compare the seats with Seat Guru and then do further research with YouTube

or other websites who write up various reviews.

 

Everyone here has been very helpful.

[iancal]

We are looking at 2 international options for late fall.  Economy/Premium/Business priced (all CAD) at$873/2586/3175 and $844/1709/3600.

 

YYC-CMN/ LIS-YYZ   and YYC-ATH/CDG-YYZ

Edited January 16, 2021 by iancal

[bennybear]

3 hours ago, iancal said:

We are looking at 2 international options for late fall.  Economy/Premium/Business priced (all CAD) at$873/2586/3175 and $844/1709/3600.

 

YYC-CMN/ LIS-YYZ   and YYC-ATH/CDG-YYZ

Again depends on airline and aircraft and of course budget if it’s worth it. Just avoid Rouge!  A cruise would allow access to their pricing.

Edited January 17, 2021 by bennybear

[sverigecruiser]

On 1/15/2021 at 3:16 PM, Zach1213 said:

 in Europe, most airlines don't even have true first class, they have the middle seat blocked out of a regular 3x3 economy setup. Straight trash. 

 

Most (all?) airlines in the US don't have true first class either. They may call it first but the standard is much more like international business class and not "true" first class. 

 

There is no reason to book business class on shorthaul within Europe to get a better seat because as you said most of the times the seats are the same as in economy. We book business class when flying within Europe to get the other perks (fast lane security, loungeaccess, priority boarding, free food and drinks and a seat in front of the plane) and only because normally it doesn't cost much more than economy. A better seat is not needed for a two hour flight, I think. 

[waterbug123]

On 1/15/2021 at 12:57 PM, nini said:

 I know some airlines like Alaska could at least use their "Premium" or

"Elite" seating when you pay this higher rate.

And I imagine that other airlines like American, Delta also have this type of "plushier"

seats that are not First Class.

 

On 1/15/2021 at 1:43 PM, Zach1213 said:

 

Premium Class on Alaska is essentially just a few extra inches of legroom and a free drink...far from truly premium. It's essentially the same thing as AA Main Cabin Extra and Delta Comfort +. It's nice, but nothing premium like a true, international premium product that usually has wider seats (in addition to more legroom), better meals, and perhaps a couple of other perks. 

 

Exactly.  Be careful calling those economy plus/comfort plus products "plushier seats."  First, the seat itself is the exact same seat as in regular economy....same exact seat, no additional width, they usually say extra recline but the additional amount is so miniscule many would be hard-pressed to notice the difference, and the seat amenities are the same as economy...no additional storage pockets, TV screen if offered is the same size and so forth.

What they offer is a few extra inches of legroom and maybe earlier boarding.  On Delta alcoholic beverages are included, but if it's a flight that includes a meal, it's the same exact meal as in regular economy.

 

[nini]

20 hours ago, bennybear said:

Again depends on airline and aircraft and of course budget if it’s worth it. Just avoid Rouge!  A cruise would allow access to their pricing.

Thank you about Rogue. That is what I have heard as well.