Vaccine proof not good enough

[ace2542]

5 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

And how do you know those numbers? Funny all the stuff you pull out of thin air. 🙄  It’s laughable. 

CNN has said 400k so far and we have about 82k so far. We have 90k "excess deaths" in this country as opposed to last year when this was not here. If that excess death figures is accurate then I would say 82k is on the money. They reckon over time with mutations the effectiveness of vaccines will not always be 90 plus percent. It will drop. So you are going to see thousands and thousands more every year aren't you?

Edited January 20, 2021 by ace2542

[Shidah]

12 hours ago, david_sobe said:

You are free to live your life as you wish. However, I doubt any cruise line will allow passengers to board without proof of a vaccine. They have been through enough already.  I feel for you to see a vaccine in political terms.  I remember the good ole days when no children were allowed in public schools without their vaccinations. I remember I had all of my vaccinations except the mumps.  My mother got the notice that I did not get vaccinated for the mumps, I would not be allowed in school.  Guess what?  I got vaccinated for the mumps.  Vaccines save lives.  Look how they have snuffed out Polio, Measles, Mumps, small pox, etc.  This Covid vaccine is so simple and nothing experimental.  Injecting dead virus into your body so your immune system can build up immunity just like so many other viruses.  It has always been the government that has had to nudge people to get vaccinated.  It used to be radical left tree huggers that were anti-vaccines.  But now its an alt right because they believe acknowledging a virus or wearing a mask is a sign of weakness.  Very sad.  You don't do it just for your family but your fellow human beings.

Most vaccines are what you describe, and the AstraZeneca one if ever approved in the US will be.  But the 2 current ones are not.  It is a mRNA made in a lab injected that is coded to train your body to recognize the virus.  It has never been approved or used before.  So I can completely understand people not wanting it.  So many health care professionals are even refusing.  I personally don’t want it, but if it required to travel will bite the bullet and get it.

[latebloomer56]

15 hours ago, david_sobe said:

You are free to live your life as you wish. However, I doubt any cruise line will allow passengers to board without proof of a vaccine. They have been through enough already.  I feel for you to see a vaccine in political terms.  I remember the good ole days when no children were allowed in public schools without their vaccinations. I remember I had all of my vaccinations except the mumps.  My mother got the notice that I did not get vaccinated for the mumps, I would not be allowed in school.  Guess what?  I got vaccinated for the mumps.  Vaccines save lives.  Look how they have snuffed out Polio, Measles, Mumps, small pox, etc.  This Covid vaccine is so simple and nothing experimental.  Injecting dead virus into your body so your immune system can build up immunity just like so many other viruses.  It has always been the government that has had to nudge people to get vaccinated.  It used to be radical left tree huggers that were anti-vaccines.  But now its an alt right because they believe acknowledging a virus or wearing a mask is a sign of weakness.  Very sad.  You don't do it just for your family but your fellow human beings.

I don't even get the flu shot it has nothing to do with politics I know vaccines are important my children received all their Dr. said they needed. I have a deep fear of needles and avoid them whenever possible, just thinking of this has me ill. I will never drive up for this or even walk through a tent for it. If I must I will go through my Dr. with my husband taking care of me as he always has.

I so very much need my cruise fix :(.

 

[roger001]

2 minutes ago, latebloomer56 said:

I don't even get the flu shot it has nothing to do with politics I know vaccines are important my children received all their Dr. said they needed. I have a deep fear of needles and avoid them whenever possible, just thinking of this has me ill. I will never drive up for this or even walk through a tent for it. If I must I will go through my Dr. with my husband taking care of me as he always has.

I so very much need my cruise fix :(.

 

I've never been thrilled with needles and never, never look as I get an injections.   but...I gotta tell you, needles and shots have come a long way.  The last few shots I've received, including the Covid vaccine, I swear I didn't now I got it.  With the Covid shot I asked the person if she was sure she gave it to me.  She held the needle up for me to see and the liquid was empty.  So, just don't look, fear not, and you probably won't feel a thing.   

[logan25]

8 minutes ago, roger001 said:

I've never been thrilled with needles and never, never look as I get an injections.   but...I gotta tell you, needles and shots have come a long way.  The last few shots I've received, including the Covid vaccine, I swear I didn't now I got it.  With the Covid shot I asked the person if she was sure she gave it to me.  She held the needle up for me to see and the liquid was empty.  So, just don't look, fear not, and you probably won't feel a thing.   

Slightly OT.  But if needles can be made painless, why does my dental professional use old technology?  I have to grip the chair every time she gives an injection.  Discuss.

Edited January 20, 2021 by logan25

[hallux]

4 minutes ago, logan25 said:

But if needles can be made painless, why does my dental professional use old technology?  I have to grip the chair every time she gives an injection.

My dentist is pretty good in that regard.

 

It was kind of funny - when I got my Flu shot I asked the pharmacist how long I needed to wait before giving blood as I had a donation scheduled 2 weeks after I got the Flu shot.  He said that was fine, then he went on to give the vaccination and was explaining about the pinch from the needle and I had to remind him that I had JUST asked about blood donation which uses a MUCH larger needle...

[ace2542]

47 minutes ago, logan25 said:

Slightly OT.  But if needles can be made painless, why does my dental professional use old technology?  I have to grip the chair every time she gives an injection.  Discuss.

Maybe because she needs to inject nerve and not muscle? Or maybe she is just a sadist or a butcher?. In the old days dentists were known as butchers at least here in UK because all they would do was take teeth out. But that was all they could before root canal procedures were developed. Here in UK some dentists names struck terror into people's hearts.

[dcipjr]

I think a lot will depend on whether the vaccines are proven to prevent transmission. Preliminary data suggests the Pfizer and Moderna ones do, but experts are still studying and gathering more data. We'll probably know for sure as the year goes on.

 

It's important, because if the vaccines only prevent symptoms, a vaccinated person could theoretically spread the disease to others. Experts aren't sure whether this would actually happen, because vaccinated people would presumably be asymptomatic, so the chances of transmission theoretically would be less, but they're just not sure.

 

Let's say the vaccines can prevent transmission, so vaccinated people can't spread the virus at all. This would mean it's much safer to cruise, provided the cruise line requires some proof of vaccination—even if it were just a paper certificate. Could/would people fake that proof? Possibly, but if the vast majority don't, the effect should be the same—no need to let the perfect be the enemy of the good when it comes to vaccine proof.

 

One important consideration: kids. Currently, only adults can be vaccinated. Until my three year-old is vaccinated, no way are we bringing her on a cruise; sure, most kids seem to have mild symptoms, if any, but there's enough reports of long-term damage to the lungs that I want to avoid her getting it, if at all possible. For us, certainly a cruise wouldn't be worth the risk until the chances of her getting COVID would be the same (or less) than any other circulating illness (like the flu) that one doesn't want to get.

 

Once the three of us are vaccinated? Heck yeah, I'll cruise!

 

I am not super optimistic about getting on a cruise this year, but that's less about the virus and more about how we have family abroad that we haven't seen in a while, and we'll have to visit them first before we sail off to a tropical island.

 

I think by the end of the year it will be safe to cruise.

Edited January 20, 2021 by dcipjr

[ReneeFLL]

On 1/17/2021 at 3:56 PM, ace2542 said:

This will never be snuffed out. It will be here forever and kill 400k americans and 82k brits every year vaccine or no vaccine.

It took us about a year to hit those numbers without a vaccine. With a vaccine the numbers will go down. Saying we are going to continue to have the same amount of deaths every year is not true and just fear mongering. 🙄🙄🙄

 

9 hours ago, ReneeFLL said:

And how do you know those numbers? Funny all the stuff you pull out of thin air. 🙄  It’s laughable. 

 

4 hours ago, ace2542 said:

CNN has said 400k so far and we have about 82k so far. We have 90k "excess deaths" in this country as opposed to last year when this was not here. If that excess death figures is accurate then I would say 82k is on the money. They reckon over time with mutations the effectiveness of vaccines will not always be 90 plus percent. It will drop. So you are going to see thousands and thousands more every year aren't you?

Now you're changing your story. Can't have it both ways. 🙄🙄🙄

[ace2542]

2 minutes ago, ReneeFLL said:

Now you're changing your story. Can't have it both ways. 🙄🙄🙄

If the effectiveness of vaccine drop won't more people get infected and die?. Some experts reckon in the future they might not be able to get vaccines that are 95% effective.

[Trimone]

Saga holidays of which cater for the more mature traveller has issued this statement: 

[ReneeFLL]

8 minutes ago, ace2542 said:

If the effectiveness of vaccine drop won't more people get infected and die?. Some experts reckon in the future they might not be able to get vaccines that are 95% effective.

You need to quit listening to those experts because you are listening to the wrong ones. Done here with all of your questions. It's just sad that you like to continue to spread false info.

Edited January 20, 2021 by ReneeFLL

[ReneeFLL]

4 minutes ago, Trimone said:

Saga holidays of which cater for the more mature traveller has issued this statement: 

Glad to hear they will require someone to be vaccinated before they can cruise.

[ReneeFLL]

1 hour ago, ReneeFLL said:

Glad to hear they will require someone to be vaccinated before they can cruise.

That's supposed to be everyone and not someone. 😀

Edited January 20, 2021 by ReneeFLL

[ziggyuk]

[rigs32]

I would not be surprised if cruiselines require proof of vaccination AND a negative rapid test at the terminal prior to check in.  You can still get covid (though usually milder) after vaccination.  They won't be able to afford (monetarily or PR wise) having a ship with an outbreak.

 

They also need to get all staff vaccinated and who knows when they'll be able to do that.

[Buford T Justiice]

1 hour ago, ziggyuk said:

 

 

So true!

[david_sobe]

4 hours ago, latebloomer56 said:

I don't even get the flu shot it has nothing to do with politics I know vaccines are important my children received all their Dr. said they needed. I have a deep fear of needles and avoid them whenever possible, just thinking of this has me ill. I will never drive up for this or even walk through a tent for it. If I must I will go through my Dr. with my husband taking care of me as he always has.

I so very much need my cruise fix :(.

 

I don't get the flu shot either.  But facts are facts.  A very bad flu season in the USA kills about 60k.  We are over 400k dead.  Nuff said. No comparing Covid to the flu.  I know we all did last January/February but its a very weak and dangerous analogy.

[prov2727]

7 hours ago, logan25 said:

Slightly OT.  But if needles can be made painless, why does my dental professional use old technology?  I have to grip the chair every time she gives an injection.  Discuss.

Skip the needles and go with laser dentistry. Changed my life! the laser numbs the area and then they use the laser to removed most of the decay. So awesome!

[DCGuy64]

I agree on the vaccination requirement, but would issue this caution from personal experience: there's a difference between testing positive for Sars-CoV-2 and being CONTAGIOUS for COVID-19. I recently recovered from the disease, but my doctor said I could continue to test positive for the virus for some time, even though I'm no longer contagious. I think it would be really unfair (but by no means unimaginable) to have passengers in a similar situation be denied boarding on a ship because they tested positive, even though they no longer posed any threat of contagion. My suspicion is that the cruise lines will err on the side of caution and just tell them they can't board. That being said, I can get a letter from my doctor that constitutes what the CDC calls a "documentation of recovery" that, in theory, would still allow someone like me to travel. But that assumes the cruise lines accept it, and that's risky.

[hallux]

1 hour ago, DCGuy64 said:

there's a difference between testing positive for Sars-CoV-2 and being CONTAGIOUS for COVID-19. I recently recovered from the disease, but my doctor said I could continue to test positive for the virus for some time, even though I'm no longer contagious. I think it would be really unfair (but by no means unimaginable) to have passengers in a similar situation be denied boarding on a ship because they tested positive, even though they no longer posed any threat of contagion.

That's why I pointed it out earlier in the thread, though I wasn't as detailed as you.  I'm on day 12 since symptoms (swabbed last Wed. with a positive test result delivered on Friday) and figure I'm 85-90% recovered.

[hamrag]

8 hours ago, logan25 said:

Slightly OT.  But if needles can be made painless, why does my dental professional use old technology?  I have to grip the chair every time she gives an injection.  Discuss.

Change your dentist, simple!

[sanger727]

3 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

I agree on the vaccination requirement, but would issue this caution from personal experience: there's a difference between testing positive for Sars-CoV-2 and being CONTAGIOUS for COVID-19. I recently recovered from the disease, but my doctor said I could continue to test positive for the virus for some time, even though I'm no longer contagious. I think it would be really unfair (but by no means unimaginable) to have passengers in a similar situation be denied boarding on a ship because they tested positive, even though they no longer posed any threat of contagion. My suspicion is that the cruise lines will err on the side of caution and just tell them they can't board. That being said, I can get a letter from my doctor that constitutes what the CDC calls a "documentation of recovery" that, in theory, would still allow someone like me to travel. But that assumes the cruise lines accept it, and that's risky.

 

I don't think you would be able to cruise under this circumstance.  Royal Caribbean included this in their Singapore start up requirements:

"

Guests will also have to undergo another COVID-19 Rapid Antigen Test (ART) at the cruise terminal upon disembarkation at the end of their voyage.

Guests who have tested positive for SARS-CoV-2 in the past 180 days before embarking, or hold a positive serology certificate dated during this timeframe, will not be able to receive a PCR test, and are therefore unable to cruise."

[hallux]

Which then opens the question - how would a refund be handled?  If I book a cruise today, get through final payment, then come down with COVID 6 weeks before the cruise (assuming we're back to standard final payment timelines and refund schedules), I now am unable to sail but can't get a full refund.

 

They'll need to maintain the current final payment and refund schedules in order to accommodate this.  The other concern becomes those that contract the virus but were asymptomatic (a possibility with the vaccine), so they won't know until they go to board and the cruise line tests them (or get a preemptive test for traveling).

 

There are a lot of "what ifs" that need to be answered for this policy...

[seaman11]

The vaccine cards seems pretty easy to fake , its hand written. Also you could still have it and spread it to others with the vaccine.