Cruise line sponsored shore excursions only

[Hangman115]

Reading reports and seeing where getting off the ship will only be allowed if you have booked a cruise ship sponsored excursion.

What will that do abut the local taxi drivers and tour guides that offer similar excursions at lower prices? What about the shopping at the port? When you sit for a shopping talk on the ship. Will they tell you that you must pay the cruise line a fee to take you through the shopping centers at the port. Since doing a walking tour by yourself will no longer be allowed?
 

I would like to get off the ship and walk around Nassau, Cozumel and Costa Maya by myself. I'm in a wheelchair so i cannot book a cruise line excursion since i cannot ride my wheelchair onto those chartered buses. And I would not like being forced to not be allowed off the ship, unless it was a private island the cruise line owns.

[ontheweb]

No one really knows yet if any or all of the mainstream cruise lines will do this. For many of us, the policy of cruise line only excursions to get off in a port will be a dealbreaker.

[clo]

32 minutes ago, ontheweb said:

No one really knows yet if any or all of the mainstream cruise lines will do this. For many of us, the policy of cruise line only excursions to get off in a port will be a dealbreaker.

I think that's a sign that cruising is no where close to resuming. This would be a big deal to do and deal with.

[nascarcruiser]

We flew into Cozumel on January 4th and leave on the 23rd.  It is very strange to see no cruise ships here. There are maybe 25% of the normal tourist population.  Our hotel is maybe at 15% capacity.  Some are still closed or will be closing again.  The cab drivers are getting very fares. Most averaging 1 or 2 a day.  Speaking with workers at several locations and management at the hotel,  they feel strongly based on the current conditions in the world cruising will not restart here until November at the earliest but more like 2022.  One bit of good news, we are told there currently are no cases of Covid19 on the island 

[leaveitallbehind]

15 hours ago, ontheweb said:

No one really knows yet if any or all of the mainstream cruise lines will do this. For many of us, the policy of cruise line only excursions to get off in a port will be a dealbreaker.

CLIA members will be adhering to the guidelines established through the work of RCI Group in partnership with NCL that was presented to and accepted by the CDC for the resumption of US based sailings.  This has been published on, for example, the RCI website and likely found similarly on the other members websites.  One of those protocols is the restriction of passenger disembarkation in ports of call to only those passengers booked on ship sponsored tours.  This is to help limit any exposure off the ship by controlling the on shore experience with those passengers in conjunction with tour operators following agreed upon mask and other social distancing guidelines established by both the island government and the cruise lines as accepted by the CDC for those sailings. 

 

This only applies expressly to US based sailings but is likely to be in place similarly in other regions of the world as well.  Many of the guidelines - this one included - are subject to review and change as the return to cruising expands, and it is hoped that this (among others) will ultimately be lifted once things stabilize.  Wide distribution of the vaccine is expected to be one positive mitigating factor with this.

 

I think it's fair to say that 2021 will largely be a rebooting and rebuilding year with cruising beginning with the now targeted return to limited US based cruising date of May 1 with most cruise lines.  This will start with a limited number of ships per cruise line, operating on limited capacity of around 50%, sailing on short itineraries (mainly with private island and Bahamas).  Over time this will expand in both ship numbers and longer itineraries at higher capacity, but IMO I would guess that this will be a phased roll out that, as mentioned, will take most of 2021.  As most lines are publishing and actively marketing 2022 - 2023 schedules, it seems as well that this will be the likely return to more normal cruising timeframe.

 

For reference I am involved with the travel industry and this information is coming from multiple cruise line webcasts and direct communications as well as CDC information.  As mentioned, the 76 point CLIA return to sailing protocol developed for and conditionally agreed to by the CDC is publicly available.  Unfortunately, this approval requires a number of test runs with both crew and volunteer passengers to confirm cruise line ability to successfully conform to their goals, which is why the current return to sailing date has moved from its original January 1 date to the current May 1 date for passenger sailings.

[sydbarrett]

If, in fact, that becomes the policy, you will not be allowed to walk around port on your own This could substantially increase the cost of the trip so it will be a dealbreaker for some. I am definitely one who prefers to make my own arrangements. I find third party tours to be both cheaper and more fulfilling. I will keep an open mind, though.

[navybankerteacher]

The notion of only cruise line tours for port calls is simply one of many concerns.  Taken with possible mask wearing , no buffets, and social-distancing (which logically must require higher fares) - you have an inter-related set of conditions which makes cruising at all fairly unlikely.

 

There is little point in just focusing on just one, as several deal-breakers are likely to co- exist until COVID is largely in the rear-view mirror— most likely after being brought under control by wide-spread (perhaps mandatory) vaccination.

[BoozinCroozin]

I 100% agree that it is going to impact many if cruise line excursions only. However, in order to get on a vacation again, I will live with it temporarily. If this is the choice to cruise or not to cruise, then I suck it up for 2021. We have a cruise on Mardi Gras to Cozumel, Roatan, and Costa Maya. I would do snorkel tours in Cozumel, beach in Roatan at Carnival's hotel, and Costa Maya just stay on ship probably. Our November cruise would be more of a disappointment though in St Maarten. We have an excursion with a company created from a friend of a friend there. But still, we would go on Carnival's excursions anyway just to vacation again.

[leaveitallbehind]

23 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The notion of only cruise line tours for port calls is simply one of many concerns.  Taken with possible mask wearing , no buffets, and social-distancing (which logically must require higher fares) - you have an inter-related set of conditions which makes cruising at all fairly unlikely.

 

There is little point in just focusing on just one, as several deal-breakers are likely to co- exist until COVID is largely in the rear-view mirror— most likely after being brought under control by wide-spread (perhaps mandatory) vaccination.

To add, you are correct that the traditional buffets are gone, replaced by staff served food courts or other dining venues.  Currently, a valid negative covid test within 5 days to 24 hours of boarding by all passengers will be required. (It will be interesting to see what, if any, impact or change in policy is made relative to vaccines).  Masks will be required for indoor venues (except dining and staterooms) and other outdoor venues where 6 foot social distancing cannot be maintained.  Daily temperature  checks at screening stations around the ship will be required by all (including crew). Etc., etc.

 

So at least for the near term once US based cruising resumes, it will be an interesting scenario.

Edited January 21, 2021 by leaveitallbehind

[leaveitallbehind]

15 hours ago, clo said:

I think that's a sign that cruising is no where close to resuming. This would be a big deal to do and deal with.

Actually the CLIA cruise lines have been ready to return to US based cruising since September, which is when the return to cruising protocols was completed, and cleared to conditionally return by the CDC in November, which is when their acceptance of the protocols was given.  The cruise lines' first hope was to look at a January 2021 return timeframe.

 

Clearly the current covid situation and getting the logistics in place and - more importantly - the steps necessary with the CDC condition of needing to show compliance with the protocols is primarily what is taking the time - now targeted for May 1 - to commence passenger based cruising.  

 

The port of call restrictions were part of the original protocols proposed, so they are prepared and able to do so.  It just is an unfortunate condition of the initial itineraries planned.  As mentioned, this is a fluid situation and the hope is that this condition will be dropped, hopefully sooner than later in their return.

 

Aside from the current global covid situation still impacting most travel, the only reason the cruise lines have not already returned to US based cruising lies with the CDC, not themselves.

Edited January 21, 2021 by leaveitallbehind

[sydbarrett]

57 minutes ago, navybankerteacher said:

The notion of only cruise line tours for port calls is simply one of many concerns.  Taken with possible mask wearing , no buffets, and social-distancing (which logically must require higher fares) - you have an inter-related set of conditions which makes cruising at all fairly unlikely.

 

There is little point in just focusing on just one, as several deal-breakers are likely to co- exist until COVID is largely in the rear-view mirror— most likely after being brought under control by wide-spread (perhaps mandatory) vaccination.

I really hope the no self-serve buffet rule is permanent! 

[cruisemom42]

1 hour ago, leaveitallbehind said:

CLIA members will be adhering to the guidelines established through the work of RCI Group in partnership with NCL that was presented to and accepted by the CDC for the resumption of US based sailings.  This has been published on, for example, the RCI website and likely found similarly on the other members websites.  One of those protocols is the restriction of passenger disembarkation in ports of call to only those passengers booked on ship sponsored tours.  This is to help limit any exposure off the ship by controlling the on shore experience with those passengers in conjunction with tour operators following agreed upon mask and other social distancing guidelines established by both the island government and the cruise lines as accepted by the CDC for those sailings. 

 

Can you post a link to those RCI Group guidelines?

 

Because the Framework for Conditional Sailing published by the CDC on October 30 makes no mention of restriction of passenger disembarkation.

 

This is one reason why I (and others) feel it is more of a cruise line construct (and desire) than something that is mandated by CDC.

 

[leaveitallbehind]

48 minutes ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

Can you post a link to those RCI Group guidelines?

 

Because the Framework for Conditional Sailing published by the CDC on October 30 makes no mention of restriction of passenger disembarkation.

 

This is one reason why I (and others) feel it is more of a cruise line construct (and desire) than something that is mandated by CDC.

 

 

Here is the link:

 

https://www.royalcaribbeangroup.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/Healthy-Sail-Panel_Full-Recommendations_9.21.20_FINAL.pdf

 

Here is an excerpt from the RCI guidelines regarding shore excursions:

 

Guest Excursions

59 During the initial return to sailing, cruise operators should only allow guests debarking from a ship at a destination port to participate in cruise line-sponsored or verified excursions as a way of limiting potential exposures in the destinations they visit.  

 

60 Cruise operators should establish expectations of the vendors at the destinations they visit to ensure that they are taking recommended steps to reduce the transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

 

61 Cruise operators should incorporate verification of compliance with SARS-CoV-2 protocols into their routine ongoing monitoring guidelines for excursion vendors.  

 

62 Cruise operators should ensure that guests are thoroughly informed about potential exposure risks and how to minimize their risk of contracting SARS-CoV-2 at the planned destination.

 

63 Cruise operators should offer indoor excursions only if physical distancing, use of masks, and other recommended protective measures can be implemented. 

 

 

I have also been told directly from RCI and Celebrity that ship sponsored tours are the plans for the initial return to US based sailings.

 

I also agree with you and clearly see this as an opportunity for revenue enhancement as well.  The part that I missed was "or verified excursions...". That may open up other avenues as well?  But it doesn't look like wandering around in port or self planned excursion would be included.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by leaveitallbehind

[clo]

1 hour ago, leaveitallbehind said:

Actually the CLIA cruise lines have been ready to return to US based cruising since September, which is when the return to cruising protocols was completed, and cleared to conditionally return by the CDC in November, which is when their acceptance of the protocols was given.  The cruise lines' first hope was to look at a January 2021 return timeframe.

 

Clearly the current covid situation and getting the logistics in place and - more importantly - the steps necessary with the CDC condition of needing to show compliance with the protocols is primarily what is taking the time - now targeted for May 1 - to commence passenger based cruising.  

 

The port of call restrictions were part of the original protocols proposed, so they are prepared and able to do so.  It just is an unfortunate condition of the initial itineraries planned.  As mentioned, this is a fluid situation and the hope is that this condition will be dropped, hopefully sooner than later in their return.

 

Aside from the current global covid situation still impacting most travel, the only reason the cruise lines have not already returned to US based cruising lies with the CDC, not themselves.

But if cruise shore excursions are going to be required, are they already working with the local operators. Seems it would be hundreds or thousands and a separate contract with each one.

[leaveitallbehind]

11 minutes ago, clo said:

But if cruise shore excursions are going to be required, are they already working with the local operators. Seems it would be hundreds or thousands and a separate contract with each one.

They logically would start with existing tour providers under prior agreement and most of these operators have been in place for a long time.  And I would have to believe that the cruise lines have been in regular contact with them for a number of months.  Confirming their ability to comply with the guidelines would be the only likely task at hand, and many of them likely have already been working within their own government protocols to prepare to return to operations. IMO I don't think it is as big a task as you suspect.  As mentioned, the cruise lines currently are targeting May 1 to return and I would think all of this is already in place, or will be by then.

 

Keep in mind the initial US based return is only with a few ships (per cruise line) and limited Bahamas-type itineraries with private destinations as the focus.  Not many independent tour operators involved.  Its all going to roll out over 2021 from there.

Edited January 21, 2021 by leaveitallbehind

[Hlitner]

When the CDC published their Guidelines back in the Fall, I posted my own analysis (after reading through the entire document) that is seemed to be carefully crafted to do two things.  1.  Shift the pressure of restart decisions from the CDC to the cruise lines.  and 2.  To make the criteria so onerous as to make the restart of cruising very difficult to nearly impossible!

 

Why do I say this?  In order for a cruise line to restart on any single vessel (the Guidelines require vessel-specific approval) they would first have to expend a lot of money and effort to get a crew in place and likely make modifications to each vessel (such as installing HEPA Filters) aimed at enhancing the possibility of CDC approval.  Once having met the basic CDC requirements the line would then need to schedule a test cruise (which is free to the volunteer passengers).  It is only after that test cruise would a cruise line be able to seek a CDC certificate which would allow them to have cruises (no more then 7 days long) that involve a US Port.  But even a single COVID case would immediately get the certificate suspended for at least a few days (perhaps more).   

 

Bottom line is that given the burden of the Guidelines the cruise lines have kept delaying any attempt to get certification.  My hunch is that the start-ups will ultimately involve a 100% mandatory vaccination policy as the means of getting CDC approval and approval to dock at some ports.  Since it will be many months until enough potential cruisers have been vaccinated this might explain the continued roll back of potential start-up dates (now into May).   I should add that not only will cruise lines likely require passengers to have been vaccinated but they will also need to get their crews vaccinated.  Since crew members come from all over the world getting them all vaccinated will prove to be a difficult task until there is an adequate vaccine supply (this may take many months).

 

Hank

[Cru1s1ng2009]

18 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

Reading reports and seeing where getting off the ship will only be allowed if you have booked a cruise ship sponsored excursion.

What will that do abut the local taxi drivers and tour guides that offer similar excursions at lower prices? What about the shopping at the port? When you sit for a shopping talk on the ship. Will they tell you that you must pay the cruise line a fee to take you through the shopping centers at the port. Since doing a walking tour by yourself will no longer be allowed?
 

I would like to get off the ship and walk around Nassau, Cozumel and Costa Maya by myself. I'm in a wheelchair so i cannot book a cruise line excursion since i cannot ride my wheelchair onto those chartered buses. And I would not like being forced to not be allowed off the ship, unless it was a private island the cruise line owns.

Have you been around Nassau in a wheelchair? It is def not the US. Limited curb cuts, small sidewalks, pot holes everywhere. it is difficult to get anywhere. 

[ldubs]

19 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

Reading reports and seeing where getting off the ship will only be allowed if you have booked a cruise ship sponsored excursion.

What will that do abut the local taxi drivers and tour guides that offer similar excursions at lower prices? What about the shopping at the port? When you sit for a shopping talk on the ship. Will they tell you that you must pay the cruise line a fee to take you through the shopping centers at the port. Since doing a walking tour by yourself will no longer be allowed?
 

I would like to get off the ship and walk around Nassau, Cozumel and Costa Maya by myself. I'm in a wheelchair so i cannot book a cruise line excursion since i cannot ride my wheelchair onto those chartered buses. And I would not like being forced to not be allowed off the ship, unless it was a private island the cruise line owns.

 

Some of your concerns about limited options are really similar to those we have here at home with our local businesses.  One thought regarding the port tour guides/taxi's, if only sponsored excursions are happening, there will be more need for those to fill the increased demand for ship excursions.   And I think you have it right that it will be more costly under this sponsored tour rule.   If this in fact happens, I hope they will give some thought to accommodating wheelchairs.  

 

These kinds of controls are being discussed as ways to attempt to reopen while the pandemic is still happening.   Kind of stating the obvious, but the real solution is managing this pandemic.  

 

 

[Hangman115]

25 minutes ago, Cru1s1ng2009 said:

Have you been around Nassau in a wheelchair? It is def not the US. Limited curb cuts, small sidewalks, pot holes everywhere. it is difficult to get anywhere. 

I have only been in a wheelchair the past couple years. But have been to Nassau many times while I was still able to walk. 

I understand some hardships. Like in Florida where I live, there are many places i cannot go while in a wheelchair.  But the rules i have been seeing is unless I book a shore excurssion with the cruise line. That I will not be allowed off the ship. And I am willing to travel the block or two around the port. Do some local shopping. But  I wonder if that is allowed anymore like I read. That even getting off the ship to do some local shopping may not be allowed if I was to self explore a few stores. I would also like to get my hair braided again in Nassau.  That stand has a ramp for wheelchairs and walkers.  But it would be a self explore and not a cruise line excursion to get my hair and my beard braided. Also on the ship they have shopping guide talks about stores in port. So what if you are not allowed off the ship. Will yo have to pay extra to the cruise line to get a so called walking guided tour to the local port shopping vendors?

 

[SelectSys]

10 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

Will yo have to pay extra to the cruise line to get a so called walking guided tour to the local port shopping vendors?

 

Probably.  You also won't have freedom to go into any store and be likely restricted to the stores of the tour.

 

10 hours ago, Hangman115 said:

 I am willing to travel the block or two around the port.

 

Just curious if you have considered renting a mobility scooter for your cruises?  It might make it easier to see more things / go further.

[SelectSys]

11 hours ago, ldubs said:

These kinds of controls are being discussed as ways to attempt to reopen while the pandemic is still happening.   Kind of stating the obvious, but the real solution is managing this pandemic

 

It's just not clear what works in terms of management without real draconian measures once community spread takes hold. Not a perfect study, but the article below at least discusses some of the issues.  It could be that cultural norms are more important than lockdowns.

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656

"We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of coordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures," the research said.

However, the researchers also acknowledged that the study had limitations, and noted that "cross-country comparisons are difficult," since nations may have different rules, cultures, and relationships between their government and citizenry.

The study was conducted by researchers affiliated with Stanford University, and was co-authored by Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine and economics who has been a vocal opponent of coronavirus lockdowns since March.

Bhattacharya was also among a group of scientists who wrote The Great Barrington Declaration, a controversial statement that encouraged governments to lift lockdown restrictions to achieve herd immunity among young and healthy people, while focusing protections on the elderly.

[ldubs]

11 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

It's just not clear what works in terms of management without real draconian measures once community spread takes hold. Not a perfect study, but the article below at least discusses some of the issues.  It could be that cultural norms are more important than lockdowns.

 

 

https://www.newsweek.com/covid-lockdowns-have-no-clear-benefit-vs-other-voluntary-measures-international-study-shows-1561656

"We do not question the role of all public health interventions, or of coordinated communications about the epidemic, but we fail to find an additional benefit of stay-at-home orders and business closures," the research said.

However, the researchers also acknowledged that the study had limitations, and noted that "cross-country comparisons are difficult," since nations may have different rules, cultures, and relationships between their government and citizenry.

The study was conducted by researchers affiliated with Stanford University, and was co-authored by Jay Bhattacharya, a professor of medicine and economics who has been a vocal opponent of coronavirus lockdowns since March.

Bhattacharya was also among a group of scientists who wrote The Great Barrington Declaration, a controversial statement that encouraged governments to lift lockdown restrictions to achieve herd immunity among young and healthy people, while focusing protections on the elderly.

 

" It could be that cultural norms are more important than lockdowns."

 

Thought provoking and thanks for the link.   

 

When I said "managing the pandemic"  I was thinking in terms of putting it behind us.  Probably a poor choice of wording on my part.   Since there is a lot of talk of there never being a true "cure" maybe "controlled" is a better term.     

[SelectSys]

43 minutes ago, ldubs said:

" It could be that cultural norms are more important than lockdowns."

 

Thought provoking and thanks for the link.

 

My own gut is that this is why it has been so difficult to control the pandemic in the US.   Since the 60's, the Baby Boom generation has largely promoted narcissism as its leading cultural norm and were able to "teach the children well!"

 

I liked this story:

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2017/06/28/a-rise-in-narcissism-a-root-of-americas-crisis/

 

Authors Twenge and Campbell trace the earliest roots in narcissism back to the 1950s. The Baby Boomers were the first generation to grow up in a post-war era of greater consumer plenitude and less existential hardship. As the Baby Boomers came of age in the 1960s and 70s, the grey society of the post-war consensus had begun to vanish in favor of a more individualistic focus on self-expression and self-identity.

 

The problem is that this change in the narrative furthered henceforth. It became pronounced enough by the 1970s that Tom Wolfe in 1976 titled this “The ‘Me’ Decade”. The cohorts that were raised in the 70s and 80s—Generations X and Y—continued this trend: to the extent that one study comparing teenagers found that while only 12% of those aged 14-16 in the early 1950s agreed with the statement “I am an important person”, 77% of boys and more than 80% of girls of the same cohort by 1989 agreed with it. This evolution has accelerated since the 1990s and 2000s, with the rise of the internet and social media influencing the social milieu of the Millennials and Generation Z.

 

[ldubs]

9 minutes ago, SelectSys said:

 

My own gut is that this is why it has been so difficult to control the pandemic in the US.   Since the 60's, the Baby Boom generation has largely promoted narcissism as its leading cultural norm and were able to "teach the children well!"

 

I liked this story:

 

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/usappblog/2017/06/28/a-rise-in-narcissism-a-root-of-americas-crisis/

 

Authors Twenge and Campbell trace the earliest roots in narcissism back to the 1950s. The Baby Boomers were the first generation to grow up in a post-war era of greater consumer plenitude and less existential hardship. As the Baby Boomers came of age in the 1960s and 70s, the grey society of the post-war consensus had begun to vanish in favor of a more individualistic focus on self-expression and self-identity.

 

The problem is that this change in the narrative furthered henceforth. It became pronounced enough by the 1970s that Tom Wolfe in 1976 titled this “The ‘Me’ Decade”. The cohorts that were raised in the 70s and 80s—Generations X and Y—continued this trend: to the extent that one study comparing teenagers found that while only 12% of those aged 14-16 in the early 1950s agreed with the statement “I am an important person”, 77% of boys and more than 80% of girls of the same cohort by 1989 agreed with it. This evolution has accelerated since the 1990s and 2000s, with the rise of the internet and social media influencing the social milieu of the Millennials and Generation Z.

 

 

Huh, again very interesting.  So what are we teaching our children these days I wonder.  I have an opinion and it isn't very positive or optimistic.  

[SelectSys]

18 minutes ago, ldubs said:

So what are we teaching our children these days I wonder

 

Who knows?  I'll bet a lot of today's studies goes beyond the classic reading, writing and arithmetic.  History is likely low on the list as well except in the context of critical theory discussion.