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Will Carnival follow suit?


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9 hours ago, Nachosdelux said:

there is no question in my mind that all cruise lines will mandate vaccination for all passengers - no exceptions.  No shot = no cruise.

 

 

 

Just wondering if there will be enough passengers that get the vaccine, to fill the ships. Not everyone wants the shots. We are one of them. If mandated, that will be a BIG problem. Just reading these boards, there seems to be mixed feelings about being vaccinated. They better think long and hard about it being mandatory!!

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Will the cruise lines also say that the vaccines must have been administered no less than a certain amount of time before your cruise?  At this point, no one knows for sure how long the vaccine lasts in your system.  Will it be like the flu shots where you have to get one every year?  Will the current vaccine cover all of the different strains of Covid that are popping up?  Lots of unanswered questions.

 

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I'll put my thoughts here briefly, mostly to record them for perpetuity and laugh about them later:

 

  1. I don't think Carnival Cruise Line will mandate vaccines unless their hand is forced
  2. It's more likely that Carnival Corp. lines like Seabourn, Princess, and Holland will do so
  3. If a vaccine mandate comes down from whatever source, that would delay cruising by some months - more than I'm sure anyone would want
  4. If crew is required to get vaccinated, that would delay cruising by many months
  5. Kids could be exempted from vaccination in order to get started sooner
  6. They could also be BANNED, which I'm sure CCL doesn't want
  7. I think chartered cruises could have their own requirements, which I expect to see in the next few months
  8. If vaccines are required, I think CCL will offer refunds to those that can't or don't want to meet this new requirement
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10 hours ago, cruisingguy007 said:

 

Key word is "really hoping". Studies are already underway in other countries and the US is conducting a study of it's own for 14+. One or more of the current vaccines may very well be safe/effective. I'm hoping there is a better coordinated plan to expedite vaccines with the new administration as manufactures have stated that it's not a manufacturing problem but a distribution problem (they just need addresses). I also think there will be plenty of vaccines for kids with all the people who want to opt out and take their chances. There are plenty who won't take the vaccine, even in the medical field. Should be more than enough for those who want it by summer. 

There is a big discrepancy in the amount of doses available. Ohio has just now been able to vaccinate residents of Indepdent Living Facilities (92 y/o FIL is there), while a classmate of mine in Florida received his this week.

 

if the distribution problems are the reason, shouldn't that have been figured  out long before production?

 

i get this is an unprecedented situation/dilemma but that's what the "experts" are for. Be proactive and let's get it fixed.

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Like @Honolulu Blue, I'll post my current thoughts on the matter:

 

Cruise lines, including Carnival, might have no part in deciding whether vaccines are mandatory for cruising - it might be decided by the ports they visit.  If most ports require proof of vaccination, that requirement will simply be flowed down to all cruises.  And whether that included kids or not will also be beyond Carnival's control.

 

Once the vaccine is distributed to "enough" of the population, I agree, a relaxation of social distancing requirements is both a good idea and likely to happen.  Those that haven't been vaccinated will be advised to be cautious and that they can be denied service by any private company that requires proof of vaccination.  More than likely that would be for major travel-oriented industries, not so much your local nail salon.

 

I think that there will be enough people willing to be vaccinated that cruise lines will have no problem filling up with enough passengers to make it worthwhile.

 

How that proof of vaccination is established will be tricky.  Might need to correlate to a Government database like passports or driver's licenses.  Because as @linbobky points out, if just a piece of paper I can make one of those in minutes, I won't even need to buy it off the web.

 

Eventually (I hope), the requirement for a vaccine may be deleted because the disease itself has died out, like the Spanish Flu did so many years ago.  But that is difficult to predict at this time, IMHO.

 

As for 100 day mask mandate on domestic modes of transportation:

 

"public maritime vessels, including ferries"

 

Cruise ships aren't considered domestic modes of transportation (AFAIK), but as also pointed out, I suspect we won't be cruising in 100 day anyway.

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10 hours ago, tidecat said:

One or more may be approved for children under 16 by then, even if the supply isn't immediately available.

Have they even begun vaccine trials for children yet? I do not believe I have heard or read any of the approved or waiting to be approved vaccines have had these clinical trials.

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Cruise lines are desperate for revenue and business. I’m sure whenever cruising does start. Whatever protocols and mandates that are in place will look very different 365 days later.

Smart do will use this to do  a reset on thier business models and strategy.

with vaccines in peoples arms  .. finally a true glimmer of hope is starting to appear 

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17 hours ago, sarmat1 said:

 

Agreed.  Carnival's bread and butter demographic is families.  Individuals under 16 are currently ineligible to be vaccinated, so a vaccine mandate by Carnival will have them intentionally alienating their main clientele.  Not offering up any opinion as to whether mandating is good or bad (I'm on the vaccine list waiting for one), just stating that it is unlikely to be a Carnival mandate.

I would think if vaccines are required, but aren't yet approved or widely available for under 16, that they would exempt kids under 16 as to not lose a big chunk of scheduled already and potential cruisers.  We have a very end of August cruise scheduled (on a hope and prayer!) with our kids.  One will be 17 then and if allowed to be vaccinated yet per my state's priority metrics, he will be vaccinated. I'm scheduled for my first one in a couple weeks.  My husband will be tricky to get vaccinated when he's eligible but only because he hates needles.  LOL

 

If there is no exception and is required, I do have no doubts they'd allowed people with booked cruises with children to reschedule without penalty.  It would be horrible PR and customer retention to say something like "either leave the kids home or forfeit your entire fare".  Probably eligible for a credit card chargeback too as a vaccine requirement was not there when booked.

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I am hoping and counting on vaccine being mandatory on all cruise lines in which  case passengers will have no choice if they want to cruise.  I think there is no way that children will be exempt, but they are expecting to have a vaccine for children later this year.  I am one that will not cruise with a bunch if unvaccinated people.  I don’t think any cruise line will jeopardize themselves like that.

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On 1/22/2021 at 4:58 AM, linbobky said:

If they do require the shots the internet will be full of sites that will give you a card that says you have been vaccinated. Just pay a fee for it.

 

If this becomes a problem, they'll just switch to doing a rapid antibody test.

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My opinion is that there will be no "test" cruises. I think that was on the table in order to start sailing in early 2021. Since sailing won't happen until deep into 2H2021, I think test cruises are gone. Since cruise lines are private businesses, they can mandate their own rules on vaccine requirements. I see fully vaccinated cruises as the only means of being able to cruise in 2021 from the US. The CDC should get off their rears, make the mandate, and let the cruise lines get back to planning. If they made this mandate in the US, 70% of the US population would be able to cruise by July. It would end all speculation and things would get back to the new normal.

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9 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

I am hoping and counting on vaccine being mandatory on all cruise lines in which  case passengers will have no choice if they want to cruise.  I think there is no way that children will be exempt, but they are expecting to have a vaccine for children later this year.  I am one that will not cruise with a bunch if unvaccinated people.  I don’t think any cruise line will jeopardize themselves like that.

Do you have a citation that there will be a vaccine for children later this year? Have they even done any clinical trials with children yet?

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3 hours ago, ontheweb said:
13 hours ago, Ellaleah said:

 

Do you have a citation that there will be a vaccine for children later this year? Have they even done any clinical trials with children yet?

I have no citation, but I do read and watch the news.  It is a prediction and it sounds probable to me.  
Clinical trials underway to test COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness for children. MANKATO, Minn. (KEYC) - COVID-19 vaccines are underway all around the world. Now, according to Mayo Clinic, both Pfizer and Moderna have clinical trials underway to study the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines in children.  this is dated 1/10/21.

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1 minute ago, Ellaleah said:

I have no citation, but I do read and watch the news.  It is a prediction and it sounds probable to me.  
Clinical trials underway to test COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness for children. MANKATO, Minn. (KEYC) - COVID-19 vaccines are underway all around the world. Now, according to Mayo Clinic, both Pfizer and Moderna have clinical trials underway to study the safety and effectiveness of the vaccines in children.  this is dated 1/10/21.

OK, I was not aware of this. It seems to be good news.

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On 1/21/2021 at 4:26 PM, sarmat1 said:

 

Agreed.  Carnival's bread and butter demographic is families.  Individuals under 16 are currently ineligible to be vaccinated, so a vaccine mandate by Carnival will have them intentionally alienating their main clientele.  Not offering up any opinion as to whether mandating is good or bad (I'm on the vaccine list waiting for one), just stating that it is unlikely to be a Carnival mandate.

They could require that all who are eligible get the vaccine. 

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I am one of those who feel vaccines should be mandatory. Not interested in being quarentined to my cabin or the cruise returned to port because someone not vaccinated tests positive onboard. Of course vaccines aren't 100%, but better than 0%.

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I suspect this will be dictated either by the CDC or the ports to be visited.   I remember MANY years ago I had to have cholera shots to go to Italy.   They had to be no more than 6 months old.   I remember the airline checking our vaccination books and checking the dates before we were permitted to board the plane here in Canada to fly over.   Then I believe it was Customs that checked when we returned home.  

 

This was just due to a cholera outbreak in a small area of Italy, so I suspect with this being a major pandemic, countries will do what they feel they have to do to protect their citizens (and many of those countries do not have the medical capabilities that the US and Canada does).   

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On 1/21/2021 at 6:21 PM, Aplmac said:

Testing is great, but vaccines are even better.

Both combined?  -better yet!

 

Cruise lines should soon start requiring both.

That sounds great right? Except... the CDC rules don't care if you have had your vaccine. Unless things change, in 2021 even if you have your vaccine, you need to get a test before you re-enter the USA.  And they still recommend a 7-14 day quarantine, even if you test negative AND had a vaccine! 

 

I won't be making any plans until I find out for sure, but with these requirements, I can't see the cruise lines sailing unless it is changed. The situation could easily be this: Fly to Florida for a 7 day cruise, get a negative test 3 days before the cruise ends. Get off the ship, check into your designated quarantined hotel that you have to pay for the next 7 - 14 days because no airline is going to let you board with a test from a cruise ship. 

 

Unless the CDC says you have the vaccine you are good! Any international travel is going to be a PITA. Sure some of us will still do it, me included! But you better bet, that if the direct flights from my city to Cancun skyrocket to $1000pp vs the $300pp they are now, I am paying for that direct flight so I can be at home for that mandatory period vs in a hotel paying even more not being able to work! 

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No need for children to be vaccinated -  COVID-19 Deaths by Age | The Heritage Foundation

Children aren't secret-agent spreaders.  This German study followed COVID+ children German study finds no evidence coronavirus spreads in schools (telegraph.co.uk)

If cruise lines were really worried about transmission, they'd ban people whose BMIs were over 40.  They are the ones most likely to get and spread COVID.  But that's not politically correct.

 

The bottom line is, if you want the vaccine, get it!  Do a little study on the differences between the Moderna & Pfizer vaxes vs. the AstraZeneca or Oxford vaxes before you do.

 

We've already had three cruises canceled because the CDC doesn't trust people to act like adults.  We'll be canceling the other four we have planned should a largely untested vaccine be required.  Unless, of course, they agree to accept financial responsibility for any problems arising from their decision.

 

Frankly, I don't think NCL is long for the cruise world, and this will be their death-knell.  Or maybe not.  Maybe NCL becomes the line for mandatorily vaccinated people while the others leave it to people to make their own medical decisions.  RCCL and Carnival will be more wary; given that Carnival is more conservative than RCCL, I'd expect if a line was going to do this, they'd be the last one.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a choice -- "This cruise requires proof of these vaccinations before boarding," and "This cruise is open to all passengers not displaying evidence of illness."  Then those highly concerned can all cruise together, and those of us who protect ourselves in proven ways other than new technology can also cruise together.  It would also give cruise lines the opportunity to see where their market is, if the cruises were similar.  People would vote with their $$.

Edited by Incognito1
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20 minutes ago, Incognito1 said:

No need for children to be vaccinated -  COVID-19 Deaths by Age | The Heritage Foundation

Children aren't secret-agent spreaders.  This German study followed COVID+ children German study finds no evidence coronavirus spreads in schools (telegraph.co.uk)

If cruise lines were really worried about transmission, they'd ban people whose BMIs were over 40.  They are the ones most likely to get and spread COVID.  But that's not politically correct.

 

The bottom line is, if you want the vaccine, get it!  Do a little study on the differences between the Moderna & Pfizer vaxes vs. the AstraZeneca or Oxford vaxes before you do.

 

We've already had three cruises canceled because the CDC doesn't trust people to act like adults.  We'll be canceling the other four we have planned should a largely untested vaccine be required.  Unless, of course, they agree to accept financial responsibility for any problems arising from their decision.

 

Frankly, I don't think NCL is long for the cruise world, and this will be their death-knell.  Or maybe not.  Maybe NCL becomes the line for mandatorily vaccinated people while the others leave it to people to make their own medical decisions.  RCCL and Carnival will be more wary; given that Carnival is more conservative than RCCL, I'd expect if a line was going to do this, they'd be the last one.

 

I wouldn't mind seeing a choice -- "This cruise requires proof of these vaccinations before boarding," and "This cruise is open to all passengers not displaying evidence of illness."  Then those highly concerned can all cruise together, and those of us who protect ourselves in proven ways other than new technology can also cruise together.  It would also give cruise lines the opportunity to see where their market is, if the cruises were similar.  People would vote with their $$.

I say “no way” any cruise line will allow non vaccinated people and especially children on a ship.  It would be inviting massive lawsuits and bad publicity!   It will not be a point of dispute if they all do it together.

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We'll see.  The New York Post reports that nearly half of Americans are NOT planning to get the vaccine, including more than a third of health care workers.  So, the question becomes how many of that half is in the cruising market.

 

Again, I think a choice is better.  And it shows the cruise lines where their market lies.  Two cruises to the Caribbean the same week or a week apart, same price, one with a choice to be vaccinated, the other without a choice.  Maybe the mandatory one will be completely full and the other empty.  Judging from the people I know in real life, I doubt.  It would be a nice comparison, though, right?  

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