Pacific Princess Sold!

[Ride-The-Waves]

5 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I would not be so fast to recommend Azamara since their new owner has zero experience running a cruise line...and in fact has zero experience owning ships.  We are talking about an owner with a history of buying companies at bargain basement prices and later reselling at a nice profit.  The basic strategy of such private equity firms is to increase the profitability of their investments.  Whether that translates into maintaining or even improving quality remains to be seen.

 

From a financial perspective the cruise industry is in a lot of trouble.  CCL, RCI and NCL Holdings are bleeding cash at a tremendous rate (measured in hundreds of millions per month) with shrinking balance sheets and increased debt obligations.  The performance and survivability of these companies depends on their ability to resume operations....and the ability to do that is still a big question.  I think the only major cruise line in a pretty solid situation is MSC which is privately owned (primarily by a single family) who also owns/operates a huge worldwide ocean shipping company which is still bringing in lots of revenue.  

 

A question I have about Azamara is who will eventually buy the company or will it eventually become a small niche cruise line (which has its own problems because of the lack of economies of scale).  One also needs to consider that the "R" ships are 20+ years old which means they must deal with the typical maintenance issues related to older vessels.  While I do personally like the "R" ships their relatively average cabin sizes and small cabin bathrooms limit their ability to compete in the luxury market....and their small vessel size makes it tough to compete in the mass market cruise line industry.  

 

Hank

Different target audience than the mega-ships.  Azamara's itineraries are small port focused where the large ships cannot moor.  They also offer a more personalized experience, such as stopping to buy fresh seafood and in one case I know of taking passengers out to catch seafood.  While the cabins are smaller hah some (we have only sailed in Azamara's Club Continent suites) the itineraries are usually not designed around long periods at sea (we have sailed on Journey between Mumbai and Piraeus with stops on the Arabian peninsula, Red Sea, Gulf of Aqaba and Suez transit).  More like a hotel that changes its location every might...  You can't get that on Oasis...

Edited January 24, 2021 by Ride-The-Waves

[Hlitner]

37 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Different target audience than the mega-ships.  Azamara's itineraries are small port focused where the large ships cannot moor.  They also offer a more personalized experience, such as stopping to buy fresh seafood and in one case I know of taking passengers out to catch seafood.  While the cabins are smaller hah some (we have only sailed in Azamara's Club Continent suites) the itineraries are usually not designed around long periods at sea (we have sailed on Journey between Mumbai and Piraeus with stops on the Arabian peninsula, Red Sea, Gulf of Aqaba and Suez transit).  More like a hotel that changes its location every might...  You can't get that on Oasis...

I agree that the "R" ships do not deal with the same audience is most mega ships.  But my point is more about the fact that we are talking new ownership with a company that likely has little interest other then improving the value of its investment (this is the normal goal of equity firms).   I have no clue what that will mean in terms of the quality of the Azamara product or if that product will even continue to exist for any length of time (the equity firm could decide to dissolve the cruise line and sell the assets (ships)).   We shall all have to wait and see.

 

Hank

[nocl]

4 hours ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

Oceania has two 1,200 passenger ships on order.  That said, most of the contracts let before the pandemic are for behemoths of 5,000-6,000 passenger capacity.  My perspective is these ships have limited utility except of competing against each other in the Caribbean.  Really not interested in paying to ride on these huge floating islands and expect they will have restricted access at many ports.  They are designed primarily for onboard entertainment and not for visiting ports.

For comparison their last ships Marina and Riviera cost around 960k per state room.  This is more than twice the per cabin costs compared to a large ship (Sky Princess for example costs 414k per cabin).  This is one of the reasons few small ships are being built

 

With the purchase of Azamara the total of 1050 cabins for 200 million the cost per state room is pretty cheap costing them 190k per state room (not counting the value of the brand and other elements of the cruise line).

 

 

 

 

Edited January 25, 2021 by nocl

[Lucky TGO]

Farewell my lady may the waters and wind be calm around you. 

Tony

[mcrcruiser]

1 hour ago, Lucky TGO said:

Farewell my lady may the waters and wind be calm around you. 

Tony

she was a really nice ship 

 

[mcrcruiser]

Where ever she winds up she will still have that special feeling  for her pax

[Ride-The-Waves]

7 hours ago, mcrcruiser said:

Where ever she winds up she will still have that special feeling  for her pax

Exactly what is great about ships this size.  Their intimacy and familiarity, along with itineraries the monsters cannot go, will keep them around for a long time.  Additionally their size should help them weather the pandemic better than the monsters (over 4,000 pax),

[Coral]

14 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I agree that the "R" ships do not deal with the same audience is most mega ships.  But my point is more about the fact that we are talking new ownership with a company that likely has little interest other then improving the value of its investment (this is the normal goal of equity firms).   I have no clue what that will mean in terms of the quality of the Azamara product or if that product will even continue to exist for any length of time (the equity firm could decide to dissolve the cruise line and sell the assets (ships)).   We shall all have to wait and see.

 

Hank

If you look at the Azamara board - people are cancelling like crazy as they fear the new owners.

 

Time will tell!

[Riocca]

Just announced that Sycamore Partners have purchased Pacific Princess for Azamara, after refurbishment will start sailing in Europe in 2022.

 

https://www.azamara.com/int/news-update?ecid=em_23245549&rid=178059940&emsc=GBR_PG_PLUS_MM_YESBKFUTURE&emct=E&lnkid=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.azamara.com%2Fnews-update

[Smiley27]

45 minutes ago, Coral said:

If you look at the Azamara board - people are cancelling like crazy as they fear the new owners.

 

Time will tell!

How do you know that people are cancelling ?

I do hope that Azamara is still a Good choice, as we have a Japan itinerary /spring 22 planned ( was April this year )

we have done two Azamara cruises, which we truely enjoyed.

if new owners do not perform, of course they will loose business...

I guess they bought the fleet with hopes of a Good business, and that means having people buy their cruises, so it should be in their Best interest to have happy and content cruisers on board!

love the size.....and itineraries.....port intensive ....

[Coral]

Just now, Smiley27 said:

How do you know that people are cancelling ?

I do hope that Azamara is still a Good choice, as we have a Japan itinerary /spring 22 planned ( was April this year )

we have done two Azamara cruises, which we truely enjoyed.

if new owners do not perform, of course they will loose business...

I guess they bought the fleet with hopes of a Good business, and that means having people buy their cruises, so it should be in their Best interest to have happy and content cruisers on board!

love the size.....and itineraries.....port intensive ....

Look on the Azamara CC board and other cruise boards. They have little confidence in new leadership based on the other brands they own.

[macmax]

That's good news as Pacific Princess will be joining 3 of her sisters in a company that truly appreciates their uniqueness.  It also shows that Azamara's new owners are willing to spend some money.

[cruisemom42]

19 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

 

I have my doubts as to whether the purchaser is the same as for the Azamara ships. Why wouldn't they announce it in the same way rather than "buyer to be named later"?  Companies generally tend to do things in the same way, using the same wording, templates, etc. to announce these things.

 

 

Well, so much for my doubts. Got the email from Azamara this morning that (pending the sale) the Pacific Princess will be joining their fleet.

 

[macmax]

"Cancelling like crazy" -hardly....there were a couple of posts saying that they cancelled but most loyal fans have a wait & see attitude.

Edited January 25, 2021 by macmax

[Coral]

22 minutes ago, macmax said:

"Cancelling like crazy" -hardly....there were a couple of posts saying that they cancelled but most loyal fans have a wait & see attitude.

I was looking at another board also here and there are massive cancellations. These are from people who loved Azamara. 

 

I hope the new company does well with their ships. It just seems like a mis-match.

Edited January 25, 2021 by Coral

[Ride-The-Waves]

16 hours ago, Hlitner said:

I agree that the "R" ships do not deal with the same audience is most mega ships.  But my point is more about the fact that we are talking new ownership with a company that likely has little interest other then improving the value of its investment (this is the normal goal of equity firms).   I have no clue what that will mean in terms of the quality of the Azamara product or if that product will even continue to exist for any length of time (the equity firm could decide to dissolve the cruise line and sell the assets (ships)).   We shall all have to wait and see.

 

Hank

They just invested another ship into the Azamara fleet with the addition of Pacific Princess.  Not the action of a company looking to divest components for profit.

[Hlitner]

59 minutes ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

They just invested another ship into the Azamara fleet with the addition of Pacific Princess.  Not the action of a company looking to divest components for profit.

Of course it is.   They will try to build up the balance sheet and be for sale to anyone willing to make a decent offer.  That being said, it is hard to imagine any of the major cruise lines looking to expand with these 20+ year old vessels.  I would have hoped that HAL would have taken over the Pacific Princess and used it as their "pathfinder" replacement for the Prinsendam.  The fact that CCL decided to unload the Pacific Princess is a good indication that they have no intention of adding a smaller vessel to the HAL fleet.

 

Sycamore is actually making an interesting move when you look at the history of the "R" ships.  There were originally 8 of those R ships built for Renaissance.  The thinking of the Swiss Bankers behind the original financing was that the 8 vessels would be identical (right down to the rivets) which would make operations more efficient.  So, for example, an engineer of who worked on one R ship could easily move to any other ship (with no extra training) and it would be the same for everyone in the Marine department.  We actually met the CEO of the London, England marine architect firm that designed the R ships (he originally sketched it out on a napkin while having lunch with the bankers) and he told us the tale.   Now, Sycamore has put 3 of these vessels back under a single brand which does add to efficiency.   I wonder if they will try to buy more of the existing "R" ships to further grow the companies assets.  

 

I do think it is a big risk for Sycamore given that the future of cruising is, at best, fragile.   It is interesting that both CCL and RCI have been divesting of older (less profitable) ships and you should assume that the management of those large companies has a good understanding of the cruise market.  .  Another thought is that Azamara might try to fill the void left in the British market with the downfall of some English oriented lines such as CMV.  It is fun (and a hobby) to watch the cruise industry try to navigate their way through the COVID mess and find a way to enough future profitability to allow them to pay down their huge debt and keep up the quality of their products.

 

Hank

 

 

[AlanF65]

1 hour ago, Hlitner said:

 It is interesting that both CCL and RCI have been divesting of older

I wonder if CCL is getting rid of them because they don't want to update them per the environmental issues that have to be solved before sailing.

[stevenr597]

Ships like the Pacific Princess really are no longer a good fit for Princess which has been trending towards every larger ships with more amenities.  However, I think it is a wise decisions by the new owners of Azamara, in that they already have three similar ships. 

We sailed once on Azamara to East Asia.  We had booked a suite, but found it quite noisy in that their suites are just below the pool deck.  However, Azamara corrected this situation by giving us one of the "Owner's Suites" which was on the back of the ship.

Would we travel on Azamara again...possibly...although we have been satisfied with Princess. 

[Syracusefan44]

.@Azamara to add fourth sister ship to debut in Europe in 2022, new owners Sycamore Partners announce. The newcomer, the former Pacific Princess, will be completely renovated before joining the fleet. Its new name will be announced at a later date.

https://twitter.com/matthewcruises/status/1353772660413657088?s=21

Edited January 25, 2021 by Syracusefan44

[nocl]

4 hours ago, Smiley27 said:

How do you know that people are cancelling ?

I do hope that Azamara is still a Good choice, as we have a Japan itinerary /spring 22 planned ( was April this year )

we have done two Azamara cruises, which we truely enjoyed.

if new owners do not perform, of course they will loose business...

I guess they bought the fleet with hopes of a Good business, and that means having people buy their cruises, so it should be in their Best interest to have happy and content cruisers on board!

love the size.....and itineraries.....port intensive ....

You can expect the new owners to follow the path that Apollo did with NCLH.  

 

Azamara was pretty much forgotten about as part of RCL.  No new ships, no real influx of funds.  It was just kind of  languishing.

 

With the new owners you can expect an influx of new investment.  After all their goal will be to build the company and brand and then to take it public in an IPO (just as Apollo did with NCLH).  They are looking for multiples of their investment, not merely a percentage on the investment.  So I do not expect them to cut, I expect them to expand, taking advantage of the shutdown in the industry and the difficulties of existing cruise lines.

 

The real question is exactly where and how they position the brand.  Are they going to make it a small ship line at a non-inclusive price point that would compete with the EU small ship lines (lower than Oceania, but higher than the main stream lines like HAL, Celebrity and Princess, a niche for which there is a need.  Or are they going to position it more in direct competition with the more inclusive/premium lines at a correspondingly higher price point.

 

I expect that there will be changes compared to what Azamara has done in the past, but I expect those to be in line with where ever the new owners want to position the line, not because of cuts to the existing Azamara model to save money.

[nocl]

1 hour ago, AlanF65 said:

I wonder if CCL is getting rid of them because they don't want to update them per the environmental issues that have to be solved before sailing.

CCL and all of its brands has a track record of getting rid of ships when they reach the age where additional inspections and dry docks are required.

[avw]

14 hours ago, Coral said:

If you look at the Azamara board - people are cancelling like crazy as they fear the new owners.

 

Time will tell!

Not true. Initially, there was some knee jerk panic and some people reported cancelling, but that quickly settled down. If you read Azamara's posts now, Azamara's loyal customers are very excited about the future.  

[Coral]

8 hours ago, avw said:

Not true. Initially, there was some knee jerk panic and some people reported cancelling, but that quickly settled down. If you read Azamara's posts now, Azamara's loyal customers are very excited about the future.  

I read several boards that indicated such. I guess it depends on where you read.

[blackie50]

As the Pacific Princess leaves Princess cruise lines, so do I.  After sailing on her a few times I have been spoiled and will no longer sail the larger ships.  Now looking to Oceania, Crystal, and other lines with smaller ships.  Of all the ships that I have sailed, she was my favorite for so many reasons.