Key West Cruise Ship Ban May Be In Jeopardy.

[CT Sean]

13 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Not in my world!  That sounds like something they would do in North Korea (where the State owns all the piers) or perhaps Venezuela.  

 

While I agree with your perspective - the locals should get a say, don't forget that FL state gov't prevents local gov't from enforcing mask rules, so it's not exactly without precedent. 

 

"Pre-emption" is actually bit of a problem in FL it appears, base don this article: https://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/floridas-local-governments-are-sick-and-tired-of-state-lawmakers-pre-empting-home-rule-and-theyre-starting-to-push-back/Content?oid=26756020

[Hlitner]

7 minutes ago, CT Sean said:

 

While I agree with your perspective - the locals should get a say, don't forget that FL state gov't prevents local gov't from enforcing mask rules, so it's not exactly without precedent. 

 

"Pre-emption" is actually bit of a problem in FL it appears, base don this article: https://www.orlandoweekly.com/orlando/floridas-local-governments-are-sick-and-tired-of-state-lawmakers-pre-empting-home-rule-and-theyre-starting-to-push-back/Content?oid=26756020

Just to keep it full disclosure, FL prohibits collection of fines for failure to follow local mask rules.  That being said you would have to look far and wide in our country to find folks who have actually paid fines for not wearing a mask.  And while we were in KY (early Dec) they did have a mask requirement (even outdoors) that was followed by more then 50%.

 

Those who live in States where Governor's are enjoying dictatorial powers might enjoy visiting FL where just about everything is open (and has been open) with the usual capacity restrictions.  They are doing much better then NY (where lock downs were strict) and about the same as the Newsom Republic of CA.

 

Hank

[CT Sean]

8 hours ago, Hlitner said:

Just to keep it full disclosure, FL prohibits collection of fines for failure to follow local mask rules.  That being said you would have to look far and wide in our country to find folks who have actually paid fines for not wearing a mask.  And while we were in KY (early Dec) they did have a mask requirement (even outdoors) that was followed by more then 50%.

 

Those who live in States where Governor's are enjoying dictatorial powers might enjoy visiting FL where just about everything is open (and has been open) with the usual capacity restrictions.  They are doing much better then NY (where lock downs were strict) and about the same as the Newsom Republic of CA.

 

Hank

 

None of that is relevant.  The claim that FL state honors local FL regulations and is not doing  "something they would do in North Korea" is false as evidenced by the article.

[Cienfuegos]

The Republican legislature appears to be well on the way to over turning the Key West referendum.  The bill now includes just Key West and three other, smaller ports.  Major ports like Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville etc had argued against an earlier version which would have limited local control over their  port operations.

 

Governor Ron DeSantis has not signaled whether he will sign the bill.  The legislature is about half way through its annual session.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/rough-waters-in-key-west-as-city-cruise-industry-and-state-lawmakers-tangle-over-its-future/2021/03/26/6fedba3e-8ca3-11eb-a6bd-0eb91c03305a_story.html

[Cienfuegos]

Governor DeSantis met with cruise industry lobbyists and execs today. Following the meeting, he expressed disappointment that Centers for Disease Control and Protection has not updated its cruise protocols.

 

Significantly, he said that Florida is well equipped for any ship outbreaks. That was a huge problem last year.

[Daniel A]

Latest news this week from Florida on bill to overturn the Key West referendum :

 

"TALLAHASSEE (CBSMiami/NSF) – A legislative effort to overturn a 2020 vote by Key West residents to limit cruise-ship operations continues to be narrowed to the Monroe County tourism community.

The House Commerce Committee on Monday voted 17-5 to approve an amended bill (HB 267) that would prohibit local governments from restricting maritime commerce within areas of “critical state concern.”

 

"The Senate version of the bill (SB 426) is slated to be heard Wednesday on the Senate floor."

 

Florida House Cruise Ship Bill Narrowed To Key West – CBS Miami (cbslocal.com)

[CT Sean]

I've been following the bills since you posted this originally. It's looking pretty good for those who like Key West as a cruise stop and bad for those who think locals should have a say in the local economy.

 

Edited to add:  Looks like it passed on the Senate floor this morning 25-14. 

 

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/426/?Tab=VoteHistory

 

House hasn't voted but all the subcommittee comments say "favorable" 

 

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/267/?Tab=BillHistory

 

I'd be pretty surprised if this doesn't pass in time for summer (obviously with the intent that cruising restarts from FL by summer)

Edited April 22, 2021 by CT Sean

[Dothan1952]

On 3/16/2021 at 8:03 AM, Hlitner said:

Just to keep it full disclosure, FL prohibits collection of fines for failure to follow local mask rules.  That being said you would have to look far and wide in our country to find folks who have actually paid fines for not wearing a mask.  And while we were in KY (early Dec) they did have a mask requirement (even outdoors) that was followed by more then 50%.

 

Those who live in States where Governor's are enjoying dictatorial powers might enjoy visiting FL where just about everything is open (and has been open) with the usual capacity restrictions.  They are doing much better then NY (where lock downs were strict) and about the same as the Newsom Republic of CA.

 

Hank

Hank you might want to rethink your Covid 19 analysis, California numbers have greatly improved, lower cases per 100,000 persons that Florida and Texas, very few red states are doing better than California  except for West Virginia (whose Governor has been very serious about Covid and had one of the best vaccine rollout)

[Hlitner]

7 minutes ago, Dothan1952 said:

Hank you might want to rethink your Covid 19 analysis, California numbers have greatly improved, lower cases per 100,000 persons that Florida and Texas, very few red states are doing better than California  except for West Virginia (whose Governor has been very serious about Covid and had one of the best vaccine rollout)

I am very happy to see things improving in CA and in much of the country (predicted as more folks get vaccinated)  You might note that CA and FL have pretty similar overall death rates from COVID but FL has managed to maintain a pretty healthy economy throughout much of the year.    As to COVID case statistics they are always questionable (in every State) because they are dependent on the amount of testing which varies greatly between States.    Another of those public health examples of "we do not know what we do not know."

 

One alarming statistic (for our entire country) is that "vaccine hesitancy" (those who choose not to get vaccinated) seems to be trending over 30%!  In my own State a poll has shown that about 1/3 of the adults do not want to be vaccinated.   Let us hope we do not have another COVID surge among the unvaccinated :(.  DW and I continue to live a normal life with several upcoming trips and normal socialization (we try to limit our "bubble" to only folks who are fully vaccinated).   We have a few friends who are anti-vaxers and they continue to live in fear of COVID (but have an even bigger fear of vaccines).   Once DW and I were fully vaccinated we felt "liberated."  And it is nice to know we can return to cruising and also traveling to parts of Europe.

 

Hank

[Daniel A]

On 4/22/2021 at 1:40 PM, CT Sean said:

I've been following the bills since you posted this originally. It's looking pretty good for those who like Key West as a cruise stop and bad for those who think locals should have a say in the local economy.

 

Edited to add:  Looks like it passed on the Senate floor this morning 25-14. 

 

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/426/?Tab=VoteHistory

 

House hasn't voted but all the subcommittee comments say "favorable" 

 

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/267/?Tab=BillHistory

 

I'd be pretty surprised if this doesn't pass in time for summer (obviously with the intent that cruising restarts from FL by summer)

Here is a hypothetical question for you.  If the KW ban is overruled by the state and then CDC allows a phased in approach to cruising using only all vaccinated cruises.  Would the Governor's order that no business operating in Florida can mandate a vaccine block those ships from KW anyway?

[CT Sean]

On 4/24/2021 at 6:02 PM, Daniel A said:

Here is a hypothetical question for you.  If the KW ban is overruled by the state and then CDC allows a phased in approach to cruising using only all vaccinated cruises.  Would the Governor's order that no business operating in Florida can mandate a vaccine block those ships from KW anyway?

That order should block them from departing from FL in the first place wouldn't they?  At least last I heard, Royal and Norwegian (others as well) will require vaccines. If they stick with that they either can't operate in FL at all, or they fight it. I have trouble believing the order would be upheld in court.  

[Daniel A]

I looks like the bill got killed in the Florida House.  It might get resurrected but it looks like some 'poison pill' amendments were added to the House version which made it unpalatable.

 

"A Florida bill that would overturn voters' decision to limit cruise ships in Key West was declared "dead" in Florida's House by one if its sponsors.

According to the Tampa Bay Times, Rep. Spencer Roach, Republican of North Fort Myers, said he did not see "a path forward" for the bill, but did say that "anything can happen" between now and the end of the Legislature's 60-day session on Friday."

 

They may try again next session with a newer bill.

 

Florida legislation that would have overturned Key West votes limiting cruise industry appears 'dead' in the House: Travel Weekly

[Daniel A]

I guess it ain't over till the fat lady sings...

 

"A day after citizens of Key West thought the legislation aimed at overturning their vote to limit cruise ship traffic appeared dead, Republican legislative leaders quickly reversed course Wednesday and powered it past Democrats to send it to the governor.

 

Sen. Jim Boyd, the Bradenton Republican who sponsored the original bill that stalled earlier this week in the House, attached an amendment to an unrelated Senate transportation bill declaring that “any local ballot initiative or referendum may not restrict maritime commerce” at any one of Florida’s 15 deep-water ports.

 

The provision is retroactive, applying the ban to three referendums approved by 60% of Key West voters in November."  

 

State Lawmakers Pass Preemption Bill On Key West Cruise Referendum | WLRN

 

Here is a link to the actual amendment which passed:

2021 S01194 116138 (flsenate.gov)

 

Now, it's up to the Governor.

[CT Sean]

Gee I wonder whether desantis will sign it or not.  It's a bit off topic, but with his "anti-vaccine mandate", the only way ships can sail to or from FL is if the cruiselines backtrack on their (verbal) vaccine requirements - or fight it in court of course.  Even fully vaccinated (which I currently am) - there's no way I'd get on a ship that doesn't require them.

Edited May 3, 2021 by CT Sean

[Daniel A]

34 minutes ago, CT Sean said:

Gee I wonder whether desantis will sign it or not.  It's a bit off topic, but with his "anti-vaccine mandate", the only way ships can sail to or from FL is if the cruiselines backtrack on their (verbal) vaccine requirements - or fight it in court of course.  Even fully vaccinated (which I currently am) - there's no way I'd get on a ship that doesn't require them.

Under Florida law, if he does nothing, it still becomes law.  He actually needs to state he is vetoing the bill.  I don't think he will veto the law, because the Key West amendment got attached to a bill which has very wide support for other important issues.

[CT Sean]

On 5/3/2021 at 8:45 AM, Daniel A said:

Under Florida law, if he does nothing, it still becomes law.  He actually needs to state he is vetoing the bill.  I don't think he will veto the law, because the Key West amendment got attached to a bill which has very wide support for other important issues.

Do you know if it would have defaulted to law by now?  I can't find anything after that April 29th article

[Daniel A]

2 hours ago, CT Sean said:

Do you know if it would have defaulted to law by now?  I can't find anything after that April 29th article

You are certainly putting my research skills to the test!  After looking for about 45 minutes, I do not see where DeSantis signed that bill (SB 1194).  That being said, unless he vetoes the bill ( I didn't see that either...) the bill becomes law 60 days after the legislature adjourns for the year.  The legislature adjourned on April 30 this year so, the bill should become law on June 29 unless DeSantis signs a veto (very unlikely).  That June 29 is an interesting date for it to become a law as the actual text of the law is written that it would take effect on July 1.

 

I expect that we will know by seeing howls of protest on CC and in the media after the KW referendum is actually preempted.  

[CT Sean]

60 days - that's what I was missing.  Certainly convenient timing. It gives little time for anyone to try and block it depending on when (if) cruising does resume this summer.

[Daniel A]

I see on Carnival's web site that they are selling a number of cruises which will stop at Key West.  At least one of the ships scheduled to stop there is the Sunrise with a total compliment of crew and passengers of 4,092.

[Daniel A]

On 5/20/2021 at 4:36 PM, CT Sean said:

60 days - that's what I was missing.  Certainly convenient timing. It gives little time for anyone to try and block it depending on when (if) cruising does resume this summer.

If you look at the following web site, you can see the cruise ships scheduled to arrive in Key West and the dates.  It is interesting to note that the list starts with a stop on July 3, 2021.  You can also look at future months on this site as well.

 

Key West (Florida) cruise port schedule | CruiseMapper

 

 

[CT Sean]

I'm guessing the cruise ship ban is finally about to officially get preempted

 

https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2021/1194

 

6/28/2021

• Signed by Officers and presented to Governor

Edited June 29, 2021 by CT Sean
wording

[Cinerama]

Signed by governor - https://www.royalcaribbeanblog.com/2021/06/30/florida-governor-signs-bill-overrule-key-west-cruise-ship-ban

Edited June 30, 2021 by Cinerama

[Hlitner]

13 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

Is this pretty much final at this point?  Are the chances of Key West turning this over a real possibility?

We have it on good authority that the Key West authorities are "looking at their options."  That being said,  they will have an uphill battle if they decide to go to court against their own State government.

 

Hank

[Daniel A]

14 hours ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

Is this pretty much final at this point?  Are the chances of Key West turning this over a real possibility?

Interesting question.  I think if the original bill which got whittled down to just KW passed, I think there would have been a chance of overturning it.  When the concept got added into a transportation bill covering the entire state, I believe it was no longer a targeted preemption of one jurisdictions perceived authority.  This bill affirms that it is the state that can control and regulate the borders of the state, not a hodgepodge of local jurisdictions.  Because of this, I think that @Hlitner is correct It may very well be an uphill battle indeed.  Besides KW may need whatever 'paltry' income they get from cruise ships and their passengers to finance the legal battle with Tallahassee.  

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, CarelessAndConfused said:

I don't want to go against the tide of any community's wishes, and this one is messy because there's enough to sympathize with the perspective from both sides.  However, selfishly speaking, I do have a short cruise in April I booked and Key West was a deal maker for that booking so I'm just hoping that won't turn into a sea day.

Unless KW files suit and requests a preliminary injunction and it is granted, any lawsuit will drag on well past April.  I don't see KW documenting irreparable harm and likelihood of winning the suit justifying the issuance of a preliminary injunction.  So, I think your day in KW is safe.  Enjoy your day!  😊