Compulsory offshore excursions due to Covid with P&O

[nosapphire]

3 hours ago, davecttr said:

Try this one 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9181135/Government-funding-EIGHT-vaccine-passport-schemes-450-000.html
 

I have no concerns about data sharing.

I do have concerns about how useful it will be - let's face it, neither the Gov or the NHS have a very good track record on accurate, effective computer systems.

 

[Son of Anarchy]

14 minutes ago, nosapphire said:

I have no concerns about data sharing.

I do have concerns about how useful it will be - let's face it, neither the Gov or the NHS have a very good track record on accurate, effective computer systems.

 

Its the government's poor track record regarding computer systems that concerns me about data sharing.

[Harry Peterson]

1 hour ago, joeecco said:

I think having the option to move your booking is more than fair given the circumstances. They are a business at the end of the day, not a charity. 

They may be a business, but businesses also have to comply with the law, and abide by contractual agreements. 

[terrierjohn]

2 hours ago, Zombatar said:

Surely everyone has a smartphone now!!📱

I have a smartphone but still only have a PAYG deal, so unless there is free wifi available it's still fairly dumb.

[joeecco]

20 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

They may be a business, but businesses also have to comply with the law, and abide by contractual agreements. 

The whole world is dealing with the same issue, I really don’t see people getting anywhere with this one like Moley has said the package itself hasn’t changed and it is protecting passenger safety. 
move your cruise, pick cheaper excursions, stay on the ship or forfeit your deposit. Four perfectly acceptable options, they aren’t backing you into a corner. 

[Dinglebert]

Its a difficult one.  My preference when arriving in some places is to do nothing but get off the ship and play it by ear.  We may take the hop on/off bus when may just sit and have a coffee and have a look round.

 

Thats going to be difficult to replicate with any excursion.  It will be what it is I suppose.

[yorkshirephil]

16 minutes ago, joeecco said:

The whole world is dealing with the same issue, I really don’t see people getting anywhere with this one like Moley has said the package itself hasn’t changed and it is protecting passenger safety. 
move your cruise, pick cheaper excursions, stay on the ship or forfeit your deposit. Four perfectly acceptable options, they aren’t backing you into a corner. 

But the most important option in my opinion, give me my money back. We are in the middle of a crisis and most of us are willing to compromise, so why doesn't P&O? I cannot see how a company can justify keeping your money if you are not willing to accept something that doesn't appeal to you or you wouldn't have booked knowing the T&C's.

[kalos]

3 hours ago, Zombatar said:

Surely everyone has a smartphone now!!📱

 

Nope !  Nokia 520 Lumia (Windows) 

 

 

 

Edited February 4, 2021 by kalos

[Selbourne]

28 minutes ago, joeecco said:

The whole world is dealing with the same issue, I really don’t see people getting anywhere with this one like Moley has said the package itself hasn’t changed and it is protecting passenger safety. 
move your cruise, pick cheaper excursions, stay on the ship or forfeit your deposit. Four perfectly acceptable options, they aren’t backing you into a corner. 

The problem is that not being able to go ashore independently is just one of many things that will make the cruise experience entirely different to what people originally booked. Luckily we don’t have any current bookings, but if we did then the prospect of not being able to go ashore independently, having to wear masks around the ship, being restricted in dining choices etc whilst all perfectly sensible and understandable would make it an ordeal for us, not an enjoyable holiday. On that basis, it bears no resemblance to what we would have booked and we would expect a full refund of our deposit. P&O very much rely on people who are prepared to accept whatever morsels they throw at them, but a refund has to be an option IMO. 

[yorkshirephil]

[Harry Peterson]

21 minutes ago, joeecco said:

The whole world is dealing with the same issue, I really don’t see people getting anywhere with this one like Moley has said the package itself hasn’t changed and it is protecting passenger safety. 
move your cruise, pick cheaper excursions, stay on the ship or forfeit your deposit. Four perfectly acceptable options, they aren’t backing you into a corner. 

He, as a P&O employee, has his viewpoint, which of course he’s fully entitled to, as are you.

 

Others, like myself, take the view that the differences between the holiday as it was originally marketed and sold and the holiday as it will actually be, after all the restrictions and changes, are so substantial that they amount to a  ‘significant alteration’.

 

If that’s the case, and I’d be very surprised if a judge took a different view, all holiday payments, including the deposit, are fully refundable.

 

P&O could chance their arm and allow it to go to court, but if they lose they have a huge problem. By settling with individuals who take them on, using non-disclosure agreements, they limit the financial costs very substantially, and that’s the approach they usually take.

[kalos]

6 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

So that's what a smart phone looks like 

[jeanlyon]

9 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The problem is that not being able to go ashore independently is just one of many things that will make the cruise experience entirely different to what people originally booked. Luckily we don’t have any current bookings, but if we did then the prospect of not being able to go ashore independently, having to wear masks around the ship, being restricted in dining choices etc whilst all perfectly sensible and understandable would make it an ordeal for us, not an enjoyable holiday. On that basis, it bears no resemblance to what we would have booked and we would expect a full refund of our deposit. P&O very much rely on people who are prepared to accept whatever morsels they throw at them, but a refund has to be an option IMO. 

Yes totally agree I'm afraid.  We booked our cruise back in October 2019, so it won't resemble anything we are used to.

[yorkshirephil]

1 minute ago, kalos said:

So that's what a smart phone looks like 

When you were used to 2 tin cans and a length of string then that is definitely smart.

[kalos]

2 minutes ago, yorkshirephil said:

When you were used to 2 tin cans and a length of string then that is definitely smart.

 

South Yorkshire still use smoke signals 

 Eg  Burnt down WMC = Last neets group were rubbish 

[Windsurfboy]

3 hours ago, Zombatar said:

Surely everyone has a smartphone now!!📱

 

I don't have a smart phone. I'm  not a technophobe, or that old

 

been using computers for 50 years, can code (which seems to be the modern jargon for writing programs ) in multiple languages.  I have two PCs . I keep one for financial work which I never Google , never email , never use social media etc etc  and only go on the sites I bank with, so is secure, never had a problem with malware, etc. One other PC for general stuff , then for social media like this , or WhatsApp etc , I   use my tablet which is far more ergonomic than a smart phone. When I'm out I have a nice little phone that can fit in my pocket. Absolutely no desire for a smartphone, unless it becomes  absolute neccasary for compulsory apps.

 

The idea that having a smartphone makes you technically literate, and you must old fuddy if you don't is the arrogance of youth

Edited February 4, 2021 by Windsurfboy

[Snow Hill]

3 hours ago, Zombatar said:

Surely everyone has a smartphone now!!📱

My in-laws don’t. I know a number of people who still only have a basic phone.

[joeecco]

26 minutes ago, Selbourne said:

The problem is that not being able to go ashore independently is just one of many things that will make the cruise experience entirely different to what people originally booked. Luckily we don’t have any current bookings, but if we did then the prospect of not being able to go ashore independently, having to wear masks around the ship, being restricted in dining choices etc whilst all perfectly sensible and understandable would make it an ordeal for us, not an enjoyable holiday. On that basis, it bears no resemblance to what we would have booked and we would expect a full refund of our deposit. P&O very much rely on people who are prepared to accept whatever morsels they throw at them, but a refund has to be an option IMO. 

All of those issues except going ashore will be exactly the same on land, it’s the way of life for the foreseeable. 
I’m grateful that they are still afloat and can get back sailing when it’s safe, if they start handing out even more refunds then that just puts them more in the red. 

[joeecco]

28 minutes ago, Harry Peterson said:

He, as a P&O employee, has his viewpoint, which of course he’s fully entitled to, as are you.

 

Others, like myself, take the view that the differences between the holiday as it was originally marketed and sold and the holiday as it will actually be, after all the restrictions and changes, are so substantial that they amount to a  ‘significant alteration’.

 

If that’s the case, and I’d be very surprised if a judge took a different view, all holiday payments, including the deposit, are fully refundable.

 

P&O could chance their arm and allow it to go to court, but if they lose they have a huge problem. By settling with individuals who take them on, using non-disclosure agreements, they limit the financial costs very substantially, and that’s the approach they usually take.

We’ll have to agree to disagree. 

Edited February 4, 2021 by joeecco
Read it wrong originally!

[jeanlyon]

I have had a mobile for some years, but got my first Smartphone about 2 years ago.  I have to confess I find it wonderful.   It's only PAYG, but with my Simcard, calls are only 3p per minute, texts less and data about 1p .  Mostly I can get buy on wifi.  It's wonderful.

[tring]

2 hours ago, nosapphire said:

I have no concerns about data sharing.

I do have concerns about how useful it will be - let's face it, neither the Gov or the NHS have a very good track record on accurate, effective computer systems.

 

 

I got a smart phone last year when there was only talk about using an app for test and trace.  As it transpired the app used which is being run by the person who was running talk talk when they had the big data loss (including our details) a few years ago and we still get constant scam phone calls.  Hence we have steadfastly not used the test and trace app and have no intention of doing so.

[Snow Hill]

1 minute ago, tring said:

 

I got a smart phone last year when there was only talk about using an app for test and trace.  As it transpired the app used which is being run by the person who was running talk talk when they had the big data loss (including our details) a few years ago and we still get constant scam phone calls.  Hence we have steadfastly not used the test and trace app and have no intention of doing so.

The Test & Trace app doesn’t capture any personal data, it works on proximity using Bluetooth capabilities of the phone, this was a joint development between Apple & Google. 
 

Dido Harding wasn’t involved in its development, whether she should be in charge of the Test & Trace process instead of someone with Public Health experience is another question.

[Snow Hill]

Having spent 35 years working in the IT Field, I have a smartphone for some years now, I had a Blackberry when I was at worked which was smartish.

 

I use my current one for numerous things, including making phone calls! 

[Ardennais]

3 hours ago, joeecco said:

I think having the option to move your booking is more than fair given the circumstances. They are a business at the end of the day, not a charity. 

I disagree, for the reasons that I’ve already stated. And what would be the point of moving a booking if the circumstances are likely to remain the same? 
As I said, I don’t know your cruising arrangements, but for a family of 5 or more on a 14 or 17 nighter, this change could cost thousands (I’ve had a quick look at my spreadsheet of past cruises and excursions in St P, Rome, Barcelona and Athens to name some really did mount up). And cruises during school hols are already costly.

So yes, I would expect some compromise. In that situation, we would be compromising by giving up a longed for holiday (booked pre Covid). 

As a matter of interest, are you the poster hoping to get married on Azura this summer?

 

 

[Dinglebert]

One unknown is how the local taxis, buses, tour companies are going to react around the ports.  They have made their money by picking up cruisers. That revenue will be gone.  Same for local cafes etc.