Cruise with/without a mask

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, capriccio said:

As of today the only bright spots concern the vaccines: the number of cases in vaccinated age cohorts is decreasing and that the 65 years old and older cohort are getting vaccinated.

 

Some good news, more bad news out of Florida and especially south Florida this evening.

(https://www.sun-sentinel.com/coronavirus/fl-ne-new-infections-on-rise-but-vaccines-having-effect-20210327-x7me2yvitzfbtnw3lman53v7fa-story.html?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Breaking News Alerts&utm_content=1491616888828#nws=true😞

 

Bad News:

• South Florida (Miami-Dade, Broward [Fort Lauderdale] and Palm Beach counties) had a 5.7% increase in new cases compared with the seven-day period a week earlier. Miami-Dade and Broward lead the state in new cases.
• South Florida is in the top 10% of metropolitan areas in the country for the number of new infections per 100,000 people, ranking 28th out of 392.
• transmission level in those counties over the last seven days puts it in the red zone.
• the increases in those counties appear to be driven by rising cases in people ages 15 to 34.
• Florida state-wide saw an increase in the daily case average over the past week.
• COVID testing has dropped significantly throughout Florida, from an average of 32,500 tests a day in February to 25,500 in March.

Good News:

• new cases in people older than 65 declined 7%.
• as of today almost three-quarters of Floridians 65 and older have received at least one dose of a COVID vaccine and about half are fully vaccinated.

 

 

 

Thank you for reporting the facts and numbers rather than the spin some prefer. 

[BlueRiband]

No.

[sverigecruiser]

NO, as long as masks are mandatory we won't cruise.

 

I never wear one now and shouldn't enjoy an expensive vacation if I had to wear a mask. If I was offered a free cruise but had to wear a mask I might do it but probably not.

 

The only place masks are "strongly recommended" (as close to mandatory as it goes here) is in public transportation and I don't use that in my daily life so no need to wear a mask. 

[Redwing55]

Reading this thread, and frankly many other comments from experts elsewhere, demonstrates how much misinformation is being accepted.  I'm not going to specifics, but I will say that people can all have their own opinions.  And ANYONE that says an absolute is just off base.  Time after time, in many an area, a certainty is proved wrong and assumptions were demonstrated to lead to incorrect conclusions.  So, what's one to do?   Make one own choices based upon what risks and counsel one wants to accept.  We all have our bias, and saying "science" says can be just as incorrect as "her opinion was"

 

Here's hoping we make the best choice.. granted best has a different meaning for each of us.

[ldubs]

5 minutes ago, Redwing55 said:

Reading this thread, and frankly many other comments from experts elsewhere, demonstrates how much misinformation is being accepted.  I'm not going to specifics, but I will say that people can all have their own opinions.  And ANYONE that says an absolute is just off base.  Time after time, in many an area, a certainty is proved wrong and assumptions were demonstrated to lead to incorrect conclusions.  So, what's one to do?   Make one own choices based upon what risks and counsel one wants to accept.  We all have our bias, and saying "science" says can be just as incorrect as "her opinion was"

 

Here's hoping we make the best choice.. granted best has a different meaning for each of us.

 

"I'm not going to specifics . . ."   Probably a good thing.  

 

I think you are saying everyone should just do what they want.  I don't agree with that.  But,  I appreciate your forthrightness about making decisions based on what is wanted as opposed to what is fact.   

[Redwing55]

3 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

"I'm not going to specifics . . ."   Probably a good thing.  

 

I think you are saying everyone should just do what they want.  I don't agree with that.  But,  I appreciate your forthrightness about making decisions based on what is wanted as opposed to what is fact.   

I'm not advocating that.  "do what they want." 

 

I am saying that we all have to choose what is most important or valued to oneself.  One should obey regulations/laws, etc, but one doesn't have to accept the rational behind them.  Like one might think they know that the speed limit on a road is incorrect, but they should still abide by it.

 

  Having an engineering and regulatory background, I've seen first hand multi-million dollar impacts that proved unnecessary due to too much control (wasted capital etc.) or not enough (damages occurred due to oversights or faulty assumptions.)  All based mostly on what most of the public would consider "science."   My overreaching point is one might try to challenge what they readily accept since further exploration/investigation can often uncover a totally different and possibly more accurate conclusion.....especially with contentious issues.

[Donald]

My uncle is caught up in the American politicization of the COVID issue.

He refuses to wear a mask and refuses to believe that masks are useful in preventing the spread of a virus. He also claims that wearing a mask to prevent illness violates his civil liberties.

 

He goes in for major surgery next week.

I suggested that before the surgery, he should contact the surgeon and voice his respect for the civil liberties of the Doctors and Nurses in the operation theater. To prove he means it, he needs to ask the Doctors and Nurses to not wear surgical masks during his operation. After all, the masks don't work anyway. This way, the medical team will be more comfortable, and their civil liberties will remain intact.

 

He thought about my idea for one or two minutes; then decided that his health was more important than their civil liberties. He is planning to ask them to keep the masks on during his surgery.

[frantic36]

1 hour ago, Donald said:

He thought about my idea for one or two minutes; then decided that his health was more important than their civil liberties. He is planning to ask them to keep the masks on during his surgery.

😂🤣Exactly.

 

As a retired nurse who frequently wore a mask while helping with surgical procedures and while doing dressings. Some of those dressings have taken almost an hour due to their complexity and I am standing in one small spot working. I listen to these civil libertarians complaining about wearing a mask and wonder how they would feel if I chose to not wear a mask if I had to perform a procedure on them.

 

Surgical cases can take multiple hours and you also have the extra weight of heavy gowns plus latex gloves.

Edited March 29, 2021 by frantic36

[Redwing55]

11 hours ago, Donald said:

My uncle is caught up in the American politicization of the COVID issue.

He refuses to wear a mask and refuses to believe that masks are useful in preventing the spread of a virus. He also claims that wearing a mask to prevent illness violates his civil liberties.

 

He goes in for major surgery next week.

I suggested that before the surgery, he should contact the surgeon and voice his respect for the civil liberties of the Doctors and Nurses in the operation theater. To prove he means it, he needs to ask the Doctors and Nurses to not wear surgical masks during his operation. After all, the masks don't work anyway. This way, the medical team will be more comfortable, and their civil liberties will remain intact.

 

He thought about my idea for one or two minutes; then decided that his health was more important than their civil liberties. He is planning to ask them to keep the masks on during his surgery.

Uh, masks in surgery are worn for different reasons than to prevent Covid spread.  Also K95's do have some better containment- which most of us do not wear.  Many of the masks we see day to day are improperly worn, bad fitting, or VERY likely soiled.  Heck just watch ANY speaker and count the number of times they reposition the mask.

 

Personally, your example is flawed as you're conflating purposes.  Post what you want, but much speculation remains as to the most common routes for Covid transmission.  Until that is determined, one can not know how effective one type of face covering is better than another.  That is true.  There have been some studies, some, that look at aerosols.  But in the end, it's really unknown as to if aerosols are the means of transmission.   FWIW, I had worn masks... still do if required, but I continue to doubt the effectiveness of many that I see worn.

[mammajamma2013]

11 hours ago, Donald said:

He thought about my idea for one or two minutes; then decided that his health was more important than their civil liberties. He is planning to ask them to keep the masks on during his surgery.

So does he continue to believe that his civil liberties are more important than other peoples' health or has he started masking?

[ldubs]

12 hours ago, Redwing55 said:

I'm not advocating that.  "do what they want." 

 

I am saying that we all have to choose what is most important or valued to oneself.  One should obey regulations/laws, etc, but one doesn't have to accept the rational behind them.  Like one might think they know that the speed limit on a road is incorrect, but they should still abide by it.

 

  Having an engineering and regulatory background, I've seen first hand multi-million dollar impacts that proved unnecessary due to too much control (wasted capital etc.) or not enough (damages occurred due to oversights or faulty assumptions.)  All based mostly on what most of the public would consider "science."   My overreaching point is one might try to challenge what they readily accept since further exploration/investigation can often uncover a totally different and possibly more accurate conclusion.....especially with contentious issues.

 

Fair enough.  And I agree that it can be a good thing to question/challenge.  And I'll add that I find it sad these days those who might legitimatly question are attacked and called names.  But, I don't agree, and apparently you were not saying,  that it is ok to pick and choose those "facts" that meet one's personal preferences.  

[wowzz]

I see that Spain are enforcing the wearing of masks even when sunbathing on the beach this summer.

Good luck to anyone trying the civil liberty approach with the GC !

[Roberto256]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:42 PM, wowzz said:

Perhaps the most stupid remark of 2021 so far!

But, it's only April!

 

I think we can all hope for higher achievement during the rest of the year.

 

[Roberto256]

On 3/27/2021 at 1:04 PM, voljeep said:

and the Gov is fighting CDC for the benefit of Floridians

 

Well, some of them, anyway...

 

"Since DeSantis started using the state’s vaccine initiative to steer special pop-up vaccinations to select communities, his political committee has raised $2.7 million in the month of February alone, more than any other month since he first ran for governor in 2018, records show."

 

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/florida-keys/article249666463.html

[cb at sea]

Nope.  Don't wear one at home, not wearing one on vacation.

 

[ldubs]

47 minutes ago, cb at sea said:

Nope.  Don't wear one at home, not wearing one on vacation.

 

 

I doubt too many wear masks at home.   😀

[clo]

47 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

I doubt too many wear masks at home.   😀

That's too bad that this far along that @cb at sea doesn't know this. 

[keywestbruce]

I would not waste my money on a cruise that requires any type of masking. It should all be optional, and after 13 months of living with masks and social distancing, we should be able to respect other people's spaces. The thought of a muzzle over my nose and mouth on deck when at sea with all of that magnificent fresh sea air is repulsive to me. And after paying a hefty price for a beloved cruise the thought of someone or a crew member telling me to mask up, or cover my nose, is out of the question!!! I have chosen not to get vaccinated, and I am hoping the cruise lines start to recognize that there is a large segment of cruisers who want to resume cruising, but for one reason or another, are not getting the vaccine. As much as I am yearning to cruise, I will not submit to a vaccination to do so. I will wait till cooler minds prevail, and as herd immunity becomes more of a reality, I strongly urge the cruise companies to NOT require vaccination, but maybe go with a negative Covid test. That should suffice.

[wowzz]

4 hours ago, keywestbruce said:

I would not waste my money on a cruise that requires any type of masking. It should all be optional, and after 13 months of living with masks and social distancing, we should be able to respect other people's spaces. The thought of a muzzle over my nose and mouth on deck when at sea with all of that magnificent fresh sea air is repulsive to me. And after paying a hefty price for a beloved cruise the thought of someone or a crew member telling me to mask up, or cover my nose, is out of the question!!! I have chosen not to get vaccinated, and I am hoping the cruise lines start to recognize that there is a large segment of cruisers who want to resume cruising, but for one reason or another, are not getting the vaccine. As much as I am yearning to cruise, I will not submit to a vaccination to do so. I will wait till cooler minds prevail, and as herd immunity becomes more of a reality, I strongly urge the cruise companies to NOT require vaccination, but maybe go with a negative Covid test. That should suffice.

You want to wait for herd immunity to take effect, but won't be vaccinated yourself.  Oh, the irony! 

[BoozinCroozin]

8 hours ago, keywestbruce said:

I would not waste my money on a cruise that requires any type of masking. It should all be optional, and after 13 months of living with masks and social distancing, we should be able to respect other people's spaces. 

There should be no requirement of masks anyway. It is starting to look like a fully vaccinated ship is what will be required. Although slightly against that for anyone under 16, if that is what it takes, then so be it. Pfizer will have its vaccine approved for 12-15 year olds shortly (a month or two maybe). Those with younger kids, I feel sorry for you until the mandate is lifted (assuming it exists). If masks are "required", it will be when not eating or drinking. Simply carry a water bottle everywhere and the drinking part covers not wearing a mask.

[sverigecruiser]

49 minutes ago, BoozinCroozin said:

There should be no requirement of masks anyway. It is starting to look like a fully vaccinated ship is what will be required. Although slightly against that for anyone under 16, if that is what it takes, then so be it. Pfizer will have its vaccine approved for 12-15 year olds shortly (a month or two maybe). Those with younger kids, I feel sorry for you until the mandate is lifted (assuming it exists). If masks are "required", it will be when not eating or drinking. Simply carry a water bottle everywhere and the drinking part covers not wearing a mask.

 

Let's hope that the cruiselines can survive long enough if a fully vaccinated ship is what's required. Too many will not be vaccinated in time for summer even if they want to so there will probably be rather few cruises this summer if that's required.

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, sverigecruiser said:

 

Let's hope that the cruiselines can survive long enough if a fully vaccinated ship is what's required. Too many will not be vaccinated in time for summer even if they want to so there will probably be rather few cruises this summer if that's required.

Fully vaccinated ships ( passengers anyway) are sailing from the UK this summer, so it can be done.

[navybankerteacher]

4 hours ago, wowzz said:

You want to wait for herd immunity to take effect, but won't be vaccinated yourself.  Oh, the irony! 

I am not convinced it attains the level of irony.

[Sky616]

On 3/24/2021 at 7:42 PM, wowzz said:

Perhaps the most stupid remark of 2021 so far!

Truth

[wowzz]

2 minutes ago, Sky616 said:

Truth

Thanks for agreeing with me.