With Canada now closed to cruises until 2022 is now the time to repeal Jones’ Law?

[Aquahound]

Force majeure related to shipping, PVSA, and COVID can be applied in circumstances such as; a cruise ship currently at sea and fulfilling a contract is denied entry to foreign port due to the virus, and then must return to US port. 
 

However, force majeure cannot be used as a legal bypass to a contractual cruise that has not yet occurred. 

[ilikeanswers]

If you all want to go to Alaska so badly you can still fly 😂. Much easier than trying to overturn what sounds like complicated legislation😜. 

[Heidi13]

2 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

If you all want to go to Alaska so badly you can still fly 😂. Much easier than trying to overturn what sounds like complicated legislation😜. 

 

They can also drive/fly to Bellingham and then support the Alaska ferry system, which sails from Bellingham to Alaska. You also see way more of the Inside Passage on a ferry than a cruise ship.

[chengkp75]

As Paul says, force majeure cannot be applied"proactively", as a future cruise can be planned around the virus.

As for the POA, her exemption was enacted by Congress, not just an agreement or order.

[ontheweb]

6 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

They can also drive/fly to Bellingham and then support the Alaska ferry system, which sails from Bellingham to Alaska. You also see way more of the Inside Passage on a ferry than a cruise ship.

And you would not be forced to take a ship's excursion to get off the ferry.

[JRG]

5 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As Paul says, force majeure cannot be applied"proactively", as a future cruise can be planned around the virus.

As for the POA, her exemption was enacted by Congress, not just an agreement or order.

 

FM is not solely reserved for breach of contract.

 

It is used to arrive at judgment in the civil and maritime cases where the shoe fits.

 

I can see it being used effectively in an many different legal arguments.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JRG]

13 hours ago, broberts said:

Just because a cruise line does not like the alternatives for compliance does not justify an exemption.

 

Really?

 

It sounds like you may be moving to the beat of a different drummer.     

 

 

[JRG]

10 hours ago, ilikeanswers said:

If you all want to go to Alaska so badly you can still fly

 

I think that was one of the sideshows that came up earlier in the thread.

 

There might have been one or two posters trying to check their status on a 2021 Alaska Cruise,  but I don't think that is the crux of what we are talking about here.

 

I'm thinking long term (after the pandemic) about those debutantes in Houston that want to take the cruise to New Orleans and Ybor City while Daddy is away without having to stop in Progresso, Mexico.

 

They can't do it right now with things as they are.

 

 

 

 

 

[Charles4515]

20 minutes ago, JRG said:

 

Really?

 

It sounds like you may be moving to the beat of a different drummer.     

 

 

 

I believe it is you not @broberts who is marching to a different drummer. You seem pretty desperate. 

[JRG]

14 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

I believe it is you not @broberts who is marching to a different drummer. You seem pretty desperate. 

 

Its ok.  I remember you are one of the posters who is in favor of exempting cruiselines from PVSA without hurting cabotage,  but your concern is that is just never happened.  Or there has never been a reason to change and I totally understand.    

 

Like another poster who enjoys his R&R in Puerto Vallarta while surfing on CC,  we are lucky enough to own one of those (I won't say top 10),   I'll say Top 12 swimming pools that you see on TV.    I know that it sounds over the top,  but we own a resort-style backyard that would make Robin Leach crack a smile.

 

For example,  if I told you we had a slide for our pool you get an image.   Our water slide is a little different in that is made from artificial rocks,  54 large and medium boulders that form a 25ft dogleg left at a steep angle into the lagoon style pool salt-water pool with spa,  baja shelf and 5 laminars.

The laminars are water jets that shoot parabolic arcs of water 8 feet and at night are illuminated by LED lights in rainbow colors that synchronize with the pool and spa and landscape lights.   Most american pools have 1 or 2 pumps to manage their filtration and water features,  our has 4 because it also has a waterfall grotto and jets for the spa.

 

As I sit by my firepit and watch the satellites above past dusk I ponder the days questions and practice my creative thinking in this place, enjoying the fruits of my masonic labor and aquatic engineering.    

 

After dinner from our outdoor Palapa kitchen (which I made) we may sit in the Spa and rejuvenate ourselves in the perfectly heated balanced PH water with our favorite cocktail an elbow away.

 

I also enjoy that practice of Taxonomy as it relates to Tropical Palms,  many of which are native to islands which share similar climates and latitudes which enable them to thrive in my backyard,  some of them are spectacular and you would recognizes others specimens I have from your travels to places like Hawaii and Costa Rica.   When I can sit in the spa and see them illuminated at night it is like I am on vacation somewhere in the tropics.

 

As you may also guess Charles,   I am also a musician.   My point is that I don't feel desperate about talking about this PVSA subject.    It is interesting to me and I think there are upside benefits to cruisers in general and if there were ever a time when the status quo would have to change,  this time seems as good as any.

 

Find opportunity in the face of adversity I say.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[broberts]

1 hour ago, JRG said:

 

Really?

 

It sounds like you may be moving to the beat of a different drummer.     

 

 

 

If you feel an exemption is justified please present your arguments. At least those that don't boil down to "because I want to cruise".

 

No drummer at all. I take personal responsibility for my beliefs and actions.

Edited February 17, 2021 by broberts

[SelectSys]

12 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

They can also drive/fly to Bellingham and then support the Alaska ferry system, which sails from Bellingham to Alaska. You also see way more of the Inside Passage on a ferry than a cruise ship.

 

I actually think that this is a great idea and may make for an incredible experience - especially this year with general tourism so low!   You wouldn't even need to start in Bellingham and could start in the panhandle from Ketchikan or Juneau which both have good air service from Seattle.  

 

Getting on and off the ship at various stops for overnights would create an experience impossible to replicate on a normal cruise.  You also would be able to visit ports off of the normal cruise path.  It would really be quite an adventure for someone in the right frame of mind.  It would even be possible to extend the trip out into the Aleutian Islands on the ferry. 

 

Here is a portion of the route map for the Alaska Ferry system.

http://dot.alaska.gov/amhs/route.shtml 

[JRG]

1 hour ago, broberts said:

If you feel an exemption is justified please present your arguments.

 

its not about my arguments.   The Travel Juneau bureau sent a letter to the President.  (purportedly)

They presented their argument (not mine) for an exemption.

 

If you read the letter,   you will see why they feel is is justified.   It's really not about me,  I didn't have any plans to go to Alaska,  did it in 2019.  Go ahead and take a look and tell us what you think.

 

I think if you follow what I have been saying I think they have a justified argument in the short run,  maybe, maybe not.   

 

A good example I saw on Squawk Alley describing something else used the Peanuts Example:

           Maybe this is the time that Charlie Brown kicks the football and Lucy doesn't yank it away|

           Maybe he kicks it and it goes thru the uprights|  (referee signals kick is good )

           Maybe its a squib kick and nothing happens then so what....

 

          You try and try again.   If the President does see the upside now,  then maybe he will tomorrow.

 

In the long run,  I have been saying that maybe a change would be good.

 

[broberts]

5 hours ago, JRG said:

 

its not about my arguments.   The Travel Juneau bureau sent a letter to the President.  (purportedly)

They presented their argument (not mine) for an exemption.

 

If you read the letter,   you will see why they feel is is justified.   It's really not about me,  I didn't have any plans to go to Alaska,  did it in 2019.  Go ahead and take a look and tell us what you think.

 

I think if you follow what I have been saying I think they have a justified argument in the short run,  maybe, maybe not.   

 

A good example I saw on Squawk Alley describing something else used the Peanuts Example:

           Maybe this is the time that Charlie Brown kicks the football and Lucy doesn't yank it away|

           Maybe he kicks it and it goes thru the uprights|  (referee signals kick is good )

           Maybe its a squib kick and nothing happens then so what....

 

          You try and try again.   If the President does see the upside now,  then maybe he will tomorrow.

 

In the long run,  I have been saying that maybe a change would be good.

 

 

I wonder how much thought the Travel Juneau Bureau gave to the consequences of increased infection levels in small Alaskan communities? Communities that typically lack significant, easily accesed health care.

[Essiesmom]

7 hours ago, SelectSys said:

 

I actually think that this is a great idea and may make for an incredible experience - especially this year with general tourism so low!   You wouldn't even need to start in Bellingham and could start in the panhandle from Ketchikan or Juneau which both have good air service from Seattle.  

 

Getting on and off the ship at various stops for overnights would create an experience impossible to replicate on a normal cruise.  You also would be able to visit ports off of the normal cruise path.  It would really be quite an adventure for someone in the right frame of mind.  It would even be possible to extend the trip out into the Aleutian Islands on the ferry. 

 

Here is a portion of the route map for the Alaska Ferry system.

http://dot.alaska.gov/amhs/route.shtml 

And I believe you can bring your vehicle on the ferry.  Drive off and spend a day or two in Ketchikan, Juneau, Whittier and the interior.  Then ride the ferries back to Bellingham.  Uncruise also claims they will be doing Alaska this year, as they are US owned and crewed and don't need Canada.  Plus American Cruise Lines...  EM

[Heidi13]

12 minutes ago, Essiesmom said:

And I believe you can bring your vehicle on the ferry.  Drive off and spend a day or two in Ketchikan, Juneau, Whittier and the interior.  Then ride the ferries back to Bellingham.  Uncruise also claims they will be doing Alaska this year, as they are US owned and crewed and don't need Canada.  Plus American Cruise Lines...  EM

 

Affirmative, all the Alaska State Ferries I have seen can carry cars. Even the high speed ferries carried a small number of cars.

 

Obviously haven't worked for Alaska State Ferries, but I suspect their operation is very similar to our BC Ferries. Therefore, I have no doubt that cars are loaded and discharged at each port with a vehicle ramp. So yes, you could get off at a port and drive around the immediate area for a number of days.

[cruisemom42]

How much capacity is there with this ferry system? Aren't they likely to get booked out pretty quickly?  (I'm not planning on going but it sounds like a fine adventure.)

 

[ilikeanswers]

10 hours ago, JRG said:

There might have been one or two posters trying to check their status on a 2021 Alaska Cruise,  but I don't think that is the crux of what we are talking about here.

 

I'm thinking long term (after the pandemic) about those debutantes in Houston that want to take the cruise to New Orleans and Ybor City while Daddy is away without having to stop in Progresso, Mexico.

 

They can't do it right now with things as they are.

 

TBH my original post was a bit tongue in cheek. Reading all these posts you would think Alaska is a closed off state😂.  But to your point I don't think anyone but Alaska cares about the PVSA. From what I can tell they are the only ones in America heavily reliant on the domestic cruise industry for their tourism. I've visited New Orleans with no cruise ships docked on a week day, out of holiday season and the place was packed, so I would think they are doing just fine 😉. Alaska is in a weird position because they basically let the cruise industry monopolise their tourism. You can't blame the PVSA for the lack of diversification😂. At the end of the day Alaska is open and if people really want to visit they can and I reckon Juneau would be better off spending that time promoting themselves as a place to visit rather than wasting time lobbying for a hail Mary. 

[SelectSys]

2 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

How much capacity is there with this ferry system? Aren't they likely to get booked out pretty quickly?  (I'm not planning on going but it sounds like a fine adventure.)

 

 

http://dot.alaska.gov/amhs/fleet.shtml

Looks like the ships normally carry up to 500 passengers.   It's not a huge fleet, so 1 or 2 departures a week for the largest ships.  Smaller day boats probably run more frequently between cities/towns on the panhandle.

 

Given what's posted on the web, it looks like they have a following and even have established the concept of "ferry camping" with ships providing areas for passengers to pitch tents.

http://www.alaskaferrycamping.com/

 

I agree, it looks interesting  option for someone who wants to see the Alaskan Panhandle in a more local, less rushed fashion.

 

 

 

[Heidi13]

11 hours ago, cruisemom42 said:

How much capacity is there with this ferry system? Aren't they likely to get booked out pretty quickly?  (I'm not planning on going but it sounds like a fine adventure.)

 

 

I suspect they are probably similar to our system, where the vehicle decks are often fully booked, but we rarely hit max passenger numbers.

[Cruzaholic41]

23 hours ago, JRG said:

 

Really?

 

It sounds like you may be moving to the beat of a different drummer.     

 

 

Reading through this thread, it’s clear you are the one marching to a different beat. You seem to have a hard time absorbing the facts being told to you. Your ideas, while certainly outside the box thinking, are simply unrealistic. 

[SelectSys]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

I suspect they are probably similar to our system, where the vehicle decks are often fully booked, but we rarely hit max passenger numbers.

 

It seems the Alaska system is somewhat in turmoil - most of it not COVID-related - and the capacity is lower than in years past.

 

https://www.ktoo.org/2021/01/31/alaska-marine-highway-proposes-lean-summer-schedule-new-ferries-to-stay-tied-to-the-dock/

 

Here are the key schedule elements for the adventurous! 

Proposed Vessel Deployment (May 1-September 30):

• Kennicott to operate Bellingham/Juneau cross the Gulf to Southwest, twice per month.
• Matanuska to operate on the Wednesday Bellingham Route.
• LeConte to sail Northern Panhandle.
• Lituya to sail 5 days per week between Annette Bay and Ketchikan
• Tustumena to sail the Southwest Route with one Aleutian chain trip per month.
• Aurora to sail Prince William Sound.

[JRG]

3 hours ago, Cruzaholic41 said:

Reading through this thread, it’s clear you are the one marching to a different beat. You seem to have a hard time absorbing the facts being told to you. Your ideas, while certainly outside the box thinking, are simply unrealistic.

 

thanks for for always being there,  I know advanced concepts seem bizarre to some and you always have the same message to say to me.

 

If you want to play Boo Radley then you have to do or say something honorable or funny at least.

 

Take it out on the bingo stamper,  and you don't need to stamp the center square.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by JRG

[JRG]

 

Cruzaholic41 ,   what don't you get about this.  All the other cruzaholics will get it.

 

It could be nothing,   but 1 cruiseline (Celebrity) is saying that they are trying to get  a workaround for the distant port requirement,  and they have put it in writing to their customers who have cruises booked.  (last time I checked a few days ago).   

 

Can you please go do the research yourself and discover what I am talking about,  because if it turns out the Celebrity knows something that you and I don't and they pull a rabbit out of their hat,  then somebody is going to be doing the bingo chicken dance and it isn't me.

 

Then come back and tell us me what you think when you are ready.

 

Thanks.

 

 

Edited February 18, 2021 by JRG

[JRG]

2 hours ago, SelectSys said:

It seems the Alaska system is somewhat in turmoil - most of it not COVID-related - and the capacity is lower than in years past.

 

That is a good 'Gotcha'      What a joke of a solution!

 

It appears the the Alaska Ferry System has boatloads of problems from declining membership to hull deterioration and on-going maintenance issues.

 

Don't take my word for it,  google Alaska Ferry System Problems.

 

Why are marine professionals proposing this as a solution on this thread?   Do they not know the current state of affairs in this area?