Can cruise companies refuse to give money back for cancelled cruises and give ONLY FCC?

[Waquoit]

On 2/18/2021 at 1:59 PM, Two Wheels Only said:

 

NCL didn't "refuse to give money back", you chose to take the "FCC with perks".

And NCL cancelled the next cruise on them. They should get that money back. NCL has had their money for over a year and has provided nothing. It's criminal.

[Waquoit]

On 2/23/2021 at 11:22 AM, DCGuy64 said:

I read something last year on here that I liked in that regard. The person said that the cost of a vacation is a sunk cost, meaning that you never expect to get your money back, you expect to go on a vacation. If it's canceled, you simply forego the experience of the vacation. In essence, the money was going to be gone anyway. That's a good way to look at it, in my view. We had a trip to the DR cancelled due to Covid last month. I'm still trying to get the insurance company to refund us, since we took out trip insurance including Covid, as a precaution. I'll be annoyed if they don't refund us, but the money was gone anyway, we just didn't get the trip.

If only all victims of a scam were so easy. The vacation that one did not receive has value. It has value long after the trip has been concluded. To not get what you paid for, not get a refund is not a sunk cost.  It's larceny.

[PTC DAWG]

13 minutes ago, Waquoit said:

And NCL cancelled the next cruise on them. They should get that money back. NCL has had their money for over a year and has provided nothing. It's criminal.

IF it's criminal, they should turn it over to the local District Attorney, see how far they get with that.  

 

The OP chose to take a "store credit"...I've never heard of a store converting that to CASH after the fact.  

Edited February 24, 2021 by PTC DAWG

[DCGuy64]

3 minutes ago, Waquoit said:

If only all victims of a scam were so easy. The vacation that one did not receive has value. It has value long after the trip has been concluded. To not get what you paid for, not get a refund is not a sunk cost.  It's larceny.

Scam? Hardly. A scam would be if I paid money to a fake corporation. NCL isn't a scam, and it's not larceny. That's ridiculous. Under normal circumstances, the best I'd say is that if you pay with FCC, you get FCC. If you pay with cash, you get cash. We paid for a cruise on another line and then opted to take FCC for a future cruise (which is now booked). If that cruise is cancelled, we'll be fine with FCC again.

But these aren't normal times, and I for one do not fault the cruise lines for holding onto money that passengers can then use in the future. There's no scam here. If you were promised FCC and then the company said "too bad, we're not honoring that," then you might have a case. However, I stand by what I said: once you pay money for a trip, that money is gone. All you'll forfeit due to a cancellation is the experience, you were never going to get that money back.

[DCGuy64]

2 minutes ago, PTC DAWG said:

IF it's criminal, they should turn it over to the local District Attorney, see how far they get with that.  

 

The OP chose to take a "store credit"...I've never heard of a store converting that to CASH after the fact.  

Exactly. I used to work at a large bookstore. People who returned books would sometimes take a store credit and then later attempt to get cash. Too late. (and some of them hadn't even bought the books in the first place, they were Christmas presents so it wasn't even their own money). Now THAT'S criminal.

 

[Two Wheels Only]

1 hour ago, Waquoit said:

And NCL cancelled the next cruise on them. They should get that money back. NCL has had their money for over a year and has provided nothing. It's criminal.

 

The OP HAD THE OPTION TO TAKE THE CASH and instead chose the FCC. 

 

Once that was done, the cash option was gone. The 2nd cruise was booked with FCC. The cancelled 2nd cruise could only have FCC returned. 

Edited February 24, 2021 by Two Wheels Only

[BirdTravels]

6 hours ago, Waquoit said:

If only all victims of a scam were so easy. The vacation that one did not receive has value. It has value long after the trip has been concluded. To not get what you paid for, not get a refund is not a sunk cost.  It's larceny.

Please....

 

Everyone with a cancelled cruise was given the option of getting a cash refund. No victims. Yeah?

 

Some people elected to get a bigger "gift card" (FCC) which they can use on a future cruise. No victims. Yeah?

[drew69]

6 hours ago, Waquoit said:

If only all victims of a scam were so easy. The vacation that one did not receive has value. It has value long after the trip has been concluded. To not get what you paid for, not get a refund is not a sunk cost.  It's larceny.

They were offered a refund and refused it and decided to roll the dice with a FCC.  Their choice and their loss.  Not larceny.

[dmdiver]

We are in the same boat.  Our 2020 cruise was cancelled & we took the 125% FCC, never dreaming that this pandemic would still be going on.  So, our 2021 cruise was cancelled.  We are to the point that we would have been happy this time to just get our original amount refunded.  However, that's not how the FCC works, even on a double cancellation.  So, we rebooked for 2022 & just hope that this pandemic is over & NCL is still in business.  My current beef is with American Airlines, who says they will issue a credit, but it's only good until the end of this year.  That's annoying because I don't have anyplace to go this year.  Anyway, I suppose we'll figure something out.

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/18/2021 at 5:02 PM, Trimone said:

It’s not down to the cruise line, it’s down to the CC company if they believe and you can prove the credits are unacceptable because a year as passed, you have attempted to rebook, and cancelled again, the credits are not fit for purpose, in the eyes of section 75 sale of goods act, the company isn’t providing what it sold you, covid or no covid.

Except that the terms of thw FCC included explicit language that stated that FCC does not have cash value, it will never have cash value, and it could never be redeemed for cash EVEN IN THE EVENT OF FUTURE CANCELLATIONS OR EXPIRATION.  We all agreed to that when we made the choice to take FCC.  There is noting even close to "unacceptable" about being held to what we all agreed to.  Requesting a charge back when one is not warranted is attempted fraud.  You probably won't get charged but that does not change the fact that it indeed is attempted fraud.

 

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/23/2021 at 2:20 AM, sanger727 said:

 

While I generally agree with this, over the course of a year  that could understandably change. You could have had a good job with insurance benefits and a 6 month emergency fund in the bank in Jan 2020. Laid off in March. Filed for unemployment for as long as you could. Lost insurance benefits so have to start paying out of pocket. By Jan of this year you could still have no job, no insurance, and no money in the bank. Then yes, getting the cruise money back could be the difference between paying your mortgage this month or not. 

And we should have all taken that possibility into consideration when making out CHOICE to accept FCC.

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/24/2021 at 11:59 AM, Waquoit said:

And NCL cancelled the next cruise on them. They should get that money back. NCL has had their money for over a year and has provided nothing. It's criminal.

They do not have "MONEY" any more once they make the choice to take FCC.  That was clearly explained when the option was given and accpted.

[MoCruiseFan]

On 2/24/2021 at 12:03 PM, Waquoit said:

If only all victims of a scam were so easy. The vacation that one did not receive has value. It has value long after the trip has been concluded. To not get what you paid for, not get a refund is not a sunk cost.  It's larceny.

LOL  Good joke.

[Trimone]

3 hours ago, MoCruiseFan said:

Except that the terms of thw FCC included explicit language that stated that FCC does not have cash value, it will never have cash value, and it could never be redeemed for cash EVEN IN THE EVENT OF FUTURE CANCELLATIONS OR EXPIRATION.  We all agreed to that when we made the choice to take FCC.  There is noting even close to "unacceptable" about being held to what we all agreed to.  Requesting a charge back when one is not warranted is attempted fraud.  You probably won't get charged but that does not change the fact that it indeed is attempted fraud.

 

Well, bearing in mind it’s unlikely that cruises will not commence out of the states until this time next year, I don’t believe the FCC will be ever used, I think people will lose out, and you state that going to your credit card company and requesting section 75 of the credit consumer act attempted fraud? That’s what the act is for, to protect the consumers money.

How can it be lawful for a European to purchase a ticket, have the cruise cancelled twice at the last minute always, then expect to keep them as customers, the cruise company is completing your requirements regardless of covid.

Imagine the atmosphere on a ship with people just moaning about FCC! It will be like cruise critic.

[BoozinCroozin]

On 2/24/2021 at 11:59 AM, Waquoit said:

And NCL cancelled the next cruise on them. They should get that money back. NCL has had their money for over a year and has provided nothing. It's criminal.

It doesn't matter how many cruises are/were canceled. The issue is they paid money for Cruise #1. Once Cruise #1 was canceled, they had a choice of a cash refund or a FCC. The FCC came with the stipulation that any refund would be in the form of a FCC. They knowingly made that decision. Fast-forward to whatever cruise number they are on now that may or may not get canceled, their only option is FCC. The chance to be refunded money was gone on the decision they made for Cruise #1. I understand what they are going through. I have been in a similar situation. Eventually I will get to cruise and that money in the FCC will be like a "free" cruise. I also have cash from the last canceled cruise. It is sitting in a different account to pay for it when we can go.

[DCGuy64]

7 hours ago, Trimone said:

Well, bearing in mind it’s unlikely that cruises will not commence out of the states until this time next year, I don’t believe the FCC will be ever used

Do you have any data to support the two statements above? Your argument would have more weight if there were data to support it. I personally think cruises WILL commence out of the States before March 1, 2022 (i.e. "this time next year," to use your prediction), and therefore I don't think the FCC is in jeopardy at all. I base my view on the data regarding vaccinations and industry data suggesting that the cruise line industry is working behind the scenes with the CDC to get test cruises going soon. I think we'll see cruises by fall in the US (and I'm talking about large ships, not the < 250 capacity not covered by the No Sail Order).

[Trimone]

11 minutes ago, DCGuy64 said:

Do you have any data to support the two statements above? Your argument would have more weight if there were data to support it. I personally think cruises WILL commence out of the States before March 1, 2022 (i.e. "this time next year," to use your prediction), and therefore I don't think the FCC is in jeopardy at all. I base my view on the data regarding vaccinations and industry data suggesting that the cruise line industry is working behind the scenes with the CDC to get test cruises going soon. I think we'll see cruises by fall in the US (and I'm talking about large ships, not the < 250 capacity not covered by the No Sail Order).

What the cruise industry can’t work around is for example, you need a technician to travel to mainland Europe, say Italy, first he needs testing, then has to isolate for two weeks, do the job 1 day, travel home and isolate again for two weeks. This is what all maritime contractors are doing, the smallest job takes weeks. Talk to the contractors, they don’t know what’s going on about restarting and they talk to the cruise companies every week.

 

[DCGuy64]

13 minutes ago, Trimone said:

What the cruise industry can’t work around is for example, you need a technician to travel to mainland Europe, say Italy, first he needs testing, then has to isolate for two weeks, do the job 1 day, travel home and isolate again for two weeks. This is what all maritime contractors are doing, the smallest job takes weeks. Talk to the contractors, they don’t know what’s going on about restarting and they talk to the cruise companies every week.

 

Hmm, well then how is is that MSC has been sailing the Grandiosa since last August?

Incidentally, MSC and Costa are restarting more cruise ships over the course of the next month. I also read this morning that Sardinia has just become the first Italian state (technically they're called "regioni" in Italian) to reach "white zone" status due to the decline in new cases.

 

https://www.startribune.com/the-latest-first-us-j-j-vaccine-doses-shipping-sunday-night/600028604/

Excerpted from the above article:

 

ROME — While new COVID-19 cases surge in Italy's north, the island of Sardinia has earned coveted ''white zone'' status, allowing for evening dining and drinking at restaurants and cafes and the reopening after months of closure of gyms, cinemas and theaters.

Earlier this year, the Italian government added ''white zone'' status to its color-coded system of restrictions on businesses and schools, with "red zone" designation carrying the strictest measures.

Starting on Monday, the region of Sardinia, with an incidence of fewer than 50 cases per 100,000 residents, will be able to allow the most liberties since a second wave of coronavirus infections last fall prompted the government to tighten restrictions nationwide after easing them during summer.

The Health Ministry report covering the third week of February shows nationwide incidence was 145 cases per 100,000 inhabitants, and several regions had far higher incidence.

The Mediterranean island of Sardinia is a popular vacation destination. Last summer, crowds at seaside discos and clubs there were cited as a factor in the climb in an explosion of cases in Italy in the last months of 2020.

[Trimone]

Nobody but Italian Nationals can travel on those ships

[DCGuy64]

4 minutes ago, Trimone said:

Nobody but Italian Nationals can travel on those ships

And?

 

[dmdiver]

We were able to get AA to issue a cruise certificate with a later expiration date.  We explained to them that we were ready to rebook our flights, but since their schedule didn't go out that far, we were unable to do so. So, we should be able to rebook our flights when they are available - now just hoping that the fares don't increase too much.  

[Waquoit]

On 2/24/2021 at 12:16 PM, DCGuy64 said:

Exactly. I used to work at a large bookstore. People who returned books would sometimes take a store credit and then later attempt to get cash. Too late. (and some of them hadn't even bought the books in the first place, they were Christmas presents so it wasn't even their own money). Now THAT'S criminal.

 

At least those people could spend their store credit, the store hadn't closed. Crusing is the only industry where they rip you off and have their customers rub it in online. 

[DCGuy64]

18 minutes ago, Waquoit said:

At least those people could spend their store credit, the store hadn't closed. Crusing is the only industry where they rip you off and have their customers rub it in online. 

What cruise lines have closed that I didn't hear about recently? Certainly not NCL, the basis of this thread.