Good News / Good Progress towards back to Cruising....

[markeb]

Just now, upwarduk said:

I just pressed on the emboldened section!

 

Gotcha. That makes sense, in a bizarre sort of way...

 

Didn't think you'd intentionally done anything to misquote me, but that was kind of weird! The forum software has some interesting "features" at times!

[LGW59]

On 2/22/2021 at 4:42 PM, Orator said:

Fain said that the largest number of bookings are people over 65. Could Celebrity at this time be focusing on the wrong group of potential cruisers by going after a younger demographic and seemly abandoned their older and most loyal passengers?

They have abandoned no one, they will happily take the $ of anyone who books

[hcat]

Some  of Celebs past marketing and entertainment choices seem to result from someone's  mid-life crisis ,  a desire to be hippies again , remake cruises into Vegas,  Cirque deSoleil , EDENists  interactive, or naughty nightclubs. Or  at times living in the in the wierd world of the Paltow People,

 

All mostly failures..They should just  focus on people who love to cruise, enjoy fine dining ( formal or casual),  meeting other cruisers,  good music and shows and fun activities...no hairy legs contests!  Has been a winning formula for many yrs!

[sfaaa]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:32 AM, TeeRick said:

The older group of customers - at least for now- is also the vaccinated group of customers.  Why read anything more into this.  Not marketing or change of focus.  Just reality.

Plus retired folks have lot of disposable cash to spend and free time to go cruising year round. They are the perfect demographic market segment  to go after. 

[LGW59]

21 hours ago, hcat said:

Some  of Celebs past marketing and entertainment choices seem to result from someone's  mid-life crisis ,  a desire to be hippies again , remake cruises into Vegas,  Cirque deSoleil , EDENists  interactive, or naughty nightclubs. Or  at times living in the in the wierd world of the Paltow People,

 

All mostly failures..They should just  focus on people who love to cruise, enjoy fine dining ( formal or casual),  meeting other cruisers,  good music and shows and fun activities...no hairy legs contests!  Has been a winning formula for many yrs!

focus on people who love to cruise, enjoy fine dining ( formal or casual).  While not trying to introduce a new market segment into cruising??  What they are doing makes very smart business sense, people who love cruising are not going anywhere, despite what they say.  Without COVID, APEX and EDGE would have been sailing at full or near full capacity, as will the revolutionized ships, IMO.

[UnorigionalName]

22 hours ago, hcat said:

Some  of Celebs past marketing and entertainment choices seem to result from someone's  mid-life crisis ,  a desire to be hippies again , remake cruises into Vegas,  Cirque deSoleil , EDENists  interactive, or naughty nightclubs. Or  at times living in the in the wierd world of the Paltow People,

 

All mostly failures..They should just  focus on people who love to cruise, enjoy fine dining ( formal or casual),  meeting other cruisers,  good music and shows and fun activities...no hairy legs contests!  Has been a winning formula for many yrs!

 

before covid their profits were soaring...  pretty sure they felt like their marketing and market positioning were smashing successes.

 

edit: I feel like this forum is kind of an echo chamber.  The people who are responding to the new messaging do not hang out on random internet forums.

Edited February 24, 2021 by UnorigionalName

[ChucktownSteve]

44 minutes ago, LGW59 said:

focus on people who love to cruise, enjoy fine dining ( formal or casual).  While not trying to introduce a new market segment into cruising??  What they are doing makes very smart business sense, people who love cruising are not going anywhere, despite what they say.  Without COVID, APEX and EDGE would have been sailing at full or near full capacity, as will the revolutionized ships, IMO.

 

Just because you're an XX loyalist doesn't mean people who love cruising will put up with XX.  Since XX started their tactics I, and probably a lot more people than you suspect, have been booking with other cruise lines besides XX. 

 

AI has had a huge impact on people who don't want to be forced to pay for liquor when they don't drink or internet they won't use.

 

While we may include XX in future consideration, I know it will be not before 2023 for me because I already have three Regent sailings that I booked within the last month that sail through early '23.

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[paulh84]

Celebrity - 'Always Included '- Drinks, Tips, WiFi

 

Princess - 'Best Sale Ever'...Gets Better! Drinks, WiFi, Gratuities, Specialty Dining, Stateroom Upgrade

 

Holland America - 'View & Veranda' Upgrade Event! Big Stateroom Upgrade, Beverage Package, 10% excursions, Free Specialty Dining and More.

 

NCL - 'The Big Deal!" Take 5. Open Bar, Specialty Dining, Excursion, WiFi and Kids 

 

MSC - Upgrade for OBC, Drinks Package, complimentary massage, and specialty dining 

 

Clearly the industry thinks people want a simplified approach. I would say Royal goes in the opposite direction with their endless bundles with constant price changes but apparently it works for them. I've never understood why people get so riled up about this. 1980's style cruising is done and over with.

 

 

 

[ChucktownSteve]

7 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

Celebrity - 'Always Included '- Drinks, Tips, WiFi

 

Princess - 'Best Sale Ever'...Gets Better! Drinks, WiFi, Gratuities, Specialty Dining, Stateroom Upgrade

 

Holland America - 'View & Veranda' Upgrade Event! Big Stateroom Upgrade, Beverage Package, 10% excursions, Free Specialty Dining and More.

 

NCL - 'The Big Deal!" Take 5. Open Bar, Specialty Dining, Excursion, WiFi and Kids 

 

MSC - Upgrade for OBC, Drinks Package, complimentary massage, and specialty dining 

 

Clearly the industry thinks people want a simplified approach. I would say Royal goes in the opposite direction with their endless bundles with constant price changes but apparently it works for them. I've never understood why people get so riled up about this. 1980's style cruising is done and over with.

 

Yes but the smart consumer understands that most of the promotions are gimmicks whereby the cruise line raises the price to include them.  So the value proposition is what is the bottom line cost for the cabin with the "perks" included?  Then whether the cruiser wants the perks that are included for the higher price.

 

 

Edited February 24, 2021 by ChucktownSteve

[NavyCruiser]

4 minutes ago, paulh84 said:

Celebrity - 'Always Included '- Drinks, Tips, WiFi

 

Princess - 'Best Sale Ever'...Gets Better! Drinks, WiFi, Gratuities, Specialty Dining, Stateroom Upgrade

 

Holland America - 'View & Veranda' Upgrade Event! Big Stateroom Upgrade, Beverage Package, 10% excursions, Free Specialty Dining and More.

 

NCL - 'The Big Deal!" Take 5. Open Bar, Specialty Dining, Excursion, WiFi and Kids 

 

MSC - Upgrade for OBC, Drinks Package, complimentary massage, and specialty dining 

 

Clearly the industry thinks people want a simplified approach. I would say Royal goes in the opposite direction with their endless bundles with constant price changes but apparently it works for them. I've never understood why people get so riled up about this. 1980's style cruising is done and over with.

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

So after 30+ cruises with mainline cruise lines, my wife & I now gravitate to more upscale & more inclusive lines after experiencing our first few European river cruises.  Although these all inclusive packages aren't cheap, we think they're a good value.  Thus, we've just booked our very first Celebrity cruise , & coming back to Holland Amer after 25 yrs...

[deliver42]

We booed princess for Alaska, in Sept.2022 using their best sail ever. Depending on the cruise line, Princess was between $800.00 and $1700.00 less. All with the same perks, except RCCL.

[Oceangoer2]

On 2/22/2021 at 7:40 PM, ECCruise said:

That is called CYA with both stockholders and SEC. 

Or...maybe a stab at transparency and positivity?

[Oceangoer2]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:26 PM, cruiserchuck said:

 

It will be the authorities, not Celebrity, that says go.  I doubt there will be any Celebrity sailings any time soon.  If cases drop enough to make Celebrity think it can start, I believe the authorities will still block them, unless/until the virus has been totally wiped out.  No country wants another Diamond/Grand Princess incident on their hands.  

"Totally Wiped Out"  is too definite a statement....and probably not possible, no more than other virus'  eradication.  Life HAS to go on...and will.  But this virus is far reaching and IMO, how soon depends on major world vaccination programs and a willingness by most of us to follow medical science recommendations.  Much has been achieved in a very short time...the return will not take as long as some of us think it will....or am I being too positive?

[grandgeezer]

1 hour ago, Oceangoer2 said:

"Totally Wiped Out"  is too definite a statement....and probably not possible, no more than other virus'  eradication.  Life HAS to go on...and will.  But this virus is far reaching and IMO, how soon depends on major world vaccination programs and a willingness by most of us to follow medical science recommendations.  Much has been achieved in a very short time...the return will not take as long as some of us think it will....or am I being too positive?

There's been posts like this for over eleven months, define being over positive.

[Oceangoer2]

3 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

There's been posts like this for over eleven months, define being over positive.

My post DEFINED my comment....and I said "am I being too positive", not 'overly positive'.  FHS...other world plagues lasted years, not eleven months.  Our scientific knowledge has definitely improved at 'warp speed'.  A vaccine in the works in a year....vaccinations occurring all over the world.  We'll get there faster than they did during the bubonic and other plagues if we do our part and comply with medical recommendations.  Even in the middle ages, those that wanted to live stayed apart from others and some even wore masks.  Did you really think this would all be taken care of in a nano-second time frame?  We'll get there...we'll sail ...stay positive.

[Oceangoer2]

On 2/22/2021 at 8:26 PM, cruiserchuck said:

 

It will be the authorities, not Celebrity, that says go.  I doubt there will be any Celebrity sailings any time soon.  If cases drop enough to make Celebrity think it can start, I believe the authorities will still block them, unless/until the virus has been totally wiped out.  No country wants another Diamond/Grand Princess incident on their hands.  

I agree....the authorities will make these decisions, not pressure from us who want to get back to our 'somewhat normal' life.  I don't think we'll sail sooner than it's safe to do so.  And none of us want to be on a ship trapped as in the Princess scenarios.  Total C19 wipe-out isn't going to happen according to what the 'experts' are saying 'now'.  Apparently we'll live with it as we do the seasonal flu, with booster shots yearly and the numbers low enough to handle by our doctors and hospitals.  We just have to get there and I'll continue to 'try to be positive' (see...I changed my wording with your influence...LOL).

[jagoffee]

38 minutes ago, Oceangoer2 said:

I agree....the authorities will make these decisions, not pressure from us who want to get back to our 'somewhat normal' life.  I don't think we'll sail sooner than it's safe to do so.  And none of us want to be on a ship trapped as in the Princess scenarios.  Total C19 wipe-out isn't going to happen according to what the 'experts' are saying 'now'.  Apparently we'll live with it as we do the seasonal flu, with booster shots yearly and the numbers low enough to handle by our doctors and hospitals.  We just have to get there and I'll continue to 'try to be positive' (see...I changed my wording with your influence...LOL).

The definition of safe is difficult to determine.  I suppose one could say that if the deaths and hospitalization from Covid are approximately the same as the historical average for the regular flu, it would be considered safe.  A long way from being eradicated.  

 

[gold1953]

21 hours ago, sfaaa said:

Plus retired folks have lot of disposable cash to spend and free time to go cruising year round. They are the perfect demographic market segment  to go after. 

This is true and the people who are pensioned and not hurt financially by covid. We will be the ones travelling!~!

[highway180]

On 2/23/2021 at 6:03 PM, hcat said:

..no hairy legs contests! 

I'm sorry that you never won

LOL

[highway180]

On 2/24/2021 at 4:26 PM, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Just because you're an XX loyalist doesn't mean people who love cruising will put up with XX.  Since XX started their tactics I, and probably a lot more people than you suspect, have been booking with other cruise lines besides XX. 

 

AI has had a huge impact on people who don't want to be forced to pay for liquor when they don't drink or internet they won't use.

 

While we may include XX in future consideration, I know it will be not before 2023 for me because I already have three Regent sailings that I booked within the last month that sail through early '23.

 

On either cruise, be it All Included...or All Inclusive....you will still be paying for liquor you wont drink.

It's the end all in price that matters most. We all pay for things we won't use or on a cruise.

 

[grandgeezer]

35 minutes ago, highway180 said:

On either cruise, be it All Included...or All Inclusive....you will still be paying for liquor you wont drink.

It's the end all in price that matters most. We all pay for things we won't use or on a cruise.

 

Alcohol and wifi are not needed to have an enjoyable cruise. Why stop there?  Add spa treatments, cigarettes, bingo, specialty restaurants, etc., and jack the prices up even more.

[cangelmd]

On 2/24/2021 at 3:26 PM, ChucktownSteve said:

 

Just because you're an XX loyalist doesn't mean people who love cruising will put up with XX.  Since XX started their tactics I, and probably a lot more people than you suspect, have been booking with other cruise lines besides XX. 

 

AI has had a huge impact on people who don't want to be forced to pay for liquor when they don't drink or internet they won't use.

 

While we may include XX in future consideration, I know it will be not before 2023 for me because I already have three Regent sailings that I booked within the last month that sail through early '23.

 

If you book a more inclusive cruise (and I thought Regent was more all inclusive), aren’t the non-drinkers still paying for the drinkers?

 

On 2/24/2021 at 4:16 PM, NavyCruiser said:

 

Agreed.

So after 30+ cruises with mainline cruise lines, my wife & I now gravitate to more upscale & more inclusive lines after experiencing our first few European river cruises.  Although these all inclusive packages aren't cheap, we think they're a good value.  Thus, we've just booked our very first Celebrity cruise , & coming back to Holland Amer after 25 yrs...

To both you and Steve - one thing that has really held me back from the more all inclusive lines is the shore excursions. We were in France on a land trip a couple of years ago, visited Giverny, the hordes of cruisers were just awful. Most were from Viking (not that other lines were different) and the people were basically lined up and shuffled around the garden paths or pushed in wheelchairs - much like a busy ride line in a theme park. Not at all my idea of an upscale experience and not something that I would want to pay extra for as one of the all inclusive perks. I understand that Covid may change t(is for a while in the short run. But still!

What is your experiences with the included shore excursions 

[Orator]

3 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

If you book a more inclusive cruise (and I thought Regent was more all inclusive), aren’t the non-drinkers still paying for the drinkers?

 

To both you and Steve - one thing that has really held me back from the more all inclusive lines is the shore excursions. We were in France on a land trip a couple of years ago, visited Giverny, the hordes of cruisers were just awful. Most were from Viking (not that other lines were different) and the people were basically lined up and shuffled around the garden paths or pushed in wheelchairs - much like a busy ride line in a theme park. Not at all my idea of an upscale experience and not something that I would want to pay extra for as one of the all inclusive perks. I understand that Covid may change t(is for a while in the short run. But still!

What is your experiences with the included shore excursions 

Not all luxury lines include excursions. We toured independently on our Crystal cruises as their tours are very expensive compared to Celebrity.  Excursions are included on most river cruises. 

[OnTheJourney]

29 minutes ago, cangelmd said:

Most were from Viking

Somewhat in defense of this and a few other thoughts:  Viking offers an included ("free") excursion at every port. Most of them are your basic bus-type sightseeing variety. Other excursions you pay for, just like other lines. As a Viking customer, I can say it is a very nice experience and I'm anxious to get back on one of their ships. Some things I really enjoyed in particular: the smaller size of the ship and far fewer passengers, no casino, no photographers pestering you for pics during the entire voyage, no kids, not having to reserve a dining time, no waiting in lines, no art auctions, beer/wine included with lunch/dinner (though now X is starting to do this as well), free wifi, no charge for specialty restaurants, no inside staterooms, no formal nights, and so on. It was a quiet and relaxing experience (well...until it wasn't!..Google Viking Sky incident March 23, 2019). Lots of small, quiet nook areas on the ship to just sit and read. ALL that being said, I wouldn't say it is a "luxury" experience in terms of the appearance of the ship itself. The Scandinavian influence is very modest in overall styling, so there is nothing anywhere near as impressive as, say, the centrums in the RCL ships. Also, TINSTAAFL, and so I've always been amused at things being listed as "free" when, in reality, you've already paid for it by the higher cost of the cruise. I also like that ALL the Viking ocean and river ships are (at least up till now) built to exactly the same design and specifications. It's always sort of frustrating to have to take a few days just to get fully acquainted with where everything is on a ship that I haven't sailed on previously, and yet is part of the same line. So Viking took what they did with their river ships and applied it to their ocean vessels. I found the clientele to be - basically speaking - very well traveled, interesting to talk with, and primarily destination-oriented as opposed to taking a cruise for the sake of the parties / games, etc. that are often part of the daily schedules  (not intending to take anything away from all that - just pointing out a difference). It was my first smaller ship cruising experience and definitely had a different 'feel' to it. 

 

As to "older people being pushed in wheelchairs"or "shuffled along", etc....I don't think it's at all fair to point a finger solely at Viking for this. On all ships I see 'older' people still wanting to go along on excursions with their walkers who probably really are no longer fully up to it. The result is that it often slows down the entire group. And, yeah, I'll probably be one of them some day 🤔. 

 

I deem it very likely that Viking does attract, generally speaking, an older clientele compared to some of the larger lines - although never actually researched this. But, all this is probably moot since I can foresee the overall excursion experience possibly morphing into something rather different than what we've all been used to. 

Edited February 26, 2021 by OnTheJourney

[NavyCruiser]

10 minutes ago, Orator said:

Not all luxury lines include excursions. We toured independently on our Crystal cruises as their tours are very expensive compared to Celebrity.  Excursions are included on most river cruises. 

 

That's what we like about river cruises, it's the included morning stroll / narrated walking tours in each port stop.   Beer & wine included with lunch & dinner are also a good basic perk.  More extensive excursions & alcohol pkg at extra cost are at each cruiser's discretion.  So we think that's a good balance between some all-inclusiveness value without breaking the bank...