MSC and Covid on board ships

[hcat]

Thank you..

That's what I was referring to but could not re copy .

 

To me this paragraph places a  big burden of risk on the passenger who has followed all the  protocols.  One could be stranded  somewhere without access to medical care &  without any means to get home, esp if ill.  Not sure if insurance will be covering this type of unfortunate situation  

 

Hoping to cruise in 2022 but not sure what lies ahead,

Edited March 3, 2021 by hcat

[deadzone1003]

2 hours ago, hcat said:

Thank you..

That's what I was referring to but could not re copy .

 

To me this paragraph places a  big burden of risk on the passenger who has followed all the  protocols.  One could be stranded  somewhere without access to medical care &  without any means to get home, esp if ill.  Not sure if insurance will be covering this type of unfortunate situation  

 

Hoping to cruise in 2022 but not sure what lies ahead,

It could be.  That's the worst that can happen to you.  It's not what will happen to you if you got covid from someone else on the ship.  It's the worst that can happen to you.  There appears to be alot of latitude that Celebrity can take.  If they did this to a passenger who caught it from another passenger or crew memeber, it will not be good for their image.  

[hcat]

1 hour ago, deadzone1003 said:

It could be.  That's the worst that can happen to you.  It's not what will happen to you if you got covid from someone else on the ship.  It's the worst that can happen to you.  There appears to be alot of latitude that Celebrity can take.  If they did this to a passenger who caught it from another passenger or crew memeber, it will not be good for their image.  

True but the language is quite one sided as to cruise line's options,

Coincidentallym  we just teceived an ad for Sandals Barbados... renovated and re opening in July, I believe..  They will pay for guest travel  insurance..$ 100,000 medicam and $100,000 evac coverage.  That's a huge incentive!

[deadzone1003]

It may be, but it is more about lawyers covering the rear end of Celebrity.  MSC may be a baseline in the how they will treat you.  Heck, I don't think they want it to be known that MSC treats their passengers with more dignity and class than Azamara.  This is more of a case where it sounds worst than than what it will be.  This is more of a way for Celebrity to punish people who may not adhere to their protocols without legal repercussions.  Let's see how it plays out.   

[hcat]

Push comes to shove..the contract prevails.

 

Seems folks were pleased with the way MSC handled this but the cruise experIence as described did not make me excited to cruise just yet!

[jelayne]

The cruise contract, as are most contracts, have always been one sided in the favor of the company.  
I just look back on the unfortunate illnesses (some very contagious), accidents and other health issues that occur on almost every cruise and from what we have seen  X has handled these situations professionally and compassionately, including leaving a bi-lingual crew member with passengers who had to leave the ship in a foreign country.  
So the contract doesn’t obligate them to anything, I believe they will take as best care as they can for those who did everything right and still had a problem.  Now if someone violates the rules (leaves a excursion in a port that is ships excursions only, forges documentation, refuses to follow mask, social distancing or other health or safety requirements) then if they are dropped at the next port so be it.  

[mayleeman]

My exerience with contract enforcement is that companies are usually perfectly willing to enforce the powers they are reserving.

 

They might do a better job of avoiding PR fallout (I have posted on this before) if they were to offer supplemental travel insurance covering pax who complied but tested positive. 

 

I wonder how the ports where they try to dump positive cases without proper travel arrangements will react?

[wrk2cruise]

1 hour ago, mayleeman said:

They might do a better job of avoiding PR fallout (I have posted on this before) if they were to offer supplemental travel insurance covering pax who complied but tested positive. 

 

The RCL Singapore sailings are probably a close model to what Celebrity will do on startup.  There if you book by 4/30/2021 they are offering the following.  I think originally this had a $$ cap on it but doesn't appear to now.  Of course the home travel costs are probably bounded by only locals allowed to book.

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/sgp/en/royal-promise

 

• In the event of COVID-19-related expenses, Royal Caribbean will cover onboard medical treatment, cost of any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you, your travel party, and any confirmed close contacts

[TeeRick]

18 hours ago, neilrr said:

Hi TeeRick - Saw your post here...  Amen...We are of the same mind.  We are in process of getting vaccinated and we will wait until the crew, passengers and people in the Ports are on the road to vaccination too.

 

It is far too risky and not the least a vacation we would consider -- wearing masks all the time.  Also, I wouldn't even think of Europe which we love.  The first cruise will probably be a 7 day Caribbean cruise out of Port Everglades where we live -- to test the waters.  Most of the cruise lines are looking at 2022 anyway.  I think 2021 is pretty much has been written off. I'm glad we all got our money back on the Iceland cruise last year.  We have 3K tied up (from another cruise) in Celebrity FCC's which hopefully we will use in 2022..  Take care and stay safe..😊 

Hi Neil.  Glad you are getting vaccinated.  Are they in general vaccinating all teachers in FL? They just announced here in PA that they plan to vaccinate all teachers and school staff with the one-shot J&J vaccine starting next week.  

[phoenix_dream]

18 hours ago, cruisinsusin said:

We love the Celebrity product and are hanging in there with 3 future cruises booked but unfortunately that is not the new contract - I have copied section 4f below- even if you follow the rules, if you test positive or are suspected by the crew of being positive, at their discretion, you can be quarantined, disembarked or not allowed back on after a shore excursion. Not sure we are going to be comfortable traveling to distant ports with that provision- will have to monitor what transpires once cruising returns.

 

Per the Celebrity Cruise Ticket contract updated 10/20/2020, section 4f:

f. Passenger Testing Positive for COVID-19 During Cruise. Passenger understands and agrees that if, after boarding, and even if Passenger has fully complied with all COVID-19 Policies and Procedures, Passenger tests positive for COVID-19 or exhibits signs or symptoms of COVID-19, Carrier may disembark, refuse re-boarding after a shore excursion, or quarantine Passenger as well as members of Passenger’s travelling party, or take other steps which Carrier determines, in its sole discretion, are necessary under the circumstances to protect the health and well-being of others. Under these circumstances, any such Passenger with a known or suspected case of infection with COVID-19 who is disembarked, refused re-boarding, or quarantined shall be entitled to a prorated refund or future cruise credit for the unused portion of the Cruise Fare. For further details, refer to Carrier’s refund and cancellation policy at www.celebritycruises.com. Each such Passenger is responsible for all other related costs and fines, including without limitation travel expenses. Under no circumstances shall Carrier be liable to any such Passenger for any costs, damages or expenses whatsoever incurred by any Passenger. 

I had not realized they had made this change, thanks for posting.  This is absolutely insane and completely unacceptable.  The only positive side for me is that I don't think the CDC will allow any cruises out of the US with this type of handling - at least that is what it seems from their current standards.  

[neilrr]

44 minutes ago, TeeRick said:

Hi Neil.  Glad you are getting vaccinated.  Are they in general vaccinating all teachers in FL? They just announced here in PA that they plan to vaccinate all teachers and school staff with the one-shot J&J vaccine starting next week.  

Hi there... They are vaccinating school personnel that are 50 and over here in FL. I have submitted information to the state and local jurisdictions - still waiting to hear something but it is moving along.  The District said they are coming up with a "plan" for vaccinations and we would hear from them shortly.  Jerry finally got his first shot and second shot is scheduled. I also put in for the sabbatical for next year.  I have had enough fun teaching in a mask and on-line for a year and one half... Take care and stay safe.  Did you see the article on all of the tremors in Iceland ???

[deadzone1003]

13 hours ago, jelayne said:

The cruise contract, as are most contracts, have always been one sided in the favor of the company.  
I just look back on the unfortunate illnesses (some very contagious), accidents and other health issues that occur on almost every cruise and from what we have seen  X has handled these situations professionally and compassionately, including leaving a bi-lingual crew member with passengers who had to leave the ship in a foreign country.  
So the contract doesn’t obligate them to anything, I believe they will take as best care as they can for those who did everything right and still had a problem.  Now if someone violates the rules (leaves a excursion in a port that is ships excursions only, forges documentation, refuses to follow mask, social distancing or other health or safety requirements) then if they are dropped at the next port so be it.  

Not so easy to dump your sick passengers in a port where host country don't want sick people visiting their country.  Easy way for a cruise line to be banned from ever entering their country.  This could be a way where the cruise line can put sick passengers ashore to pre-arranged medical facilities without the passenger's permission.  The PR would be too horrendous for everyone.  I'm not supporting Celebrity, just saying Celebrity may have tried to cover their rear end a little too much and left a big opening.  Just make a big stink about it to Celebrity to force them to clarify.

[jelayne]

Has anyone seen the contract from any of the other cruise lines, e.g. Princess, HAL, NCL?  Wonder is theirs are the same.

[hcat]

38 minutes ago, neilrr said:

Hi there... They are vaccinating school personnel that are 50 and over here in FL. I have submitted information to the state and local jurisdictions - still waiting to hear something but it is moving along.  The District said they are coming up with a "plan" for vaccinations and we would hear from them shortly.  Jerry finally got his first shot and second shot is scheduled. I also put in for the sabbatical for next year.  I have had enough fun teaching in a mask and on-line for a year and one half... Take care and stay safe.  Did you see the article on all of the tremors in Iceland ???

Heard  yesterday that CVS  is doing their own thing vis a vis  Fl teachers and age qualification.    Following Fed rather than State guidelines. Anyone with an interest would have to do more research..or call CVS ( goid luck with that!)

[hcat]

2 hours ago, wrk2cruise said:

 

The RCL Singapore sailings are probably a close model to what Celebrity will do on startup.  There if you book by 4/30/2021 they are offering the following.  I think originally this had a $$ cap on it but doesn't appear to now.  Of course the home travel costs are probably bounded by only locals allowed to book.

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/sgp/en/royal-promise

 

• In the event of COVID-19-related expenses, Royal Caribbean will cover onboard medical treatment, cost of any required land-based quarantine, and travel home for you, your travel party, and any confirmed close contacts

Is that the current pledge..?

seems to be in conflict with the  contract language posted ????

 

We are def booking Sandals Barbados,,Someone posted really great photos here on CC a few weeks ago,  and they are offering a great deal plus Covid  trvl ins included! We love Barbados and have enjoyed Sandals  elsewhere in the past..esp at suite or concierge level.  Not giving up on cruises but will  wait and see

Edited March 4, 2021 by hcat

[paulh84]

23 minutes ago, jelayne said:

Has anyone seen the contract from any of the other cruise lines, e.g. Princess, HAL, NCL?  Wonder is theirs are the same.

 

This type of language is not uncommon at all and has already been there to some degree. 

 

Princess says (last updated February 2020):

 

4. RIGHT TO REFUSE BOOKING AND PASSAGE, CANCEL RESERVATION; CONFINE YOU TO STATEROOM OR DISEMBARK YOU.

Carrier reserves the right to refuse booking of passage on a Cruise to any person or to cancel Your existing Cruise reservation for any lawful reason and regardless of a guest’s Captain Circle loyalty level or existing benefits. Any person(s) refused booking or passage in advance of the scheduled sailing by Carrier will be given a refund of their Cruise Fare. Captain Circle points have no cash value and therefore are not redeemable for cash. Carrier may without liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit, except as provided herein, disembark or refuse to embark You, confine You in a stateroom, quarantine You, restrain You, change Your accommodations or disembark You at any time if, in the sole opinion of Carrier, the Captain or any doctor, You or any minor or other person in Your care during the Cruise are unfit for any reason for the Cruise, or Your presence might be detrimental to Your health, comfort or safety or that of any other person, or in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason. Carrier reserves the right to request a letter from Your physician attesting to Your fitness to travel, but by requesting such letter does not waive its right to disembark or refuse to embark You as set forth in this Section. Except as otherwise provided, if You are required to remain on board the Ship or elsewhere, due to injury, illness, or disability, or due to action of any government or authority, or for any other reason not the fault of Carrier, You must pay or reimburse Carrier for all resulting costs and expenses including for food, transportation, accommodation, medical and/or repatriation services for You and/or those accompanying You. If You become unfit to travel for any reason during the Cruise and/or You disembark early, or if You are refused passage, or Your reservation is cancelled if You book a cruise after Carrier has advised You that You are no longer allowed to sail, Carrier shall not be liable for any refund, payment, compensation, or credit of any kind.

Edited March 4, 2021 by paulh84

[deadzone1003]

4 minutes ago, hcat said:

Heard  yesterday that CVS  is doing their own thing vis a vis  Fl teachers and age qualification.    Following Fed rather than State guidelines. Anyone with an interest would have to do more research..or call CVS ( goid luck with that!)

Unless they struck a deal with each and every state where they are distributing the vaccine, they would be technically in violation of each State's law.  However, once we start into Phase II, I don't think any State would care except for States that are run by control freaks.    

[highway180]

20 hours ago, hcat said:

Heard  yesterday that CVS  is doing their own thing vis a vis  Fl teachers and age qualification.    Following Fed rather than State guidelines. Anyone with an interest would have to do more research..or call CVS ( goid luck with that!)

Actually CVS is doing a great job here. You must use their website, very easy, only a couple of clicks to check availability. Once in you schedule both shots at the same time. Availability is the issue, as appointments book up fast.

[ROYALBOY]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:17 PM, Miaminice said:

Well, while I think everyone of us wouldn’t want to experience it, it’s not much different to what’s happened when Noro was suspected, other medical emergencies occurred and so on... in other words, a chance anyone cruising always took.

If they can get COVID down to the same statistical chance as Noro...then I have no problem.

[hcat]

On 3/4/2021 at 11:22 AM, paulh84 said:

 

This type of language is not uncommon at all and has already been there to some degree. 

 

Princess says (last updated February 2020):

 

4. RIGHT TO REFUSE BOOKING AND PASSAGE, CANCEL RESERVATION; CONFINE YOU TO STATEROOM OR DISEMBARK YOU.

Carrier reserves the right to refuse booking of passage on a Cruise to any person or to cancel Your existing Cruise reservation for any lawful reason and regardless of a guest’s Captain Circle loyalty level or existing benefits. Any person(s) refused booking or passage in advance of the scheduled sailing by Carrier will be given a refund of their Cruise Fare. Captain Circle points have no cash value and therefore are not redeemable for cash. Carrier may without liability for refund, payment, compensation or credit, except as provided herein, disembark or refuse to embark You, confine You in a stateroom, quarantine You, restrain You, change Your accommodations or disembark You at any time if, in the sole opinion of Carrier, the Captain or any doctor, You or any minor or other person in Your care during the Cruise are unfit for any reason for the Cruise, or Your presence might be detrimental to Your health, comfort or safety or that of any other person, or in the judgment of the Captain is advisable for any reason. Carrier reserves the right to request a letter from Your physician attesting to Your fitness to travel, but by requesting such letter does not waive its right to disembark or refuse to embark You as set forth in this Section. Except as otherwise provided, if You are required to remain on board the Ship or elsewhere, due to injury, illness, or disability, or due to action of any government or authority, or for any other reason not the fault of Carrier, You must pay or reimburse Carrier for all resulting costs and expenses including for food, transportation, accommodation, medical and/or repatriation services for You and/or those accompanying You. If You become unfit to travel for any reason during the Cruise and/or You disembark early, or if You are refused passage, or Your reservation is cancelled if You book a cruise after Carrier has advised You that You are no longer allowed to sail, Carrier shall not be liable for any refund, payment, compensation, or credit of any kind.

So one sided, sounds almost like a lawyer did not write it!

[emmas gran]

The OP has just posted on MSC that there were only 1400 passengers on the ship that has 5000+ capacity

 

Liz

[Miaminice]

2 hours ago, emmas gran said:

The OP has just posted on MSC that there were only 1400 passengers on the ship that has 5000+ capacity

 

Liz

yes, all the ships sailing - TUI, MSC... - are sailing at maximum 60 % capacity. When we sailed on Mein Schiff 6 in October, which has a capacity of around 2400 pax, we were 922 passengers.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Miaminice

[neilrr]

On 3/4/2021 at 11:14 AM, hcat said:

Heard  yesterday that CVS  is doing their own thing vis a vis  Fl teachers and age qualification.    Following Fed rather than State guidelines. Anyone with an interest would have to do more research..or call CVS ( goid luck with that!)

Got my 1st Pfizer shot yesterday. They now made it available to teachers of any age here in FL after a lot of screaming... Forget about these smaller venues like Publix or CVS.  They do one person every 15 minutes.  It would take 10 years to get everyone vaccinated.😳 I registered for one of the big parks here in S. FL and it was very well organized.  They helped with some missing paperwork that I did not receive and were very helpful throughout and a big staff to move it all along.  They had 12 tents set up and a 15 minute "after the shot" waiting area with staff. The Federal and Local response has been great in the past forty days.  Glad that the stimulus passed too. This will help  individuals, State & Local Govs. doing all the heavy lifting, small businesses, hungry families, etc.. Nice to see some real leadership and legislation too... 

[hcat]

On 3/4/2021 at 11:14 AM, hcat said:

Heard  yesterday that CVS  is doing their own thing vis a vis  Fl teachers and age qualification.    Following Fed rather than State guidelines. Anyone with an interest would have to do more research..or call CVS ( goid luck with that!)

 

Announced today..Fla drugstores in the Fed Program will follow  Biden admin req to take teachers as a  first priority.  The feds are giving the vaccine so they set the rules. 

 

Other can sign up for the Fla state program which gives Seniors first priority. Most of those will be mass vaccination events or drive throughs.  Seniors waiting for  the local drug store may have to recconsider their plan, unless they are teachers.

 

Folk with comorbidities may get them at hosps,.. not sure how that works???

 

Eventually there will be many opportunities for all.

[hcat]

3 hours ago, neilrr said:

Got my 1st Pfizer shot yesterday. They now made it available to teachers of any age here in FL after a lot of screaming... Forget about these smaller venues like Publix or CVS.  They do one person every 15 minutes.  It would take 10 years to get everyone vaccinated.😳 I registered for one of the big parks here in S. FL and it was very well organized.  They helped with some missing paperwork that I did not receive and were very helpful throughout and a big staff to move it all along.  They had 12 tents set up and a 15 minute "after the shot" waiting area with staff. The Federal and Local response has been great in the past forty days.  Glad that the stimulus passed too. This will help  individuals, State & Local Govs. doing all the heavy lifting, small businesses, hungry families, etc.. Nice to see some real leadership and legislation too... 

Was  not aware of this change. Glad it worked for you

We preferred a non mass  vaccination  approach and were lucky to get our vaccines at a rural  Fl hosp by appointment..early on.  Dh has allergies and was well supervised medically, We both did well.