Viking Announced Resumption!

[Porcupine 52]

1 hour ago, Jim Avery said:

Calm down folks. Still a way off before any cruises start.  And how would someone even get to a Viking ship without vax when all the airlines are falling in line with requiring it?  Say you are starting a cruise in Greenwich.  England will not allow you in, as they did when I was a kid,  without it and testing.  It's coming.  I do believe Viking will require the vax.  But still, someone will get covid on some ship at some time.  We have to get over the panic and treat covid much like all the other serious illnesses there are.  If a passenger comes down with pneumonia I believe they quarantine them and treat them until they can be safely put ashore to return home.  Spanish Flu is still out there.  Bubonic plague is still out there as are so many other serious viruses, bacteria, fungi.  Quarantine and treat the ill and keep on truckin'.  

You are so right!!

[CCWineLover]

9 minutes ago, TayanaLorna said:

UK Only Viking Venus Cruise is the title of a forum board recently opened in Viking Ocean.  It contains the text of an email sent by Viking to its registered  UK cruisers.  The prices are listed per cabin level and it states that an included excursion as well as optional excursions will be offered in each port.  Sorry i am not good at putting in links or copying/pasteing in this here.

Here's the link.

 

[TayanaLorna]

19 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

Here's the link.

 

Thank you.

[TayanaLorna]

I really appreciate all the comments, opinions and expertise expressed here.  I am learning a lot and formulating what i will/will not accept regarding a vaccination requirement.  However, this thread has evolved into a vaccination requirement - yes or no forum - rather then a let's see what happens with the first Viking cruise.  I think this UK option is a Viking testing the waters, so to speak, cruise much like the US CDC requirement that cruise companies have test cruises prior to approval to sail in US waters.  In the US, they cannot having paying customers.  Apparently in the UK, that is not the case.  Two months is too short a time to organize a vaccination proof before sailing requirement.  So it makes sense that they will try to test their safety protocol without that added protection.  I will be closely watching these cruises.

[Porcupine 52]

FYI from my vaccine testing nurse today she said that if you have a LARGE glass of merlot wine before dinner on a cruise  it will increase your odd of not get the virus by 25% if you have been vaccinated....😀😇

[DGHOC]

I take it this is a joke Porcupine.

[Porcupine 52]

1 hour ago, DGHOC said:

I take it this is a joke Porcupine.

😀

[Mrs Miggins]

Wouldn't it be great though !

[Porcupine 52]

1 hour ago, Mrs Miggins said:

Wouldn't it be great though !

Well it may not hurt for sure....

[shank63]

16 hours ago, Porcupine 52 said:

FYI from my vaccine testing nurse today she said that if you have a LARGE glass of merlot wine before dinner on a cruise  it will increase your odd of not get the virus by 25% if you have been vaccinated....😀😇

I’ve been practicing that method for the past year, pre and post vac, and have not contracted the virus.  Not taking any chances, will continue.

[PasadenaDave]

On 3/17/2021 at 9:21 AM, Heidi13 said:

 

Having developed and written a new Level 2 - ISM  Safety Management System (SMS) manual/procedures for the Marine Operations (Deck) of my last company, a large Ro/Pax operation, I incorporated the latest risk management and human factors into all operational procedures.

 

Reducing the risk to zero (0%) in marine operations is both cost prohibitive and virtually impossible. Every operation/procedure was risk assessed and once the risks were identified, we determined risk mitigations, with a focus on a layered approach, using the analogy of the Swiss Cheese model. If each mitigation still has a risk, that is signified by a hole in the layer. The more layers, the less chance the holes will align, which represents an incident. Each operation had the risks reduced to "ALARP" - as low as reasonably possible.

 

With the Viking Health & Safety Plan, I saw a classic representation of a layered approach with multiple layers of protection - daily testing, social distancing, masks, cleaning, ventilation, etc. However, these have all been implemented by many regions and also cruise lines, but with varied success.

 

Before his passing, I talked weekly with my dad, a resident of Scotland, which has a similar population to BC. We compared the Govt Health Orders and daily infections/deaths. Scotland had significantly higher levels of lockdown, but consistent had significantly higher (at times 10 times) daily infection/death rates. Why, with more layers of protection, did Scotland have more infections - Human Factors, which is the greatest risk when conducting risk analysis.

 

Using this analogy, I am having difficulty understanding why Viking is sticking to their previously announced Health & Safety Plan, comprising layers that are not proven to work effectively on other cruise ships (Seadream) and with mixed results shoreside.

 

Vaccinations have proven their effectiveness in countries that have a significant proportion of the population already vaccinated - see data from Ragnar above. I believe UK is seeing similar trends and even in Canada with lower vaccination rates, our deaths have dropped significantly. In December, when vaccinations were still unproven, I can accept that Viking had most likely reduced the risk to "ALARP" However, with vaccinations being proven effective, I no longer consider Viking's risk mitigation to be at "ALARP".

 

So why are Viking so against adding another layer of protection, especially when it is the layer proving to be most effective?

 

Well, I suggest Old Biddy has answered this question, where she was advised requiring vaccinations would result in a loss of pax. In my opinion this is prioritising marketing over safety.

 

After experiencing Viking's safety actions and treatment of the crew during the 2020 WC, we are hoping this is a temporary oversight. Therefore, although highly disappointed, we will keep an open mind until final payment is due for the 2023 WC. If they have not introduced another level of protection with mandatory vaccinations, we will cancel and will never again be aboard a Viking ship.

Before his passing, I talked weekly with my dad, a resident of Scotland, which has a similar population to BC.

 

Andy,

 

My condolences to the passing of your Dad.  I have read your entire blog and particularly liked the portion when you took your Dad to a Football match in a luxory box.  You may have mentioned his passing on a thread and I just missed it.  Distance is challenging when our parents pass on.

 

Best Thoughts

[Heidi13]

2 hours ago, PasadenaDave said:

Before his passing, I talked weekly with my dad, a resident of Scotland, which has a similar population to BC.

 

Andy,

 

My condolences to the passing of your Dad.  I have read your entire blog and particularly liked the portion when you took your Dad to a Football match in a luxory box.  You may have mentioned his passing on a thread and I just missed it.  Distance is challenging when our parents pass on.

 

Best Thoughts

 

Thanks for your message. Yes, that was a brilliant day out. After the 2020 WC, we had planned to take him to the football again, booking the same package. Sadly COVID cancelled those plans.

[JM0115]

7 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

Thanks for your message. Yes, that was a brilliant day out. After the 2020 WC, we had planned to take him to the football again, booking the same package. Sadly COVID cancelled those plans.

Andy, my condolences. Best Wishes, Jim

[Pushka]

On 3/17/2021 at 4:48 PM, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Like I mentioned on another thread, all existing vaccination certificates are easy to fake.  The cruise lines need governments, or accredited third parties, to provide secure methods of proving vaccination.  Otherwise its a waste of time and there WILL BE people coming aboard unvaccinated, using fake docs.  It’s just human nature, sadly.

Then they have to implement the ones that airlines will use. In Australia all immunisations are recorded in an Australian Govt website and can be seen on their app. 
 

And for the future I don't think cruise ships sailing out of Australia will be allowed in unless everyone is vaccinated. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Pushka

[CCWineLover]

3 minutes ago, Pushka said:

Then they have to implement the ones that airlines will use. In Australia all immunisations are recorded in an Australian Govt website and can be seen on their app. 

I certainly would hope that is what Viking would do.  And what hopefully the vaccination required cruise lines (I think at least 4 have announced that so far) will do.  Obviously a piece of paper means nothing.  But given the airlines have already been working on this, I would like to think it could be implemented by Viking.

As Jim Avery had so eloquently said on another forum, the real issue will be went anti-vaxers get COVID on a ship or bring it on board - and likely it will shut down the whole cruise.   I'm certain this will happen on some cruise line - just hoping that isn't Viking and hoping that isn't one we are on.

[Pushka]

3 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

likely it will shut down the whole cruise.   I'm certain this will happen on some cruise line - just hoping that isn't Viking and hoping that isn't one we are on

I'd say the cruise industry would be shut down for a while. It seems almost irrational of Viking to adopt this stance. 
 

Australia has been slow to vaccinate which has been due to supply. On the other hand we don't have community spread here, and only people developing it are those people in medi hotels returning from overseas. We don't have anyone in Australia in hospital with it. And Australia will protect that until most are vaccinated. I'm getting mine (Astra) on Monday. Only around 150,000 people vaccinated across Australia so far. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by Pushka

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

You can thank New York governor Cuomo for there being no U.S. vaccine passport ...

 

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/why-the-cdc-wants-the-names-and-birthdates-of-covid-19-vaccine-recipients#Data-request-precedent

 

[Heidi13]

37 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

I certainly would hope that is what Viking would do.  And what hopefully the vaccination required cruise lines (I think at least 4 have announced that so far) will do. 

 

So far, the cruise lines that have announcement mandatory vaccinations are:

• Saga
• Virgin
• P&O UK
• RCCL
• Celebrity
• Crystal

[CCWineLover]

6 minutes ago, Heidi13 said:

 

So far, the cruise lines that have announcement mandatory vaccinations are:

• Saga
• Virgin
• P&O UK
• RCCL
• Celebrity
• Crystal

Wow - thanks, Andy.

Seeing this in a list really hits home.  And shows where Viking stands.  Most of these are direct competition to Viking.

[Heidi13]

2 minutes ago, CCWineLover said:

Wow - thanks, Andy.

Seeing this in a list really hits home.  And shows where Viking stands.  Most of these are direct competition to Viking.

 

Affirmative, in the UK market, the only other non-mandatory cruise line at present is Fred Olsen. Cunard still haven't announced cruises, at least as of yesterday, but since they and P&O are part of Carnival UK, if P&O are mandatory, I would expect Cunard will be the same.

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

So far, the cruise lines that have announcement mandatory vaccinations are:

• Saga
• Virgin
• P&O UK
• RCCL
• Celebrity
• Crystal

Oops.... regarding RCCL:

 

“The seven-night cruises on Adventure of the Seas will be open to adult passengers and crew members fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and passengers under the age of 18 with a negative COVID-19 test.”

[TrulyBlonde]

14 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Oops.... regarding RCCL:

 

“The seven-night cruises on Adventure of the Seas will be open to adult passengers and crew members fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and passengers under the age of 18 with a negative COVID-19 test.”

Crystal also does not guarantee that all crew will be vaccinated.

[Heidi13]

14 hours ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said:

Oops.... regarding RCCL:

 

“The seven-night cruises on Adventure of the Seas will be open to adult passengers and crew members fully vaccinated against COVID-19 and passengers under the age of 18 with a negative COVID-19 test.”

 

Thanks Ragnar - did read about kids on RCCL but didn't think to add the qualification, with Saga (50+) and Vigin (18+) not being an issue. Princess have issued an almost identical message as P&O, stating all pax must be vaccinated, no mention of exemptions for under 18.

[Heidi13]

17 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Crystal also does not guarantee that all crew will be vaccinated.

 

Very few have stated the crew will be vaccinated, to the best of my knowledge. Last month, I read RCCL stated all crew will be vaccinated on their 3 brands and I recall NCL making a similar statement a couple of months ago.

 

It is changing daily, so I might be a little behind. 

[Mrs Miggins]

The host on the Azamara board is reporting that Viking picked up 80 crew members from Bodrum on its recent stop there.