Florida Looking to Push Back Against CDC

[VMax1700]

29 minutes ago, kangforpres said:

Florida's raw Covid-19 numbers for the last 4 days (New cases/deaths) According to Worldmeter

 

03-25                   03-26                    03-27                    03-28

5,773/101         5,750/158            5,883/42              4,943/38

 

The 03-28 numbers are Saturday stats reported on a Sunday. Florida is at a Plateau of caseload, like lots of states in the USA. Until these numbers come dramatically down no one is sailing from a Florida port before November 1.

 

-Paul

This is an interesting statistic to me over here in Europe.  When I read on these boards of people travelling from one end of the USA to the other;   going to hairdressers and beauticians, and meeting relatives I am stunned.  In Ireland (population about 5 million vs Florida pop about 21 million) we are continuing lockdown with new cases at the 600 per day level (120 per million) where as Florida is at about 240 per million.  We are not permitted to travel more than 5kms/3miles from home except for essential reasons.  Restaurants, hairdressers, barbers and non essential retail is all closed and will remain closed for another 4 to 6 weeks.  Even watching the WGC Matchplay I was amazed at how many people were either not wearing a mask or else they were 'chin breathers'.

[srpilo]

10 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

This is an interesting statistic to me over here in Europe.  When I read on these boards of people travelling from one end of the USA to the other;   going to hairdressers and beauticians, and meeting relatives I am stunned.  In Ireland (population about 5 million vs Florida pop about 21 million) we are continuing lockdown with new cases at the 600 per day level (120 per million) where as Florida is at about 240 per million.  We are not permitted to travel more than 5kms/3miles from home except for essential reasons.  Restaurants, hairdressers, barbers and non essential retail is all closed and will remain closed for another 4 to 6 weeks.  Even watching the WGC Matchplay I was amazed at how many people were either not wearing a mask or else they were 'chin breathers'.

 

And the sad part, with that strategy once you re-open in 4-6 more weeks without future vaccinations in 2 to 3 months your infection rates will be right back to where they are now.. 

While at risk populations will always need to sequester, if anything has come out of this pandemic it's that in general "lockdowns" are not a long term solution, and are not sustainable for any functioning society.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

I believe some, RCI for example are exempting those under 18.

 

Correct - 16 and 18 if no Pfizer, I believe.  Once vaccinations are approved for children and teens, I suspect proof of vaccination will be required.

[kazu]

1 hour ago, VMax1700 said:

This is an interesting statistic to me over here in Europe.  When I read on these boards of people travelling from one end of the USA to the other;   going to hairdressers and beauticians, and meeting relatives I am stunned.  In Ireland (population about 5 million vs Florida pop about 21 million) we are continuing lockdown with new cases at the 600 per day level (120 per million) where as Florida is at about 240 per million.  We are not permitted to travel more than 5kms/3miles from home except for essential reasons.  Restaurants, hairdressers, barbers and non essential retail is all closed and will remain closed for another 4 to 6 weeks.  Even watching the WGC Matchplay I was amazed at how many people were either not wearing a mask or else they were 'chin breathers'.

 

I too have been amazed at the ability of people in the USA to travel all over.

 

If we leave our province we must quarantine for 14 days.  We are not even allowed to travel to certain areas of the province depending on what code that zone or we are in (ie. code orange and code red).  

IF the Atlantic Bubble forms again, we will be permitted to travel there without quarantining but right now we have one zone in code red so until everyone is back in code yellow, I don’t know if that will happen. (Code green - which is basically normalcy will not happen until enough people have been vaccinated or the pandemic has been eradicated).

 

Our strategy seems to have worked.  We don’t even show on most covid reports.  Our case percentage of the population is something like .0004%

I bolded it just so you could see the decimal point 😉 

 

We are allowed to go to our hairdresser/barber shop, and most businesses are open as long as they abide by the covid 19 precautions and capacity is limited.

 

Most Maritimers are very compliant when it comes to health and coming together to protect each other so everyone is taking the precautions they should overall.

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

Correct - 16 and 18 if no Pfizer, I believe.  Once vaccinations are approved for children and teens, I suspect proof of vaccination will be required.

I keep asking what will the cruise do if/when some of those younger unvaccinated passengers get Covid.  I would want to know before I sail.

[Crazy For Cats]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

I too have been amazed at the ability of people in the USA to travel all over.

 

If we leave our province we must quarantine for 14 days.  We are not even allowed to travel to certain areas of the province depending on what code that zone or we are in (ie. code orange and code red).  

IF the Atlantic Bubble forms again, we will be permitted to travel there without quarantining but right now we have one zone in code red so until everyone is back in code yellow, I don’t know if that will happen. (Code green - which is basically normalcy will not happen until enough people have been vaccinated or the pandemic has been eradicated).

 

Our strategy seems to have worked.  We don’t even show on most covid reports.  Our case percentage of the population is something like .0004%

I bolded it just so you could see the decimal point 😉 

 

We are allowed to go to our hairdresser/barber shop, and most businesses are open as long as they abide by the covid 19 precautions and capacity is limited.

 

Most Maritimers are very compliant when it comes to health and coming together to protect each other so everyone is taking the precautions they should overall.

As a Massachusetts resident we were required to quarantine for two weeks or have a negative test before returning.  If you tested upon return you were to quarantine until the negative test result was confirmed.  There was a fine if you didn’t comply.  Last week it changed to an advisory.  If you have been fully vaccinated no requirements to test or quarantine.  

[Live4cruises]

To our Canadian and Irish friends,

Americans in general have always been essentially ungovernable!

[YXU AC*SE]

36 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

I keep asking what will the cruise do if/when some of those younger unvaccinated passengers get Covid.  I would want to know before I sail.

 

Excerpted from the CDC's Conditional Sail Order, which would apply until it's rescinded, or expires 01 November 2021, or, eek, is extended.  Note that 'threshold' is not defined in the order.   Sounds like fun !!   Scott. 

 

 

Source: 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

Edited March 29, 2021 by YXU AC*SE

[T8NCruise]

1 hour ago, kazu said:

 

I too have been amazed at the ability of people in the USA to travel all over.

 

If we leave our province we must quarantine for 14 days.  We are not even allowed to travel to certain areas of the province depending on what code that zone or we are in (ie. code orange and code red).  

IF the Atlantic Bubble forms again, we will be permitted to travel there without quarantining but right now we have one zone in code red so until everyone is back in code yellow, I don’t know if that will happen. (Code green - which is basically normalcy will not happen until enough people have been vaccinated or the pandemic has been eradicated).

 

Our strategy seems to have worked.  We don’t even show on most covid reports.  Our case percentage of the population is something like .0004%

I bolded it just so you could see the decimal point 😉 

 

We are allowed to go to our hairdresser/barber shop, and most businesses are open as long as they abide by the covid 19 precautions and capacity is limited.

 

Most Maritimers are very compliant when it comes to health and coming together to protect each other so everyone is taking the precautions they should overall.

Sadly not all Canadians follow the rules. We have license plates here in BC and especially on Vancouver Island from most provinces including the Maritimes.  Many have been camping through our milder winter.  It has been a source of concern for locals.

[KirkNC]

4 minutes ago, YXU AC*SE said:

 

Excerpted from the CDC's Conditional Sail Order, which would apply until it's rescinded, or expires 01 November 2021, or, eek, is extended.  Note that 'threshold' is not defined in the order.   Sounds like fun !!   Scott. 

 

 

Source: 

https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/CDC-Conditional-Sail-Order_10_30_2020-p.pdf

Yes, those are the rules for US sailing but what about these work around cruises home ported outside the US.  Sailings that have occurred already have used different solutions, I.e. isolation with continued sailing or canceling the cruise midstream.

[idiebabe]

4 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Yes, those are the rules for US sailing but what about these work around cruises home ported outside the US.  Sailings that have occurred already have used different solutions, I.e. isolation with continued sailing or canceling the cruise midstream.

Have you thought about checking RCL's Cruise Website?  It's all there in the FAQ Section.  Also, do you watch any Interviews with the various President's of the Cruise Lines?  You'll get many of your questions answered!

 

 

 

 

 

[kazu]

 

38 minutes ago, Crazy For Cats said:

As a Massachusetts resident we were required to quarantine for two weeks or have a negative test before returning.  If you tested upon return you were to quarantine until the negative test result was confirmed.  There was a fine if you didn’t comply.  Last week it changed to an advisory.  If you have been fully vaccinated no requirements to test or quarantine.  

 

Good protocols. Not having to quarantine if you are vaccinated makes sense.  There are too few of us right now vaccinated to make any rules 😢 

Our relative success has had a price.  We and PEI receive the lowest percentage of vaccine than the other provinces so we are still on those age 75 and up.  😔 

[kazu]

1 hour ago, KirkNC said:

I keep asking what will the cruise do if/when some of those younger unvaccinated passengers get Covid.  I would want to know before I sail.

 

Ditto.  I honestly have no desire to do the Caribbean & rush to cruising nor RCI or any ship where vaccination is not a requirement unless the arrangements are well laid out in the “what if” .

 

We do hope things improve enough in November to go especially if people are widely vaccinated but we are also prepared in the event it is not safe enough or enjoyable to travel.

 

 

 

 

[idiebabe]

8 minutes ago, kazu said:

 

 

There are too few of us right now vaccinated to make any rules 😢 

 

Hopefully, that will change for Canadians.  I heard on the News this morning that Biden is sending to Canada and Mexico the AstraZeneca Doses that our FDA won't give the "Emergency Use" approval for  here in the U.S.

 

My "open" State is now at the point of opening up Vaccinating 16 yrs and older on Wednesday and all three Vaccines are readily available (Pfizer, Moderna and J&J).

[kazu]

8 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

Hopefully, that will change for Canadians.  I heard on the News this morning that Biden is sending to Canada and Mexico the AstraZeneca Doses that our FDA won't give the "Emergency Use" approval for  here in the U.S.

 

Yes, it is being loaned to us. Hopefully it gets to the younger people so the older and immune compromised with pre-existing conditions can have the other.  There’s a lot of a hullabaloo today around the AZ vaccine by some provinces.

[idiebabe]

3 hours ago, VMax1700 said:

This is an interesting statistic to me over here in Europe.  When I read on these boards of people travelling from one end of the USA to the other;   going to hairdressers and beauticians, and meeting relatives I am stunned.  In Ireland (population about 5 million vs Florida pop about 21 million) we are continuing lockdown with new cases at the 600 per day level (120 per million) where as Florida is at about 240 per million.  We are not permitted to travel more than 5kms/3miles from home except for essential reasons.  Restaurants, hairdressers, barbers and non essential retail is all closed and will remain closed for another 4 to 6 weeks.  Even watching the WGC Matchplay I was amazed at how many people were either not wearing a mask or else they were 'chin breathers'.

Have you had your Vaccine?  My very good friend lives in Waterford.  She is extremely frustrated at the way your Government has handled this Virus especially when it comes to Vaccinations.  Her Daughter and Sister live in England and from what she told me the U.K.  was doing very good with Vaccinating.  She is now finally scheduled for it in mid-April.  She is 74 yrs old and a Cancer Survivor. She is also very depressed over the Lockdowns and "fed up with them" (her words).  She sneaked out to Tramore a week ago and took the back roads to avoid being stopped by the Police.  She is at her "wit's end with all these Lockdowns" and it's really been taking a toll on her mentally.  😢

 

 

[KirkNC]

37 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

Have you thought about checking RCL's Cruise Website?  It's all there in the FAQ Section.  Also, do you watch any Interviews with the various President's of the Cruise Lines?  You'll get many of your questions answered!

 

 

 

 

 

Good idea but here is their answer:

 

"In the event any of our guests or crew tests positive for SARS-CoV-2 onboard, we have a robust, tiered response plan in place that we've developed with guidance from local authorities and leading public health experts. The tiers increase protocols and vigilance onboard while providing transparent updates to guests the whole way. In partnership with local authorities, Royal Caribbean has developed transport protocols to ensure impacted guests get home safely. Thanks to rapid technology-enabled contact tracing, we'll also be able to promptly identify potential exposure to other guests and crew and enable an action plan."

 

"In the event that your cruise must return to the port of departure earlier than planned for reasons related to SARS-CoV-2, you will receive a refund or Future Cruise Credit of up to 100%. The amount of the refund or FCC will depend on the circumstances and the number of cruise days missed."

[idiebabe]

2 minutes ago, KirkNC said:

Good idea but here is their answer:

 

"In the event any of our guests or crew tests positive for SARS-CoV-2 onboard, we have a robust, tiered response plan in place that we've developed with guidance from local authorities and leading public health experts. The tiers increase protocols and vigilance onboard while providing transparent updates to guests the whole way. In partnership with local authorities, Royal Caribbean has developed transport protocols to ensure impacted guests get home safely. Thanks to rapid technology-enabled contact tracing, we'll also be able to promptly identify potential exposure to other guests and crew and enable an action plan."

 

"In the event that your cruise must return to the port of departure earlier than planned for reasons related to SARS-CoV-2, you will receive a refund or Future Cruise Credit of up to 100%. The amount of the refund or FCC will depend on the circumstances and the number of cruise days missed."

Did you see where they said that the Ship will return to Embark Port depending on threshold of cases Onboard? So, if there is a case or two Onboard it doesn't mean the Cruise will end.   Also, if anyone is found to have Covid they will be moved and Quarantined to Rooms closest to Medical, etc.   

 

In some of the Interviews with various Presidents they stated that they have plans in place if they have to have a Passenger transported off the Ship and have arrangements with Countries who will take them.  

 

 

[VMax1700]

13 minutes ago, idiebabe said:

Have you had your Vaccine?  My very good friend lives in Waterford.  She is extremely frustrated at the way your Government has handled this Virus especially when it comes to Vaccinations.  Her Daughter and Sister live in England and from what she told me the U.K.  was doing very good with Vaccinating.  She is now finally scheduled for it in mid-April.  She is 74 yrs old and a Cancer Survivor. She is also very depressed over the Lockdowns and "fed up with them" (her words).  She sneaked out to Tramore a week ago and took the back roads to avoid being stopped by the Police.  She is at her "wit's end with all these Lockdowns" and it's really been taking a toll on her mentally.  😢

 

 

Hi,  I have not have my shots yet, but Ellen had her first (Pfizer) shot on Saturday.  I expect it will be about two weeks until I get my first shot. We are both in the same age category, but she has precedence because she is just finished radiation therapy and is immunocompromised.

I understand your friend's frustration, but I feel that to blame just the government is over simplifying the situation as it is a multi facetted screw up.  There are at least 4 main reasons why the vax rollout has been compromised, 1. The EU was slow to place orders with the manufacturers. 2/ The EU was slower than others (USA/UK/Israel) to approve the vaccines. 3. The manufacturers did not delivery the amounts contracted (not entirely their fault as it is a difficult supply chain) 4. The government overpromised (based on the scheduled deliveries from the manufacturers which did not subsequently arrive) and people grasped at those promised dates as their salvation.

If I was close to Tramore, I would go there too!  My biggest complaint about how the government has handled the situation is that although the public are not permitted to travel more than 5kms, the airport have been open and the 'border' with N. Ireland has remained fully open, even when the infection rates in N. Ireland were substantially higher than in the South.  

The mental toll has been immense on us all, but spring is here, the weather is improving and we should be all able to get out and about in the coming months. 

[KirkNC]

1 hour ago, idiebabe said:

Did you see where they said that the Ship will return to Embark Port depending on threshold of cases Onboard? So, if there is a case or two Onboard it doesn't mean the Cruise will end.   Also, if anyone is found to have Covid they will be moved and Quarantined to Rooms closest to Medical, etc.   

 

In some of the Interviews with various Presidents they stated that they have plans in place if they have to have a Passenger transported off the Ship and have arrangements with Countries who will take them.  

 

 

To me the first paragraph is lots of words with little meaning.  I would sum it up to say “we have a plan, we will let you know”.  The second paragraph acknowledges they may have to cancel a cruise but you will be compensated, fair enough.

[idiebabe]

42 minutes ago, VMax1700 said:

Hi,  I have not have my shots yet, but Ellen had her first (Pfizer) shot on Saturday.  I expect it will be about two weeks until I get my first shot. We are both in the same age category, but she has precedence because she is just finished radiation therapy and is immunocompromised.

I understand your friend's frustration, but I feel that to blame just the government is over simplifying the situation as it is a multi facetted screw up.  There are at least 4 main reasons why the vax rollout has been compromised, 1. The EU was slow to place orders with the manufacturers. 2/ The EU was slower than others (USA/UK/Israel) to approve the vaccines. 3. The manufacturers did not delivery the amounts contracted (not entirely their fault as it is a difficult supply chain) 4. The government overpromised (based on the scheduled deliveries from the manufacturers which did not subsequently arrive) and people grasped at those promised dates as their salvation.

If I was close to Tramore, I would go there too!  My biggest complaint about how the government has handled the situation is that although the public are not permitted to travel more than 5kms, the airport have been open and the 'border' with N. Ireland has remained fully open, even when the infection rates in N. Ireland were substantially higher than in the South.  

The mental toll has been immense on us all, but spring is here, the weather is improving and we should be all able to get out and about in the coming months. 

Good to hear your Wife has had her 1st Dose.  Maria had gone through Chemo, Radiation and then had Immunotherapy and is now finally Cancer Free.  The last few years have been very hard on her and then Covid came on the scene and the Lockdowns.  Long Haul for her on an inoperable Tumor in the Lung (and not a Smoker).  Best wishes for Ellen for a full recovery!  

 

Thanks for explaining not only to me but to everyone here the issues with Europe regarding this Vaccine.   Yes, makes no sense that your Border is open with Northern Ireland when the South is in a Lockdown.  Right now, many of us have the same complaints about why our Southern Border was opened recently where 10% who are coming in are testing positive for Covid and then put on buses and Planes and travelling to all parts of the U.S.  

 

Stay safe!

[tallyho8]

21 hours ago, tallyho8 said:

Miami and Fort Lauderdale need to follow the lead of the Conch Republic in the Florida Keys and secede from the Union as they did about 40 years ago. Maybe this would bring enough attention to the situation these areas are facing with cruising being shut down.

 

Even if they are defeated or surrender, then they can apply for billions of dollars in foreign aid to help them with their dilemma. 

 

20 hours ago, nocl said:

Sounds like something from a Monty Python skit

 

Some seem to think this was a joke, but no, the Conch Republic really did secede. Read about it: Our Founding in 1982 | The Official Website of the Conch Republic

[nocl]

3 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Did you see where they said that the Ship will return to Embark Port depending on threshold of cases Onboard? So, if there is a case or two Onboard it doesn't mean the Cruise will end.   Also, if anyone is found to have Covid they will be moved and Quarantined to Rooms closest to Medical, etc.   

 

In some of the Interviews with various Presidents they stated that they have plans in place if they have to have a Passenger transported off the Ship and have arrangements with Countries who will take them.  

 

 

It does raise some questions - What is the threshold?  Will they notify passengers if a case is found?

Are the countries that will take them, the countries where someone would like to end up for quarantine and/or treatment.

 

Nice general statements but the devil is in the details so to speak.

[CruiserBruce]

3 hours ago, idiebabe said:

Hopefully, that will change for Canadians.  I heard on the News this morning that Biden is sending to Canada and Mexico the AstraZeneca Doses that our FDA won't give the "Emergency Use" approval for  here in the U.S.

 

My "open" State is now at the point of opening up Vaccinating 16 yrs and older on Wednesday and all three Vaccines are readily available (Pfizer, Moderna and J&J).

AstraZeneca HASN'T APPLIED for authorization in the US. CDC doesn't grant authorization if you don't apply.

 

However, AZ is approved in over 50 countries. And the issue Canada is now raising,  which hasn't even happened in Canada, was resolved 10 days ago in Europe. Maybe a bit late to the party...

[rkacruiser]

4 hours ago, Live4cruises said:

To our Canadian and Irish friends,

Americans in general have always been essentially ungovernable!

 

This is not so.  During WW II, the majority of Americans set aside their differences and accepted hardships such as rationing of basic commodities in order to defeat two threats to the survival of our way of life.

 

This has not happened during this pandemic.  Those who are reluctant to take the vaccine and to follow the proper protective health measures that have been well publicized are threats to the survival of our way of life for the rest of us.