Phase 2 CDC....Here We Go!

[beg3yrs]

35 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Or you take half the terminal for embarkation and half for disembarkation.  Temporary walls in between.

I was also thinking about the gangways. The fancy moveable gangways that go from the terminal to the Promenade deck could be used for embarkation and the lower level self-contained gangways that ships typically use in container ports could be used for disembarkation.

 

Was wondering if they could get around this by making arrangements to sanitize the gangways when switching from disembarkation to embarkation?

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

Ha, Ha!  I never saw any "KMA" post from you to anybody.  I was merely pointing out that I enjoy and appreciate our Q & A's and I appreciate your responses.  My A** kissing comment was in reference to the many others who have 'kissed the ring' instead.  I'm not there yet but I do enjoy and appreciate  your posts.  Stay safe and warm in Maine.

Apparently that post crossed a line, and it got deleted.  It was where I commented on how contact tracing doesn't work in the US, because in a simple situation like an airport restaurant or store, a contact tracing form contains many celebrities like Bob Vila (really upset I missed him by 5 minutes), Bono, and Alfred E. Neuman.  Currently on my ship in New Orleans.  Won't be home to Maine until mud season is over around June.

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, beg3yrs said:

I was also thinking about the gangways. The fancy moveable gangways that go from the terminal to the Promenade deck could be used for embarkation and the lower level self-contained gangways that ships typically use in container ports could be used for disembarkation.

 

Was wondering if they could get around this by making arrangements to sanitize the gangways when switching from disembarkation to embarkation?

That didn't seem likely to be a possibility from my reading.

[DAllenTCY]

If a ship were to disembark at one terminal and embark at another....has me thinking.

The security staff and ground services employees at Pier 1 could not work Pier 2. 

Longshoremen could not handle luggage at both.

In the meantime, who is to check on taxis, shuttles, ride shares?  

The prospect of cross contamination has not been resolved....and at the same time the cost of servicing one ship has doubled.

 

David

 

 

 

[beg3yrs]

In my mind one thing seems certain here. This document raises more questions than it answers.

[Musky Ike]

CDC = Clearly Dislikes Cruising

[SargassoPirate]

One thing to keep in mind is that the virus does not sprout wings and fly from contact surfaces up to your nose or mouth.  You must pick up the virus from a contact surface and manually transfer it to your nose or mouth.  

 

Most, if not all, of the extra cleaning so apparent nowadays is "theater" held over from the early days of the pandemic when science didn't have a handle on how it spread.

 

The easy way to prevent contact spread is to keep your hands and fingers out of your nose and mouth, and to use sanitizer just before you touch anything that is going into your mouth.

 

I do, however, like to see the extra cleaning with sanitizers on restaurant tables, and I hope that Princess no longer pre-sets the tables in the buffet or uses cloth napkins used by a previous diner to wipe off the table.  Yep, seen it on every cruise.  As well as removing "unused" tumblers and coffee cups and placing them with freshly washed cups and tumblers to be used on another table.  Yep, seen it on every cruise.

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, SargassoPirate said:

One thing to keep in mind is that the virus does not sprout wings and fly from contact surfaces up to your nose or mouth.  You must pick up the virus from a contact surface and manually transfer it to your nose or mouth.  

 

Most, if not all, of the extra cleaning so apparent nowadays is "theater" held over from the early days of the pandemic when science didn't have a handle on how it spread.

 

The easy way to prevent contact spread is to keep your hands and fingers out of your nose and mouth, and to use sanitizer just before you touch anything that is going into your mouth.

 

 

As the science evolved somehow the solutions have not. I still remember at the beginning that DW made me wipe down every grocery with Lysol wipes. (no wonder there was a shortage.) And what about the mail, how many people in the postal service touched it? I hope no one still feels compelled to do these things.

 

Now all the extra cleaning cannot be bad as there are other things it protects against, but let's not pretend the science still say that it is necessary for Covid protection.

 

I would add that the CDC requirement for different embarkation and disembarkation gangplanks and 12 hour turnarounds seems to me to be a reaction to the scientific knowledge as it was thought to be before it was learned that Covid transmission was airborne, not by surface contamination.

[Daniel A]

11 hours ago, beg3yrs said:

In my mind one thing seems certain here. This document raises more questions than it answers.

Indeed, but at least we now know what questions we need to ask.  That's progress too.

[Earthworm Jim]

On 4/2/2021 at 7:49 PM, matadams4u said:

Looks like vaccine and test requirements for passengers and crew are part of the directive.  I’m good with that.  

 

The vaccine part isn't required, just a recommendation:

 

To reduce spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, CDC recommends that cruise ship operators:

Explore options to vaccinate crew for COVID-19. This includes encouraging crew to get the COVID-19 vaccine when eligible and the vaccine is available.

 

and...

 

CDC recommends that all eligible port personnel and travelers (passengers and crew) get a COVID-19 vaccine when one is available to them.

[broberts]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

I would add that the CDC requirement for different embarkation and disembarkation gangplanks and 12 hour turnarounds seems to me to be a reaction to the scientific knowledge as it was thought to be before it was learned that Covid transmission was airborne, not by surface contamination.

 

Perhaps CDC was also thinking about other infectious pathogens like Norovirus.

[stevenr597]

18 hours ago, MarkBearSF said:

Actually, all of their statements are reasonable.
- Yes, there's a surge happening and she expressed a personal fear about it.
- Yes, it's encouraging that amidst this, vaccinations are picking up
- Yes, she stated that it's MOST LIKELY that vaccinated people don't transmit, as evidenced by the report that was published the day before.
- Yes, the CDC reinforced their cautious approach that there is NO PROOF that vaccinated people can not (under any circumstances) get infected. While the study cited in her account provides good evidence, it was not definitive, and therefore there was no official CDC reversal of their previous advice.

All of the points follow "the science"

 

When you contradict yourself on a daily basis, one can reasonably assume that you are not having a good week. 

 

[Daniel A]

7 minutes ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

The vaccine part isn't required, just a recommendation:

 

To reduce spread of SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19, CDC recommends that cruise ship operators:

Explore options to vaccinate crew for COVID-19. This includes encouraging crew to get the COVID-19 vaccine when eligible and the vaccine is available.

 

and...

 

CDC recommends that all eligible port personnel and travelers (passengers and crew) get a COVID-19 vaccine when one is available to them.

Yes and no.  CDC cannot mandate individuals be vaccinated.  Employers can impose consequences for refusing the vaccine.  (Especially in international waters.)  Reading between the lines, "Explore options to vaccinate crew for COVID-19. This includes encouraging crew to get the COVID-19 vaccine when eligible and the vaccine is available."  may mean encouragement through making it a requirement to keep your job on a cruise ship.  Same with port personnel (although I would expect strong pushback from the unions.)

 

I'm not saying this is in fact, the case but it looks to me that CDC is saying if the workers are properly "encouraged" it will be easier to get a Conditional Sailing Certificate.  Just my opinion.

[beg3yrs]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

.....

I would add that the CDC requirement for different embarkation and disembarkation gangplanks and 12 hour turnarounds seems to me to be a reaction to the scientific knowledge as it was thought to be before it was learned that Covid transmission was airborne, not by surface contamination.

Completely agree. Many of these requirements need to be challenged with respect to current knowledge.

[Woobstr112G]

Some of the phase 2A guidelines are absolutely absurd. It is absolutely pathetic what they are doing. One point says embarking & disembarking passengers cannot occupy the same terminal within a 12 hour period. The CDC is doing their absolute best to destroy cruising in the USA.  
 

Bob

[Daniel A]

3 minutes ago, Woobstr112G said:

Some of the phase 2A guidelines are absolutely absurd. It is absolutely pathetic what they are doing. One point says embarking & disembarking passengers cannot occupy the same terminal within a 12 hour period. The CDC is doing their absolute best to destroy cruising in the USA.  
 

Bob

I am by no means a supporter of a lot of what the CDC has done, but I think all of these 'issues' currently relate to what is required for the cruise line to start the simulated (trial) cruises.  The 12 hour turn around times don't pose a huge problem when the cruise passengers are non-paying volunteers.  I don't believe these requirements are being mandated for final approvals to full restarts of cruising.  (I don't think even the CDC knows what they'll want to see after the completion of Phase 2B.)

[Earthworm Jim]

27 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I'm not saying this is in fact, the case but it looks to me that CDC is saying if the workers are properly "encouraged" it will be easier to get a Conditional Sailing Certificate.  Just my opinion.

 

And, under your theory, the same would apply to passengers? The CDC wants the cruise lines to require vaccinations of passengers to get the certificate, but they don't want to be the one to say it's a requirement?

 

If so there's going to be a butting of heads between what the CDC wants and Florida's new vaccine passport executive order. But those two butting heads is nothing new I guess.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Earthworm Jim

[Daniel A]

1 minute ago, Earthworm Jim said:

 

And, under your theory, the same would apply to passengers? The CDC wants the cruise lines to require vaccinations of passengers to get the certificate, but they don't want to be the one to say it's a requirement?

 

If so there's going to be a butting of heads between what the CDC want and Florida's new vaccine passport executive order.

That passport executive order will have expired by the time cruising restarts in earnest.  After that, it will be up to the Florida legislature to figure out.  Between the lobbyists for Disney, CLIA and the airline industry,  I would imagine some tempering and exemptions will factor in to any final legislation (if anything passes at all.)

 

Airline industry launching vaccine passport iOS app | AppleInsider

 

 

[ipeeinthepool]

This is the CDC's version of the four-corner offense, before there was a shot clock.  At this point the cruise lines don't have a shot shot clock, so they will just have t wait until November to resume cruising.

[Daniel A]

4 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

This is the CDC's version of the four-corner offense, before there was a shot clock.  At this point the cruise lines don't have a shot shot clock, so they will just have t wait until November to resume cruising.

Nothing is preventing them from extending that order beyond November either.  😒

[voljeep]

7 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

This is the CDC's version of the four-corner offense, before there was a shot clock.  At this point the cruise lines don't have a shot shot clock, so they will just have t wait until November to resume cruising.

the cruise lines most definitely have shot clock(s) aka Board of Directors / Shareholders / Creditors

 

how are things in Michigan - current Covid capitol of the USA ? - any new mandates ?

[ipeeinthepool]

5 minutes ago, voljeep said:

the cruise lines most definitely have shot clock(s) aka Board of Directors / Shareholders / Creditors

 

how are things in Michigan - current Covid capitol of the USA ? - any new mandates ?

 

Things in Michigan are just fine and is a good example of learning how to live with the virus.  Most of the elderly and vulnerable have been vaccinated and the death rate is way down.  Mandates don't really help, look at Florida, Texas vs New Jersey or Europe.   The spread in Michigan is largely from school children spreading it in extracurricular activities and then infecting people at home.  No amount of restaurant closings or other restrictions will help that.  Protect yourself and don't worry about trying to control others. 

[voljeep]

13 minutes ago, ipeeinthepool said:

Protect yourself and don't worry about trying to control others.

8 weeks+ past 2nd shot (Pfizer) - still wearing masks when we do happen to go out - which isn't very often these days

 

stay safe 😷

[broberts]

1 hour ago, Woobstr112G said:

Some of the phase 2A guidelines are absolutely absurd. It is absolutely pathetic what they are doing. One point says embarking & disembarking passengers cannot occupy the same terminal within a 12 hour period. The CDC is doing their absolute best to destroy cruising in the USA.  
 

Bob

 

Since that requirement is trivial to implement I don't see how any rational analysis can suggest the requirement as an attempt to destroy cruising.

[GonzoWCS]

On 4/3/2021 at 6:19 AM, SargassoPirate said:

All of this, but it's OK to pack people cheek to jowl in a flying metal tube for 5, 6,7, or more hours.

 

 

Dig it!