Del Rio Mandates Vax

[TrulyBlonde]

7 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

What is they say, "the best defense is a good offense..."  🙂

I am sure that RCL and CCL are watching closely and ready to hit them with their chess move, too. Del Rio most certainly has all of his ducks in a row and FL backing prior to this announcement.

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by TrulyBlonde

[Daniel A]

2 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I am sure that RCL and CCL are watching closely and ready to hit them with their chess move, too. Del Rio most certainly has all of his ducks in a row and FL backing prior to this announcement.

He may not be able to sail those out of Florida unless DeSantis tempers his executive order on vaccination requirements for businesses.  

[marieps]

Why do I get the feeling none of this was done in a vacuum.  I would not be surprised if the CDC was quietly aware this letter was coming and would be released, and may have even been consulted first.  I find no hint of animus at all in the letter.  The antithesis of the Governor of Florida's approach.  

 

In the end, I feel hopeful that CDC will lift the CSO before November, if not by July 1.

[TrulyBlonde]

1 minute ago, Daniel A said:

He may not be able to sail those out of Florida unless DeSantis tempers his executive order on vaccination requirements for businesses.  

My money would be on Del Rio and I like DeSantis. I think you are an attorney and know damn well those negotiations have been in the works?

[marieps]

2 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

He may not be able to sail those out of Florida unless DeSantis tempers his executive order on vaccination requirements for businesses.  

A cruise line is a foreign entity, not a "Florida" business.  I think they have an out, and the Gov knows it.

[Daniel A]

Just now, marieps said:

A cruise line is a foreign entity, not a "Florida" business.  I think they have an out, and the Gov knows it.

I hope so.  🙁

[TrulyBlonde]

15 minutes ago, marieps said:

A cruise line is a foreign entity, not a "Florida" business.  I think they have an out, and the Gov knows it.

NCLH is domiciled in Bermuda. Above my pay grade but would make sense.

[pinotlover]

44 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I agree that a final verdict would be a long way off, but as soon as a suit is filed they can request the court to issue an injunction while the case plays out in court.  There would be a hearing to examine the CDC's rationale for blocking the cruising and the cruise line gets to show where the CDC rules aren't supported by even their own evidence.  The court could then bar the Federal Government from banning cruises while the case plays out.  By then (hopefully) the pandemic will have ended making the whole case moot.

Daniel;

 

In an earlier life , I had plenty of experience in these matters with the EPA and State Health Departments. Even though what you said sounds practical, and even appeasing, truth is it’s extremely rare that a previous Political Science or Art History major Judge will issue an injunction and set aside a technical ruling by a government Agency, especially where health and safety are involved. They’ll error on the side of safety and let the case play out, making the court review hundreds of pages of technical data. Just not a winnable strategy for the cruise lines, their pockets aren’t deep enough.

 

Good PR move, granted. Cruising in US waters will only start  back soon again, when the guy in the Oval Office says it will. Persuading him it’s time can make it happen more quickly than the courts via well executed OR strategies.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, Daniel A said:

He may not be able to sail those out of Florida unless DeSantis tempers his executive order on vaccination requirements for businesses.  

 

57 minutes ago, marieps said:

A cruise line is a foreign entity, not a "Florida" business.  I think they have an out, and the Gov knows it.

 

56 minutes ago, Daniel A said:

I hope so.  🙁

 

40 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

NCLH is domiciled in Bermuda. Above my pay grade but would make sense.

The commerce clause of the Constitution gives the federal government the authority over commerce with foreign nations as well as interstate commerce.

 

As has already been pointed out NCLH is incorporated in Bermuda, Further all NCLH ships with the exception of Pride of America are flagged in foreign countries and with  the exception of POA all are  engaged in foreign and interstate commerce.

 

As a result it is a federal agency, the CDC, that has been designated by Congress as being responsible for health and safety regulations aboard these ships, not any state.

 

Any attempt by Florida to enforce this executive order on NCLH ship operations will likely be dead in the water...literally and figuratively .

[TrulyBlonde]

18 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

 

 

 

As a result it is a federal agency, the CDC, that has been designated by Congress as being responsible for health and safety regulations aboard these ships, not any state.

 

Any attempt by Florida to enforce this executive order on NCLH ship operations will likely be dead in the water...literally and figuratively .

Here is a question I have. I just saw on the news today that Dr. Fauci has stated that he does not believe that the Federal Gov't will mandate a vaccination passport. If true, how will this apply? thanks

[marieps]

19 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

 

 

 

The commerce clause of the Constitution gives the federal government the authority over commerce with foreign nations as well as interstate commerce.

 

As has already been pointed out NCLH is incorporated in Bermuda, Further all NCLH ships with the exception of Pride of America are flagged in foreign countries and with  the exception of POA all are  engaged in foreign and interstate commerce.

 

As a result it is a federal agency, the CDC, that has been designated by Congress as being responsible for health and safety regulations aboard these ships, not any state.

 

Any attempt by Florida to enforce this executive order on NCLH ship operations will likely be dead in the water...literally and figuratively .

This is well reasoned.  Could it be expanded to argue against Key West's edict against large cruise ships in its port.  Might that also be considered international commerce, and thus the purview of the federal gov't? 

[marieps]

1 minute ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Here is a question I have. I just saw on the news today that Dr. Fauci has stated that he does not believe that the Federal Gov't will mandate a vaccination passport. If true, how will this apply? thanks

I'd say NCLH, not the government, would be mandating vax proof.  There no way the feds can mandate such a passport while the vax is under an EUA, as has been mentioned earlier.

[TrulyBlonde]

1 minute ago, marieps said:

I'd say NCLH, not the government, would be mandating vax proof.  There no way the feds can mandate such a passport while the vax is under an EUA, as has been mentioned earlier.

Yes, a passport and proof could be two different things. My proof is my white card and the one that says I had Pfizer vaccine. That may be all that the cruise lines require. 

[marieps]

2 minutes ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Yes, a passport and proof could be two different things. My proof is my white card and the one that says I had Pfizer vaccine. That may be all that the cruise lines require. 

Totally agree that a passport and "proof are different issues.  I certainly hope my CDC card will be enough.   As an aside, may I ask to what "ZG" refers? 

Edited April 5, 2021 by marieps

[TrulyBlonde]

2 minutes ago, marieps said:

Totally agree that a passport and "proof are different issues.  I certainly hope my CDC card will be enough.   As an aside, may I ask to what "ZG" refers? 

I live in Aspen and ZG is the code that has been around for years. Those license plates with ZG on it are gold. Can't get them anymore 😞. Yes, I hope my vax card is enough too.

[marieps]

1 minute ago, TrulyBlonde said:

I live in Aspen and ZG is the code that has been around for years. Those license plates with ZG on it are gold. Can't get them anymore 😞. Yes, I hope my vax card is enough too.

Ah..  Life's nuances.  Thanks for answering.

[Lorna Doone]

I am so happy that vaccines will be required.  I will feel must safer on our Dec Oceania cruise knowing that everyone on the ship has been vaccinated.  NCL got it right.  Now hopefully, Oceania can resume cruising ASAP.

[njhorseman]

1 hour ago, marieps said:

This is well reasoned.  Could it be expanded to argue against Key West's edict against large cruise ships in its port.  Might that also be considered international commerce, and thus the purview of the federal gov't? 

I think that's more an issue of state versus local government as it just affects a commercial activity within the state, as opposed to the COVID passport issue which is clearly a health matter that falls under the federal government's jurisdiction and which might interfere with the cruise lines' rights to engage in foreign commerce.

[azdrydock]

Good move

Thera are about a dozen ports between NY and FLA that have the connectivity and logistics to handle this summers cruise traffic with minimal disruption. Maybe DeSantis could celebrate his no vax victory as the ships pass by. Don't know if the out of work Fla longshoremen will join in. 

[1985rz1]

We shouldn't forget the mandated vax policy for passengers only applies to cruises from/to the US.

[njhorseman]

17 minutes ago, 1985rz1 said:

We shouldn't forget the mandated vax policy for passengers only applies to cruises from/to the US.

Since a number of other cruise lines have announced a vaccine mandate for their non-US cruises it's certainly possible...perhaps even likely...that NCLH  will also require vaccination for their non-US itineraries.

Edited April 6, 2021 by njhorseman

[clo]

4 hours ago, TrulyBlonde said:

Yes, a passport and proof could be two different things. My proof is my white card and the one that says I had Pfizer vaccine. That may be all that the cruise lines require. 

Since there's already evidence that counterfeit ones are easily available. So for those who are desperate to cruise may also be desperate to go that route. Now that would **** me off.

[1985rz1]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Since a number of other cruise lines have announced a vaccine mandate for their non-US cruises it's certainly possible...perhaps even likely...that NCLH  will also require vaccination for their non-US itineraries.

That's my hope.

[Flatbush Flyer]

1 hour ago, 1985rz1 said:

We shouldn't forget the mandated vax policy for passengers only applies to cruises from/to the US.

Sorry but that’s not the case.

 

As it says on the front page of the doc, “SailSafe” is NCLH’s global program and, at least for the immediate future, it includes a mandate that  “All guests and crew must be fully vaccinated, at least 2 weeks prior to embarkation, in order to board.”

This is not unlike O’s passport requirement for “all guests on all itineraries” (regardless of any particular country’s requirements).

[LHT28]

1 hour ago, 1985rz1 said:

We shouldn't forget the mandated vax policy for passengers only applies to cruises from/to the US.

Do you mean NCLH is only requiring Vax  for US departures??

 

Seems  a bit strange that it will not be a  requirement for all cruises