Florida sues to reopen cruise ports

[harkinmr]

9 hours ago, nocl said:

Unfortunately there is no clarity on what the cruise lines will require when they restart in the US. 

 

Spokesman from CCL and RCL have stated that it is uncertain if vaccinations will be required when cruises restart from the US.  That it depends upon what CDC requires, but CDC cannot require them with the current EUA status, only recommend

 

De Santis is saying that his rules does apply to cruises leaving from Florida, though legal experts disagree.

 

the following article references the coments from the cruise lines

 

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/business/fl-bz-silversea-cruises-to-require-vaccinations-20210412-7ok6fwabpndc5aop6oyla5tgvq-story.html

 

DeSantis has no legal authority to prevent the cruise lines from requiring vaccines.  He knows that.  He's just playing to his political base.  On the one hand he sues to open cruising purporting to care about business losses in Florida, but then turns around and sticks a pin in it by saying he will not allow cruise lines to require vaccines to restart.  He can't seem to get out of his own way.  And I'm trying to be kind here.

[Homosassa]

I also do not believe that the Florida Governor can stop cruise lines from requiring proof of vaccination for boarding a ship.

 

All his screaming is about  government issued "vaccination passports," not a private citizen voluntarily providing vaccination information As others have mentioned, the posturing is more about political appeal to a small segment of the population.

 

I am putting my money where my mouth is and telling my travel agent today to make final payment on a cruise leaving from Miami the last week in July. (Yes, I have taken into consideration the cruise lines policy in cancellations, future cruise credit and refunds).

[Mike981]

15 hours ago, D C said:

To which rules are you referring?  

 

You know little things like keeping kids out of adult areas and chair hogging.

[D C]

1 hour ago, K.T.B. said:

 

Could, but it wouldn't logistically work.  Florida has 5 cities that have ports the cruises use.  In those cities that have, IIRC, at least 3 piers from which cruise ships dock.  No other state could handle it without some major renovations.

Most cruises embark on Sat/Sun.  Could make do with fewer piers if that were spread out across the rest of the week.

[grandgeezer]

55 minutes ago, D C said:

Most cruises embark on Sat/Sun.  Could make do with fewer piers if that were spread out across the rest of the week.

I guessing that most cruises embark on Sat/Sun to coincide with peoples vacations. Every place I worked vacations ran from Monday through Sunday, though you could use one week a day at a time. 

[D C]

1 minute ago, grandgeezer said:

I guessing that most cruises embark on Sat/Sun to coincide with peoples vacations. Every place I worked vacations ran from Monday through Sunday, though you could use one week a day at a time. 

Oh for sure.  But it's an option to move more ships though fewer terminals.   

 

[Fouremco]

25 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

I guessing that most cruises embark on Sat/Sun to coincide with peoples vacations. Every place I worked vacations ran from Monday through Sunday, though you could use one week a day at a time. 

A good number of cruises out of Florida do not run on a 7-night cycle or multiple of 7 nights coinciding with a weekend. For example, Celebrity reduced its 14-night Southern Caribbean cruises to 12 nights a few years ago, and alternate them with 9-night cruises, so lots of weekday embarkations. COVID aside, I don't think that Celebrity or other lines have lost passengers because of weekday starts.

[Ken the cruiser]

Looks like the Florida senators and one from Alaska have decided to take the congressional approach to help get cruises started back up in July.

 

Senators Introduce Bill Allowing To Restart Cruising by July 4 - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

[nocl]

31 minutes ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Looks like the Florida senators and one from Alaska have decided to take the congressional approach to help get cruises started back up in July.

 

Senators Introduce Bill Allowing To Restart Cruising by July 4 - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

Isn't this the same as they proposed last year.  To replace the CDC's authority over cruise lines with a joint committee.  Did not go anywhere when they proposed it last year.

[K.T.B.]

Well, if anyone thought that cruise lines couldn't make it a requirement to be vaccinated, legal experts say that can:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/can-businesses-require-vaccination-proof-experts-say-yes/

[grandgeezer]

It appears that RCL just announced that all passengers and crew must be properly vaccinated before getting on one of their ships. 

I would like them to announce that since the governor of Florida says that they can't do it, they will immediately start to move all their ships out of the state. See if he blinks.

[Ken the cruiser]

36 minutes ago, nocl said:

Isn't this the same as they proposed last year.  To replace the CDC's authority over cruise lines with a joint committee.  Did not go anywhere when they proposed it last year.

At least they're consistent. 🙂

[Ken the cruiser]

27 minutes ago, grandgeezer said:

It appears that RCL just announced that all passengers and crew must be properly vaccinated before getting on one of their ships. 

I would like them to announce that since the governor of Florida says that they can't do it, they will immediately start to move all their ships out of the state. See if he blinks.

Who it be possible for you to provide the link where you read this? The best I can find is a response to a FAQ on the RCCL web site which says: 

 

At this time, we are requiring guests 18 years and older to be fully vaccinated for COVID-19, along with all crew members onboard.

 

It also adds this qualifier at the bottom of the answer:

 

At this time, our guest vaccination requirements apply to sailings departing from Israel, Bahamas, Bermuda, and Cyprus. We continue to work with local health authorities and our Healthy Sail Panel on the necessary protocols for all other sailings, and will keep guests informed of any changes.

[markeb]

1 hour ago, Ken the cruiser said:

Looks like the Florida senators and one from Alaska have decided to take the congressional approach to help get cruises started back up in July.

 

Senators Introduce Bill Allowing To Restart Cruising by July 4 - Cruise Industry News | Cruise News

 

Other than requiring the CDC to rescind their order (not going to pass the House), everything else mentioned here is already in the January 21st Executive Order. So no actual change, and we'll know what comes out of the existing Interagency process that's already going on long before this would even get a hearing.

 

Macbeth, Act 5, scene 5

 

So they couldn't even get Sen Murkowski to join this? The second Senator from Alaska?

 

Blazing Saddles. I'd post the YouTube, but it's too politically incorrect, and has language issues. Harrumph.

[harkinmr]

15 minutes ago, markeb said:

 

Other than requiring the CDC to rescind their order (not going to pass the House), everything else mentioned here is already in the January 21st Executive Order. So no actual change, and we'll know what comes out of the existing Interagency process that's already going on long before this would even get a hearing.

 

Macbeth, Act 5, scene 5

 

So they couldn't even get Sen Murkowski to join this? The second Senator from Alaska?

 

Blazing Saddles. I'd post the YouTube, but it's too politically incorrect, and has language issues. Harrumph.

Naturally.  It just looks good politically for the Senators involved.  It ends up being a headline (not always entirely accurate) and few people read beyond the headline.  But, hey, it allows people to get a little excited (baselessly or not).  It's just sad when reality hits again.

[Ride-The-Waves]

The largest ports on the US east coast are, in order:

 

- Ports of New York and New Jersey

- Port of Savannah

- Port of Virginia

- Port of Charleston

 

They could easily replace the ones in Florida.  Especially considering that cruise passenger traffic will be probably less than 30 percent of pre-covid levels for at least a year or more.

[NMTraveller]

1 minute ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

The largest ports on the US east coast are, in order:

 

- Ports of New York and New Jersey

- Port of Savannah

- Port of Virginia

- Port of Charleston

 

They could easily replace the ones in Florida.  Especially considering that cruise passenger traffic will be probably less than 30 percent of pre-covid levels for at least a year or more.

I have been on a cruise from NY/NJ to the Carribean and never again.  Way too many sea days.

[mom says]

1 hour ago, Ride-The-Waves said:

The largest ports on the US east coast are, in order:

 

- Ports of New York and New Jersey

- Port of Savannah

- Port of Virginia

- Port of Charleston

 

They could easily replace the ones in Florida.  Especially considering that cruise passenger traffic will be probably less than 30 percent of pre-covid levels for at least a year or more.

Port size is one thing. Are they primarily cargo ports? Having enough passenger terminals is another thing altogether.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

I have sat and read all the above.  Basically it comes down to the big question...if the cruise lines declare that all passengers must be vaccinated and the CDC continues to deny cruising.  Does this mean that the government does not believe the vaccines are effective???  I almost wish just one cruise ship would step up to bat and dock in Florida to take on passengers who have received the vaccines.  The CDC could halt the cruise and a court would have to decide if the vaccine really works.  If the vaccines are judged to be effective then cruising should commence.  Those pax who want to cruise may do so at their own risk and those who want iron clad guarantees can stay home.  

[nocl]

12 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I have sat and read all the above.  Basically it comes down to the big question...if the cruise lines declare that all passengers must be vaccinated and the CDC continues to deny cruising.  Does this mean that the government does not believe the vaccines are effective???  I almost wish just one cruise ship would step up to bat and dock in Florida to take on passengers who have received the vaccines.  The CDC could halt the cruise and a court would have to decide if the vaccine really works.  If the vaccines are judged to be effective then cruising should commence.  Those pax who want to cruise may do so at their own risk and those who want iron clad guarantees can stay home.  

A couple of points

 

1. The cruise lines have not submitted a plan to the CDC indicating that all passengers will be vaccinated so there is nothing for CDC to act on.  

 

2. If a cruise line did not and ignore the order the enforcement arm is the Coast Guard.  I doubt they would be successful.

[grandgeezer]

14 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

I have sat and read all the above.  Basically it comes down to the big question...if the cruise lines declare that all passengers must be vaccinated and the CDC continues to deny cruising.  Does this mean that the government does not believe the vaccines are effective???  I almost wish just one cruise ship would step up to bat and dock in Florida to take on passengers who have received the vaccines.  The CDC could halt the cruise and a court would have to decide if the vaccine really works.  If the vaccines are judged to be effective then cruising should commence.  Those pax who want to cruise may do so at their own risk and those who want iron clad guarantees can stay home.  

The court would have no say if the vaccine really works, they would judge the incident of the ship docking and attempting to take on passengers. It would be such a blatant disregard of the order, I doubt a competent judge would even hear it. This would be the height of desperation, and I can’t believe the line would be naive enough to try it.

[Jeremiah1212]

20 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:I have sat and read all the above.  Basically it comes down to the big question...if the cruise lines declare that all passengers must be vaccinated and the CDC continues to deny cruising.  Does this mean that the government does not believe the vaccines are effective???  I almost wish just one cruise ship would step up to bat and dock in Florida to take on passengers who have received the vaccines.  The CDC could halt the cruise and a court would have to decide if the vaccine really works.  If the vaccines are judged to be effective then cruising should commence.  Those pax who want to cruise may do so at their own risk and those who want iron clad guarantees can stay home.  

I don’t think you can jump to the conclusion the government simply thinks vaccines are ineffective. There are a number of questions that there are no answers to yet. The vaccine conversation seems to be going hand in hand with eliminating the CSO which I think is very unlikely. You could say NCL has done the closest thing to taking a stance, but as far as I’m aware they only did it through an open letter rather than an actual proposal as requested by the CDC. There’s zero chance of them telling the CDC they will do 100% vaccinated cruises then being able to change their mind at the last minute. 

[CGTNORMANDIE]

34 minutes ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

I don’t think you can jump to the conclusion the government simply thinks vaccines are ineffective. There are a number of questions that there are no answers to yet. The vaccine conversation seems to be going hand in hand with eliminating the CSO which I think is very unlikely. You could say NCL has done the closest thing to taking a stance, but as far as I’m aware they only did it through an open letter rather than an actual proposal as requested by the CDC. There’s zero chance of them telling the CDC they will do 100% vaccinated cruises then being able to change their mind at the last minute. 

My proposition was purely hypothetical.  My point is at some point the CDC has to stand behind the efficacy of the vaccines.  Once that is affirmed then cruising should commence.  Even the CDC does not have the right to shut down cruising indefinitely.  It seems apparent that the CDC needs to come up with a plan as well.  This is turning into an old fashioned standoff. One side is waiting for the other to blink.

Edited April 14, 2021 by CGTNORMANDIE

[markeb]

6 minutes ago, CGTNORMANDIE said:

My proposition was purely hypothetical.  My point is at some point the CDC has to stand behind the efficacy of the vaccines.  Once that is affirmed then cruising should commence.  Even the CDC does not have the right to shut down cruising indefinitely.  It seems apparent that the CDC needs to come up with a plan as well.  This is turning into an old fashioned standoff. One side is waiting for the other to blink.

No. One side has proposed its next step to the White House COVID coordinator as they were required by an executive order issued in January and has been mentioned several times. The same order required coordination of actions across multiple government departments. And at that level there is a stated priority for vaccine distribution and public health controls for 100 days. Which is about the end of April, which is the earliest I’d expect any announcements. Primarily from the COVID Coordinator. Normal order. 
 

The other parties appear to have done nothing but send out press releases complaining. 

[K.T.B.]

2 hours ago, mom says said:

Port size is one thing. Are they primarily cargo ports? Having enough passenger terminals is another thing altogether.

 

Bingo.